this may sound funny, but...

joedoe

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2013
65
pittsburgh pa
trying to figure on pump, filter etc. based on what i have learned from feedback on this thread, i am planning on the following:

1. pump- pentair intelliflo VS pump, in case i do decide to get solar panels and electric savings.
2. filter - i am looking at either the hayward or pentair cartridge filters, however i am having a hard time trying to figure on the size i would need, can anyone help there?
3. planning on 1 skimmer, 2 MDs, and 3 returns
4. 2 inch rigid PVC- does this need to be below the frost line? also buy from DIY kit provider or purchase at box store?
5. jandy valves- they seem to be the most reliable from what i have read here
6. SWG-Hayward aqua rite 25k
7. any recommendations for lights, basically just want one light to illuminate at night, nothing fancy, would be nice if it changed colors, but not a necessity, not a place we want to spend a lot of money

thanks for any advice! getting close to ordering! snow melted but more due this week...uuuggghhh
 

bobodaclown

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Apr 14, 2011
2,363
Murrieta, CA
trying to figure on pump, filter etc. based on what i have learned from feedback on this thread, i am planning on the following:

1. pump- pentair intelliflo VS pump, in case i do decide to get solar panels and electric savings.
A 2-speed motor may be a better value. Depending on the electricity cost in your area. (Price differential in a 2-speed and VS over the life of the motor)
2
. filter - i am looking at either the hayward or pentair cartridge filters, however i am having a hard time trying to figure on the size i would need, can anyone help there?
Get the biggest you can afford. 400-500 feet. But if you can only affoard 100ft filter, it will require more frequent cleanings. I have 17K pool unscreened in Florida. During the summer once to twice a month in the winter 4 months with out cleaning.
3. planning on 1 skimmer, 2 MDs, and 3 returns
Place you skimmer downwind for the summer breezes otherwise one at each end. You want your skimmer to collect the leaves before they settle to the bottom. So downwind the wind will blow them that way when they're on the surface, the flow of the water will also carry them.
4. 2 inch rigid PVC- does this need to be below the frost line? also buy from DIY kit provider or purchase at box store?
It should be below the frost line if you're not going to blow the lines out at the end of the season. Larger pipe = less resistance to flow.
5. jandy valves- they seem to be the most reliable from what i have read here
Avoid ball valves. Jandy valves are a good value.
6. SWG-Hayward aqua rite 25k
Go larger. 2 to 3 times the size of your pool.
7. any recommendations for lights, basically just want one light to illuminate at night, nothing fancy, would be nice if it changed colors, but not a necessity, not a place we want to spend a lot of money
Look at the led ones they're nice, low energy, multiple colors but they can get expensive.
thanks for any advice! getting close to ordering! snow melted but more due this week...uuuggghhh

Coming up quickly on mud season, then spring, ahh summer is only a few months away.

If you get all your products (Hayward or Pentair) have them professionally installed I think they double the warranty.
 

MassNerd

LifeTime Supporter
Apr 27, 2013
174
Central Massachusetts
+1 on go larger on the SWG. Get the 40K T-cell for not much more money. You'll possibly end up better off in the long run. You save on electric bills because you won't need to run the pump as long to generate the chlorine you need.
 

joedoe

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2013
65
pittsburgh pa
so largest filter size = less cleaning...how do i calculate what size i need though? i have calculated approx. 20k gallon for my pool
our summer breeze will push leaves to shallow end, is it ok to have skimmer on same wall as steps? (silly question?)
everyone up here seems to blow out lines on fall and then partially fill with antifreeze, that sound right?
so larger SWG = less pump use and lower electricity? sounds good, ill look into that
Does the SWG also significantly cut back on chemical costs? i know it is much more pleasant to swim in, especially with contacts.

wife really want a heater, however i would rather spend the money on a passive heater/solar panel, less to break down. is a heater a necessity? most of the people i know in pittsburgh just keep a cover over pool and keep the temps in the upper 80s/low 90s. woul dthe heater extend the season a few weeks? ill swim in any temp, but wife and kids probably want upper 80s at least

thanks
 
Last edited:

ssgumby

LifeTime Supporter
Feb 17, 2012
405
Maryland
Purchase rigid PVC locally, much cheaper.

Definitely go with Jandy.

As for SWCG cell, I did not go with the largest. I have a T-CELL9, my pool is 18x36. I had to crank the salt percentage way back to keep chlorine levels down. My pump runs from 8am to around 5pm. I am not sure why a larger cell would help, in my case it seems my smaller cell is easily large enough for my pool.
 

sargent

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2013
291
Tulsa, OK
Filter: I have a similar size pool and went with the Hayward C3030 cartridge filter. It is 325 sq ft. Best price I found was at poolandspasupply.com, $525 delivered. From what I have heard, you really wouldn't want to go any smaller. You could go bigger, but the next size up would be an extra $175, and I didn't think it would be worth the cost.
 

bobodaclown

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Apr 14, 2011
2,363
Murrieta, CA
so largest filter size = less cleaning...how do i calculate what size i need though? i have calculated approx. 20k gallon for my pool
I have a 17K pool with a CC100 (100 ft) cartridge filter. Works well - no complaints.

our summer breeze will push leaves to shallow end, is it ok to have skimmer on same wall as steps? (silly question?)
I don't see a problem with doing it that way. The pool builder may want to put it on the deep end with the main drain piping. Get his opinion. He may say it's not a problem.

everyone up here seems to blow out lines on fall and then partially fill with antifreeze, that sound right?
Sounds prudent to do it that way.

so larger SWG = less pump use and lower electricity? sounds good, ill look into that
The SWCG only works when the pump is running. If you can dose faster then you don't need to run the pump as long. People tend to over run their pumps. (Check out this link: http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/152-determine-pump-run-time)

Does the SWG also significantly cut back on chemical costs? i know it is much more pleasant to swim in, especially with contacts.
It really becomes a wash. You save on time ensuring you have a proper FC level, not having to add chlorine ever few days.

wife really want a heater, however i would rather spend the money on a passive heater/solar panel, less to break down. is a heater a necessity? most of the people i know in pittsburgh just keep a cover over pool and keep the temps in the upper 80s/low 90s. woul dthe heater extend the season a few weeks? ill swim in any temp, but wife and kids probably want upper 80s at least

Solar pool heating is the way to go. My system came with a heat pump pool heater that we use for bit to heat the water about a month or so at the beginning and end of season. Early March/Nov, I don't have a pool cover.
I realize it's for Florida but the basic facts are there.
Some info: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consumer/solar_hot_water/pools/sizing.htm

Your welcome. We've all been there; not sure and asking questions.
 

joedoe

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2013
65
pittsburgh pa
ssgumby,

"For the record, I bought my kit from poolproducts.com (im not affiliated with them). They were good, I was able to tweak the kit how I wanted it. I excluded the vermiculite, the liner, the plumbing. Essentially I got the walls and the big stuff." ( i got to learn how to work the functions:confused:)

just curious, why did you buy the liner separately? different pattern from what they were offering? also is there any benefit from 30mil vs. 20 or 27 mil?
 

Royal Swimming Pools

In The Industry
Jul 10, 2013
3
ssgumby,

"For the record, I bought my kit from poolproducts.com (im not affiliated with them). They were good, I was able to tweak the kit how I wanted it. I excluded the vermiculite, the liner, the plumbing. Essentially I got the walls and the big stuff." ( i got to learn how to work the functions:confused:)

just curious, why did you buy the liner separately? different pattern from what they were offering? also is there any benefit from 30mil vs. 20 or 27 mil?

Hey joedoe,

First, I'd like to say thank you for considering us for your pool kit purchase! Second, I read through this thread and it looks like you are definitely getting the help you need from some of the best guys here. I'm glad you're doing your research to make sure you get the best kit to fit exactly what you want and need.

I would also personally recommend a 2 speed pump as bobodaclown suggested earlier. They are cost effective and offer good efficiency over a standard single speed.

In regards to your liner question, this is a bit of a tough one. The main benefit to a thicker liner is that it is a little more resistant to punctures. Some thicker liners may also have better UV protection than a thinner liner and resist fading better. Between a thicker and thinner liner, you will find that a thinner liner is easier to install because it stretches more easily to fit. This is good if your dig is off or it is cold outside and you estimate it will take you quite a long time to install the liner. My recommendation to you would be this; Choose the liner pattern you and your family like the best. If you do that, you can't go wrong!

Feel free to ask us any more questions here or on our site, we do have installation techs available during our normal business hours who can discuss any portion of the installation process you need assistance with!

Have a great one!
 

ssgumby

LifeTime Supporter
Feb 17, 2012
405
Maryland
ssgumby,

"For the record, I bought my kit from poolproducts.com (im not affiliated with them). They were good, I was able to tweak the kit how I wanted it. I excluded the vermiculite, the liner, the plumbing. Essentially I got the walls and the big stuff." ( i got to learn how to work the functions:confused:)

just curious, why did you buy the liner separately? different pattern from what they were offering? also is there any benefit from 30mil vs. 20 or 27 mil?

First, we went with Vynall for our liner, and we went with the 28/20. The reasons were several. #1, it allowed us to not put out the money for the liner right away, we were able to work on the pool and only spend on the liner when needed. #2, we were concerned with a standard liner, simply due to the fit. We were able to measure and get it custom made to our measurements. The liner truly fit like a glove. #3 We wanted some flexibility in our patterns and border, Vynall was able to make us whatever combination we wanted. Having said all that, the #4 reason is not one I expected, but the service from Vynall was fantastic. We had a seam issue within days of installation, Vynall did not hesitate and sent us a new liner.
 

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joedoe

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2013
65
pittsburgh pa
ok got my 'pool permit'. and spoke with my excavator. only problem is 6-12 inches snow due for sunday night!! great!!

can anyone else weigh in on pumps. I want a at least a 2 speed, and I don't mind spending a little more money for lower electrical costs over the next 10 years. so everything I read is pointing towards a variable speed pump, plus it allows for upgrades, ie. solar panels on garage roof.

most posts I read also suggest going with slightly larger filter size...any more thoughts?

it seems like liner thickness comes into play more when installing.

I have been debating, is it better to backfill then install liner, or more conventionally (from what I've read) to back fill after liner.

it seems like the more I lean the more questions I have...am I doing something wrong??:shock:
 

MassNerd

LifeTime Supporter
Apr 27, 2013
174
Central Massachusetts
Purchase rigid PVC locally, much cheaper.
As for SWCG cell, I did not go with the largest. I have a T-CELL9, my pool is 18x36. I had to crank the salt percentage way back to keep chlorine levels down. My pump runs from 8am to around 5pm. I am not sure why a larger cell would help, in my case it seems my smaller cell is easily large enough for my pool.

That's a long time to run your pump, unless you have a heat pump and need to run it that long to heat the water. It's hard to know before the pool is up and running how large a SWG you really need, but for $150 more its not a big investment to go with the T-CELL15 and it could allow you to minimize pump run time.
 

joedoe

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2013
65
pittsburgh pa
yeah 9 hours seems long to run the pump, I was hoping for more like 5 hours on a low HP. we are just lookin' to run the total gallons once a day right? if the SWG is too small does that require the pump to run longer?

thanks
 

joedoe

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2013
65
pittsburgh pa
more questions!!

I was planning to run plumbing lines about 20 feet under landscaping stone about 12 inches deep, obviously this will not be below frost line, but I figure winterizing will address any issues., that sounds OK?

what are my options for padding under vinyl? what have others done?
 

ssgumby

LifeTime Supporter
Feb 17, 2012
405
Maryland
ok got my 'pool permit'. and spoke with my excavator. only problem is 6-12 inches snow due for sunday night!! great!!

can anyone else weigh in on pumps. I want a at least a 2 speed, and I don't mind spending a little more money for lower electrical costs over the next 10 years. so everything I read is pointing towards a variable speed pump, plus it allows for upgrades, ie. solar panels on garage roof.

most posts I read also suggest going with slightly larger filter size...any more thoughts?

it seems like liner thickness comes into play more when installing.

I have been debating, is it better to backfill then install liner, or more conventionally (from what I've read) to back fill after liner.

it seems like the more I lean the more questions I have...am I doing something wrong??:shock:

We partially backfilled, then finished once liner and water was in. Basically once plumbing was done we put a layer over that which allowed us to walk around without obviously walking on the plumbing. We had the back fill done to within 12-18 inches before putting in the liner.

- - - Updated - - -

That's a long time to run your pump, unless you have a heat pump and need to run it that long to heat the water. It's hard to know before the pool is up and running how large a SWG you really need, but for $150 more its not a big investment to go with the T-CELL15 and it could allow you to minimize pump run time.

I like it running that long for various reasons. One of them is my kids are in there everyday basically all afternoon. It is a 2 speed and is running on low for that period.
 

MassNerd

LifeTime Supporter
Apr 27, 2013
174
Central Massachusetts
yeah 9 hours seems long to run the pump, I was hoping for more like 5 hours on a low HP. we are just lookin' to run the total gallons once a day right? if the SWG is too small does that require the pump to run longer?

thanks

Running the volume of your pool through once a day is the general rule of thumb. If the SWG is too small, then yes, you may need to run it longer to generate enough chlorine. Its hard to tell up front if you need a larger unit. Everyone's mileage varies... Again, I don't think its much money to upgrade to the tcell-15 so I'd consider it.
 

joedoe

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2013
65
pittsburgh pa
Ok I know our pool is gonna get a ton of use, my kids are like fish, so it may be better to upgrade to larger swg.
Partially filling sounds like a great option, will composite walls hold up to that? Also did u use stone or dirt for backfill?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

swimcmp

In The Industry
Nov 8, 2011
1,091
Moberly,MO
I have built a specific brand of polymer wall for almost thirty years. I never put a liner in until backfill and deck are finished. Never had a problem with doing it that way.
 

joedoe

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2013
65
pittsburgh pa
Thanks swim camp I think I'm definitely leaning that way. If We get started in the next month I'm hoping to have it pretty much completed by mid-May. It would be great to have the concrete deck done so I could clean before putting liner and water
When do you put the vermiculite in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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