Trying to SLAM - bleach not responding as thought

justinc

Gold Supporter
Apr 3, 2019
585
Texas
"Solution: a liquid mixture in which the minor component (the solute) is uniformly distributed within the major component (the solvent)."

In this case, the water is the solvent and the metals are the solute.... When the solute (the metals) falls out of the solution (the water/metal solution) it's no longer in the water and now instead embedded in your pool surface.

It's basically a fancy way of saying that the metals were dissolved in the water, but things got to a certain point where either there was more metal than could be dissolved in the water or the pH changed which changes the ability of certain metals to stay in/out of solution... and now the metals have "left" the water and made a happy home in your vinyl liner.
 

jamie973

Active member
Jun 14, 2019
41
New Jersey
ok, so I passed the SLAM criteria and will let the chlorine return to normal levels. Next I will try the citric acid stain removal treatment- this worked well last time - but I didn't add polyquat 60 for when the chlorine levels were getting low. Any particular polyquat 60 brand I should use?

Also, I didn't restore normal chlorine levels quickly enough.
 

justinc

Gold Supporter
Apr 3, 2019
585
Texas
ok, so I passed the SLAM criteria and will let the chlorine return to normal levels. Next I will try the citric acid stain removal treatment- this worked well last time - but I didn't add polyquat 60 for when the chlorine levels were getting low. Any particular polyquat 60 brand I should use?

Also, I didn't restore normal chlorine levels quickly enough.
Brand does not matter, but the cheapest I have found is from poolgeek.com (algimycin 600) GLB Algimycin 600 - Pool Geek

Pool Geek sells 1 quart for $13.78

Compare to Amazon Kem-Tek brand 1 quart at $27.19 Amazon.com : Kem-Tek KTK-50-0006 Pool and Spa 60-Percent Concentrated Algaecide, 1 Quart : Swimming Pool Algaecides : Gateway
 

jamie973

Active member
Jun 14, 2019
41
New Jersey
I ended up getting hth Algae Guard 60.
So - I'm waiting for the FC to go low enough to use the stain treatment - they recommend 1 or less.

My problem last time is that I didn't use algaecide before and didn't bring up the levels up right away.
 

justinc

Gold Supporter
Apr 3, 2019
585
Texas
I ended up getting hth Algae Guard 60.
So - I'm waiting for the FC to go low enough to use the stain treatment - they recommend 1 or less.

My problem last time is that I didn't use algaecide before and didn't bring up the levels up right away.
I do not think that product is Poly quat. Look at the ingredients. It MUST be 60% or 30% Poly (oxyethylene (dimethyliminio ethylene (Dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride

HTH ALgae Guard 60 is misleadingly named. The active ingredient is ammonia!!!
 

Tenab

Bronze Supporter
Jun 26, 2019
90
NE Texas
I do not think that product is Poly quat. Look at the ingredients. It MUST be 60% or 30% Poly (oxyethylene (dimethyliminio ethylene (Dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride

HTH ALgae Guard 60 is misleadingly named. The active ingredient is ammonia!!!
@jamie973
We are in the same situation. I'm waiting for my chlorine to drop .. have been for days. I also have the hth algaecide. (I've put pool store algaecide in already).

Sooo...
Is the hth less potent or worthless? Will it damage anything? It was advertised as no metals, I really don't recall why I ended up with it.

To use or not?
 

YippeeSkippy

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 17, 2012
10,544
Evans, Georgia
Don't use if it is the one listed above with ammonia (HTH AlgaeGuard 60)

The Polyquat 60 will be the more expensive stuff.... Poly (oxyethylene (dimethyliminio ethylene (Dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride

No ammonia and no copper is wanted in the pool. Cheaper algaecides often contain copper. Read the ingredients.
 

justinc

Gold Supporter
Apr 3, 2019
585
Texas
I would buy Poly and use that. You are going to see your chlorine usage go up as it binds to the ammonia. Just don't do it again lo!l! And shame on sneaky HTH for putting "Algaecide 60" on the label to fool people!
 
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JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
15,431
Tucson, AZ
Adding ammonia to a chlorinated pool will result in formation of monochloramine (CCs) which can act an algaecide. It will also create that “nasty chlorinated pool” smell. I suggest you stop using it and find some polyquat.
 

Tenab

Bronze Supporter
Jun 26, 2019
90
NE Texas
Adding ammonia to a chlorinated pool will result in formation of monochloramine (CCs) which can act an algaecide. It will also create that “nasty chlorinated pool” smell. I suggest you stop using it and find some polyquat.
Understand, not an ongoing (or previously used) situation. Just a single use to drop the chlorine, and prevent algae for Ascorbic Acid Treatment which hopefully won't take very long.

I've been reading a thread and Polyquat itself is a type of Ammonia and can read as CC

Apparently the hth is a cheap imitation and might foam. But in this singular situation, it might fit ok?


From:

The hth is "...a common linear quat so will tend to foam and it will break down faster from chlorine. It's less expensive, but you get what you pay for."

Not an ideal equation, but just once...

(I feel like a child saying "but why") 😂
 

jamie973

Active member
Jun 14, 2019
41
New Jersey
Still have a little more FC to drop - can everyone let me know if I bought an acceptable Sequestering agent for after the stain treatment :)
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
20,151
Laughlin, NV
From Pool School - Stains in Your Pool - Trouble Free Pool
Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective. ProTeam’s Metal Magic and Jack’s Magic The Pink Stuff (regular), The Blue Stuff (fresh plaster), and The Purple Stuff (salt) are some of the top brand sequestrants. There are also other brands with similar active ingredients, some of which are noticeably less expensive.
 
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jamie973

Active member
Jun 14, 2019
41
New Jersey
My pool looks great! Citric acid tends to take a day longer then ascorbic for the full effect.

For the sequestering agent - I added the maintenance level - should I have added a little more for the initial post stain remover treatment? I see a few places left that have a little stain left.
 

justinc

Gold Supporter
Apr 3, 2019
585
Texas
My pool looks great! Citric acid tends to take a day longer then ascorbic for the full effect.

For the sequestering agent - I added the maintenance level - should I have added a little more for the initial post stain remover treatment? I see a few places left that have a little stain left.
You have to add a large dose and then smaller weekly maintenance doses. Check the jacks magic website for their dosing instructions for their stain removers. Specifically the iron removing protocol. I think they tell you to use a whole dang bottle of sequestration agent. I’m on mobile now so can’t check.
 

jamie973

Active member
Jun 14, 2019
41
New Jersey
yeah - it does say initial treatment would be the whole bottle - so that makes sense. I was thinking the initial treatment was more for when you're opening the pool. I'm going ahead with that.
 

jamie973

Active member
Jun 14, 2019
41
New Jersey
Does the sequestrant mainly prevent stains from re-occurring or will it also clear up some stains? I feel a slight dinginess returning. I will get the pink stuff moving forward.