two Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 filters versus single Sta-Rite System 3 S8M500

[RubiconValley]

Hi! My pool guy is recommending the use of two Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 filters (420 sf filter area), instead of a single Sta-Rite System 3 S8M500 (500 sf filter area). His reasoning is that (i) the replacement Pentair CCP420 cartridges are cheaper than the replacement S8M500 cartridges; and that (ii) if you have two filters, then you can keep one filter running while the other filter is being serviced.

Do people have thoughts on this, please? My focus is on effectiveness, reliability, and easy maintenance. I’m wondering if cleaning 8 cartridges (from the two Pentair CCP420) is really less work than cleaning two cartridges (from the single Sta-Rite System 3 S8M500)?

For context: I’m building an 82 x 12 foot pool, 4.5 foot deep at the shallow end and 10 foot at the deep end. Approximately 43k gallons. In SF Bay Area.

Thank you so much! Noob here, obviously.

 

[mknauss]

Do you live in a very dusty area? If not, one filter will be fine. Get a Pentair 520.

 

[Newdude]

Hey Rubicon !!! I'm not quite following the PBs logic.

500 sq ft filter is enough but it's difficult so you need 840 sq ft instead.

The 2 replacement S8M cartridges are expensive so it makes more sense to buy *2* filters which each is as expensive as the S8M.

After you purchase the 2nd filter you now need to replace *8* cartridges when the time comes because the 2 S8Ms are expensive.


Sounds like a few loads of bull to me. I had a S8M500 with 35k gallons. I loved it so much I moved heaven and earth to secure another one after moving. But the fat cartridge is heavy when wet. Nothing anybody able can't do, but if you are winding down in the physical aspect of your life, you may not want to mess with it in 5 or 10 years.

If you want physically easier to manage, the 420 CCP is an amazing filter as well. *and it comes in 520 also* Either will handle your pool just fine and BOTH should get 10 years from the cartridges.

 

[cowboycasey]

I second that, both will do just fine but the CCP 520 will be easier to clean the smaller cart's..

I was going to say @Newdude moved heaven and earth but he beat me to it

 

[Jimrahbe]

R,

Sounds like your pool builder thinks you have to clean the filter once a week or more..

I can't see how shutting down the system for a couple of hours twice a year to clean the cartridges is much of an issue.

I think your pool builder is full of Bull Feathers.

I also suggest that you get the CCP-520..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[RubiconValley]

Do you live in a very dusty area? If not, one filter will be fine. Get a Pentair 520.

Thank you!

 

[RubiconValley]

Hey Rubicon !!! I'm not quite following the PBs logic.

500 sq ft filter is enough but it's difficult so you need 840 sq ft instead.

The 2 replacement S8M cartridges are expensive so it makes more sense to buy *2* filters which each is as expensive as the S8M.

After you purchase the 2nd filter you now need to replace *8* cartridges when the time comes because the 2 S8Ms are expensive.


Sounds like a few loads of bull to me. I had a S8M500 with 35k gallons. I loved it so much I moved heaven and earth to secure another one after moving. But the fat cartridge is heavy when wet. Nothing anybody able can't do, but if you are winding down in the physical aspect of your life, you may not want to mess with it in 5 or 10 years.

If you want physically easier to manage, the 420 CCP is an amazing filter as well. *and it comes in 520 also* Either will handle your pool just fine and BOTH should get 10 years from the cartridges.

Thank you! I wasn't quite following his logic either, but he was saying it in a very matter of fact manner, so I was all: maybe I just don't understand?

Do you have an estimate of how much the S8M500 weighs when wet? Are we talking 50 lbs here, or more than that?

Hey Rubicon !!! I'm not quite following the PBs logic.

500 sq ft filter is enough but it's difficult so you need 840 sq ft instead.

The 2 replacement S8M cartridges are expensive so it makes more sense to buy *2* filters which each is as expensive as the S8M.

After you purchase the 2nd filter you now need to replace *8* cartridges when the time comes because the 2 S8Ms are expensive.


Sounds like a few loads of bull to me. I had a S8M500 with 35k gallons. I loved it so much I moved heaven and earth to secure another one after moving. But the fat cartridge is heavy when wet. Nothing anybody able can't do, but if you are winding down in the physical aspect of your life, you may not want to mess with it in 5 or 10 years.

If you want physically easier to manage, the 420 CCP is an amazing filter as well. *and it comes in 520 also* Either will handle your pool just fine and BOTH should get 10 years from the cartridges.

 

[RubiconValley]

R,

Sounds like your pool builder thinks you have to clean the filter once a week or more..

I can't see how shutting down the system for a couple of hours twice a year to clean the cartridges is much of an issue.

I think your pool builder is full of Bull Feathers.

I also suggest that you get the CCP-520..

Thanks,

Jim R.

I appreciate the sanity check, thank you!

 

[Newdude]

Do you have an estimate of how much the S8M500 weighs when wet? Are we talking 50 lbs here, or more than that?

That’s probably close. Totally manageable if you are able bodied. If you have a bad back or are winding down, maybe not so much.

I liked the S8M for the tool less maintenance. Just 8 indestructible knob clamps and it’s open. The steel belt on the CCP eventually gives problems and can be tricky to reseat as it ages, but replacing it doesn’t break the bank so I’m nitpicking there. But i also really liked the no internal parts. The cartridges seat directly into the housing without the 4 way holder togetherer piece on the top and bottom.

 

[Newdude]

See here. The S8M filters smack right into the housing with nothing else. And the housing is 1/2 inch+ thick and virtually indestructible

 

[RubiconValley]

That’s probably close. Totally manageable if you are able bodied. If you have a bad back or are winding down, maybe not so much.

I liked the S8M for the tool less maintenance. Just 8 indestructible knob clamps and it’s open. The steel belt on the CCP eventually gives problems and can be tricky to reseat as it ages, but replacing it doesn’t break the bank so I’m nitpicking there. But i also really liked the no internal parts. The cartridges seat directly into the housing without the 4 way holder togetherer piece on the top and bottom.

Thank you, those are useful points to consider--much appreciated!

 

[RubiconValley]

See here. The S8M filters smack right into the housing with nothing else. And the housing is 1/2 inch+ thick and virtually indestructible
View attachment 363283

View attachment 363284

A lot more parts to potentially mess up and fail in the CCP. I can see now why you like the S8M500. These are great visuals, thank you!

 

[Newdude]

I almost had no choice but to get the CCP because of the recent shortages. I would have done so in a HEARTBEAT as my 2nd choice because there are millions of them out there doing great.

I just think the S8M is a better design.

 

[RubiconValley]

I almost had no choice but to get the CCP because of the recent shortages. I would have done so in a HEARTBEAT as my 2nd choice because there are millions of them out there doing great.

I just think the S8M is a better design.

That is a problem I'm struggling with as well--almost every large item on my list of pool equipment needed is backordered with no ETA. It is reassuring that both seem like solid options.

 

[Newdude]

This should make you feel better. Maybe even chuckle a little cuz when I laugh at my struggles, I control them and not the other way around.

The equipment struggle is real / 2 steps forward 1 back

Hey all. Hopefully this thread will morph into a build thread but at the moment, I’m not so sure. I told my PB that we wanted to go ahead with a build this year and he said that he could do June/July but he couldn’t garauntee what equipment he could get between now and then. He agreed to...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[setsailsoon]

If you have to clean the filter more than twice per year and your pool is good the filter is undersized or you should be more concerned about the air you're breathing instead of your pool filters. I think both designs appear to be sound and both brands are from companies that have been around for years. I would look at items like this to decide:

• Availability (way more important these days than ever)
• Up front costs Vs long term. Check this for after market sellers and the OEM. Very few housing manufacturers manufacture their own filters... maybe none do.
• Some people prefer multiple smaller elements others prefer larger single elements. I prefer the latter because it's less parts to fail and seems quicker to clean. Whatever your preference is, you should consider this.
• Warranty is lower on the list for me since I don't know of a single filter housing that has ever failed under warranty.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[RubiconValley]

If you have to clean the filter more than twice per year and your pool is good the filter is undersized or you should be more concerned about the air you're breathing instead of your pool filters. I think both designs appear to be sound and both brands are from companies that have been around for years. I would look at items like this to decide:

• Availability (way more important these days than ever)
• Up front costs Vs long term. Check this for after market sellers and the OEM. Very few housing manufacturers manufacture their own filters... maybe none do.
• Some people prefer multiple smaller elements others prefer larger single elements. I prefer the latter because it's less parts to fail and seems quicker to clean. Whatever your preference is, you should consider this.
• Warranty is lower on the list for me since I don't know of a single filter housing that has ever failed under warranty.

I hope this helps.

Chris

Thank you. All good points, and a useful sanity check. Much appreciated!

 

[RubiconValley]

This should make you feel better. Maybe even chuckle a little cuz when I laugh at my struggles, I control them and not the other way around.

The equipment struggle is real / 2 steps forward 1 back

Hey all. Hopefully this thread will morph into a build thread but at the moment, I’m not so sure. I told my PB that we wanted to go ahead with a build this year and he said that he could do June/July but he couldn’t garauntee what equipment he could get between now and then. He agreed to...

www.troublefreepool.com

Ouch! This is my lived experience right now, only I haven't started calling online retailers yet to find out who has stock.

 

[Newdude]

only I haven't started calling online retailers yet to find out who has stock.

The little guys call over to their warehouse and somebody physically lays eyes on it to confirm. The big guys have algorithms in their system that expect XXX units if they are out of stock so they see those soon to be here units as available. Immediately upon checkout several of my orders got flagged and kicked back when the system realized that the incoming orders themselves were backordered.

Sure they could revamp all the systems at who knows what costs to reflect the current state of affairs, but as soon as they did, everything would go back to normal. Or go worse a different way. Whattayagonnado ? I always say

 

[RubiconValley]

R,
I also suggest that you get the CCP-520..

Thanks,

Jim R.

I am so sorry for the dumb noob question. I was reviewing the TFP “How to select pool equipment - Further Reading” page again, and saw that it specifies: "At a minimum you want 200SF/10,000 gallons of pool volume." Does this mean that for a 43,244 gallons pool, I really want to be getting 865+ sf of filters?