- May 23, 2015
- 24,405
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- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Says the guy that lives in New Jersey’s where everything is jug-handle and left turns are prohibited…
Variable Speed Pumps Maximum Speed.
- Thread starter JamesW
- Start date
Says the guy that lives in New Jersey’s where everything is jug-handle and left turns are prohibited…
- Jul 21, 2013
- 52,475
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- 35000
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- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
And then roundabouts became progress in roadway engineering over intersections with traffic lights or 4 way stop signs.
And, they don't let you pump your own gas.
I can't figure that one out.
I don't think they will ever open a Buc-ee's there.
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- Jul 21, 2013
- 52,475
- Pool Size
- 35000
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0-60 in 2.5 secs…
The Chevy Corvette E-Ray Is a Hybrid and the Quickest Vette Ever
Electrification and eAWD have officially entered the Corvette world.
www.roadandtrack.com
- May 23, 2015
- 24,405
- Pool Size
- 16000
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- Plaster
- Chlorine
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- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
They redid a road here that cuts up through a canyon and added a roundabout at the top where it comes into a shopping area. It’s hilarious to watch the locals, they have no idea how they work. People stopping in the roundabout to let other cars get on
- Jul 21, 2013
- 52,475
- Pool Size
- 35000
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- Plaster
- Chlorine
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- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Overall, it really comes down to the system curve and where you want your operating points to be, so there is no one pump that is right for every situation.
Only when you have a system curve with defined operating point can you choose the best pump for your application.
In my opinion, there will be some applications where a lower top speed with a larger impeller will be a better choice than a 3,450 RPM top speed and the standard impeller.
You have to graph the pump curves on the system curves and see which best fits the purpose.
If you can meet the operational needs with a lower RPM/larger impeller, that can make a difference in the amount of noise that the pump makes.
Only when you have a system curve with defined operating point can you choose the best pump for your application.
In my opinion, there will be some applications where a lower top speed with a larger impeller will be a better choice than a 3,450 RPM top speed and the standard impeller.
You have to graph the pump curves on the system curves and see which best fits the purpose.
If you can meet the operational needs with a lower RPM/larger impeller, that can make a difference in the amount of noise that the pump makes.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 52,475
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
They redid a road here that cuts up through a canyon and added a roundabout at the top where it comes into a shopping area. It’s hilarious to watch the locals, they have no idea how they work. People stopping in the roundabout to let other cars get on
This is not intuitive?
- May 23, 2015
- 24,405
- Pool Size
- 16000
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- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
This is not intuitive?
Around here the nice old lady or gentlemen in his beat up 70’s Ford truck is the yellow car stopping at the entry points to politely let the blue come on in …
You have to calculate the acceleration based on your velocity and the curvature of the roundabout to determine the centrifugal force applied to your vehicle as well as the slope of the road, coefficient of friction between the tires and the road, wind shear and other variables.
That's what makes it so tricky and why Clark couldn't figure it out.
Also, they use the metric system in England, so you get mixed units.
You're figuring out the force in pounds and they use fig Newtons.
That's what makes it so tricky and why Clark couldn't figure it out.
Also, they use the metric system in England, so you get mixed units.
You're figuring out the force in pounds and they use fig Newtons.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,405
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I always report my weight in “stones” when doctors ask … makes me feel lighter …
Toxophilite
Silver Supporter
They just started putting those infernal things here! I'm one of those that stop much in it, and it's not because I don't understand them from being somewhat traveled, but locals here don't, and you have to stop in order to get a read on their intentions.Around here the nice old lady or gentlemen in his beat up 70’s Ford truck is the yellow car stopping at the entry points to politely let the blue come on in …
- Dec 13, 2020
- 743
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- 19600
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- Jandy Aquapure 1400
Really fascinating discussion. A question... What about priming when the pad is above water level? Is high RPM useful for that?
My Intelliflo max rpm is set at 3140. This gives the same 105 gpm its predecessor did - a 1.5 hp Whisperflo .
Yeah. I know.
The pump is about 10 inches above spa level and 24 above pool.
About the only time it ever runs at 3140 is after cleaning the basket or filter, when it drains down. (No valve to prevent this; wish there were; would need a major re-plumb.) It does this for 30-40 seconds until the basket chamber fills. Then it backs off to programmed priming speed, 2500 rpm, until the 3 minute point. Finally it ramps down to normal.
I've always wondered if it would do the initial part of the prime successfully at lower rpm but have no desire to fiddle with a config that's working well.
My Intelliflo max rpm is set at 3140. This gives the same 105 gpm its predecessor did - a 1.5 hp Whisperflo .
Yeah. I know.
The pump is about 10 inches above spa level and 24 above pool.
About the only time it ever runs at 3140 is after cleaning the basket or filter, when it drains down. (No valve to prevent this; wish there were; would need a major re-plumb.) It does this for 30-40 seconds until the basket chamber fills. Then it backs off to programmed priming speed, 2500 rpm, until the 3 minute point. Finally it ramps down to normal.
I've always wondered if it would do the initial part of the prime successfully at lower rpm but have no desire to fiddle with a config that's working well.
For that height, you probably don't need a high priming speed.
You can probably turn it down to about 2,750 RPM.
The 5 HP IntelliFlo XF front end could be paired with the SuperFlo VST motor, the regular IntelliFlo motor or the 5 hp IntelliFlo motor and all you would have to do is program the drive to limit the power to whatever the motor limit is.
So, the 5 hp motor can do all speeds including the 3,450 RPM curve, the regular IntelliFlo motor might be able to do the 3,000 RPM curve and lower curves, and the SuperFlo VST motor might be able to do the 2,500 RPM curve and below.
The 2,500 RPM curve still gets you up to 45 feet of head and up to 180 GPM.
With the SuperFlo motor, most people could probably run at about 1,000 RPM or lower, which is very quiet, but it can also do a lot of flow with the right system.
So, you would have three pump models with the same front end and different motors.
The biggest restriction in systems is usually the heater.
Heaters have terrible hydraulic efficiency and they can be, and should be, redesigned to be at least twice as efficient as far as hydraulic efficiency is concerned.
So, the 5 hp motor can do all speeds including the 3,450 RPM curve, the regular IntelliFlo motor might be able to do the 3,000 RPM curve and lower curves, and the SuperFlo VST motor might be able to do the 2,500 RPM curve and below.
The 2,500 RPM curve still gets you up to 45 feet of head and up to 180 GPM.
With the SuperFlo motor, most people could probably run at about 1,000 RPM or lower, which is very quiet, but it can also do a lot of flow with the right system.
So, you would have three pump models with the same front end and different motors.
The biggest restriction in systems is usually the heater.
Heaters have terrible hydraulic efficiency and they can be, and should be, redesigned to be at least twice as efficient as far as hydraulic efficiency is concerned.
Power = 575 watts = 1,725 RPM = 135 GPM.
Power = 1,000 watts (1 HP motor) = 2,074 RPM = 162 GPM.
Power = 1,500 watts (1.5 HP motor) = 2,375 RPM = 186 GPM.
SuperFlo Motor = 2,093 watts = 2,653 RPM = 207 GPM.
WhisperFlo VST motor = 2,323 watts = 2,747 RPM = 215 GPM.
IntelliFlo VSF motor = 3,200 watts = 3,057 RPM = 239 GPM.
IntelliFloXF 5 hp motor = 4,600 watts = 3,450 RPM = 270 GPM.
Below is the plot of power vs speed using the 5 HP IntelliFlo XF front end.
As you can see, even using a motor that can only do 1,000 watts, which is about a 1 HP motor, the pump can still do the 2,074 RPM curve and below, which is pretty substantial for a simple system with properly sized pipes and a low loss filter.
The power required drops by a cube factor, so the 1,725 RPM speed requires only 4,600 watts/8 = 575 watts.
X = power in watts, Y = RPM.
www.wolframalpha.com
Power = 1,000 watts (1 HP motor) = 2,074 RPM = 162 GPM.
Power = 1,500 watts (1.5 HP motor) = 2,375 RPM = 186 GPM.
SuperFlo Motor = 2,093 watts = 2,653 RPM = 207 GPM.
WhisperFlo VST motor = 2,323 watts = 2,747 RPM = 215 GPM.
IntelliFlo VSF motor = 3,200 watts = 3,057 RPM = 239 GPM.
IntelliFloXF 5 hp motor = 4,600 watts = 3,450 RPM = 270 GPM.
Below is the plot of power vs speed using the 5 HP IntelliFlo XF front end.
As you can see, even using a motor that can only do 1,000 watts, which is about a 1 HP motor, the pump can still do the 2,074 RPM curve and below, which is pretty substantial for a simple system with properly sized pipes and a low loss filter.
The power required drops by a cube factor, so the 1,725 RPM speed requires only 4,600 watts/8 = 575 watts.
X = power in watts, Y = RPM.
Y = 3450/((4600/X)^1/3)), X from 1000 to 4800 - Wolfram|Alpha
Wolfram|Alpha brings expert-level knowledge and capabilities to the broadest possible range of people—spanning all professions and education levels.
www.wolframalpha.com
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RPM..........Watts
1,000..........110.
1,500..........370.
1,725..........575.
2,000..........900.
X = power in watts, Y = RPM.
1,000..........110.
1,500..........370.
1,725..........575.
2,000..........900.
X = power in watts, Y = RPM.
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The 5 hp front end with a SuperFlo Motor (2,093 watts) can do 2,653 RPM at low head and high flow, but it can also do higher RPM at high head and lower flow since this requires less power as shown in the IntelliFlo graph of Power vs. Flow.
So, it could still do high head applications and the curve would look more like the 115 volt curve in the below Tristar Pump Performance Curve where the curve deceases as needed to limit the power usage to the pump limit.
So, you could probably still get the high head (85 feet) up to about 40 GPM before it started to taper off like the third curve.
The Intelliflo uses about 1,500 watts at 3,450 RPM at high head and about 3,000 watts at the same speed but low head, so a 2 times difference.
If the blue line is 4,600 watts at low head, then it should be about 2,300 watts at high head, which puts it in range of the
WhisperFlo VST motor, which can do 2,323 watts, which indicates that it could do the full head at 3,450 RPM and the full flow at 2,747 RPM.
So, it could still do high head applications and the curve would look more like the 115 volt curve in the below Tristar Pump Performance Curve where the curve deceases as needed to limit the power usage to the pump limit.
So, you could probably still get the high head (85 feet) up to about 40 GPM before it started to taper off like the third curve.
The Intelliflo uses about 1,500 watts at 3,450 RPM at high head and about 3,000 watts at the same speed but low head, so a 2 times difference.
If the blue line is 4,600 watts at low head, then it should be about 2,300 watts at high head, which puts it in range of the
WhisperFlo VST motor, which can do 2,323 watts, which indicates that it could do the full head at 3,450 RPM and the full flow at 2,747 RPM.
You've nailed it that every pool system is usually unique and you want to run the pump at a low speed commensurate with an adequate flow and have the ability to run faster to clean the pool. Perhaps the best way to size the pump is to have someone to offer a service to do a temporary instal of 2 or 3 different pumps and measure flow rate, power consumption at low speed and high speed for cleaning. The latters running cost is insignificant due to the short period but needs to be tested to make sure pool cleaning stuff works. Just a thought, Mike