TF-100 CYA reagent test instructions

Rangeball

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May 25, 2007
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#1
[Edited Title to reflect correct name of kit. It is not the TFP kit. TFP has no kit. The tf-100 is sold by tftestkits.com

-SeanB


Could someone please post the instructions for running this test? I bought the reagent last year, but for the life of me can't find where I put the instructions :(

Thanks in advance :)
 

duraleigh

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#2
CYA test – CYA is an important additive to your pool. It stabilizes the Chlorine in your pool and prevents the Chlorine from being QUICKLY consumed by sunlight. Opinions vary, but a range of 30-70 seems to be right for most pools. This test is the most subjective and may take a time or two to “get” it. You will also use the most chemistry on this important test.

1. Fill the Red-capped CYA mixing bottle to the bottom line with pool water. Now, fill the bottle to the top line with R-0013. Mix, then wait at least 30 seconds. Shake once more.

2. Next, get the clear tube marked “C.A. VIEW TUBE” and, holding it at waist level, (so you can look down into the tube) slowly fill the view tube with the solution you have mixed. Keep filling until you can no longer see the black dot in the bottom of the tube. Note the fill level of the view tube. The gradation closest to the fill level indicates your CYA reading. Record.
 

Rangeball

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May 25, 2007
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#3
Thanks. I'll have to double check to see if I bought your tubes as well, I think I did, but can't remember exactly...
 

Rangeball

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May 25, 2007
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#4
Dave, I purchased your R-0013 CYA reagent. I don't have the taylor view tube, just the tube that comes with the HTH 6 way kit you can get at walmart.

I believe Waterbear told me last year that HTH and you/Taylor use the same CYA reagent, so I can just run the test per the HTH instructions with their view tube, right? I know the Taylor can read lower ppm, but that shouldn't be a concern as I've decided to run my CYA at 40 versus the 20 I ran last year.
 

duraleigh

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#5
The chemistry I use is Taylor's.

I have no idea whether it will work with an HTH view tube or not. It's a 50-50 mix of reagent and pool water so if you do the same with the HTH test (50-50) my assumption is that it will work.
 
G

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#6
The HTH kit is a rebranded Taylor kit so the view tube is a Taylor view tube, just not the one that is incldued in the TF100. The 30-100 ppm view tube uses a 7 ml sample and 7 ml of CYA reagent and the tube is smaller which is why it is not as wide a range.
 

rimshaker

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Jul 15, 2007
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#8
So as long as the sample is a 50/50 mix of pool water and reagent, any of the view tubes out there will work right?

Are the CYA results accurate only at the exact moment you can't see the black dot any more? Is the result still valid after letting the sample sit like 10-15 seconds? Sometimes when I stop filling the tube for a few seconds, the cloudiness seems to settle down a bit and then I can just barely see the black dot image again. But if I swirl the sample a bit, it'll get cloudier again. Dang, talk about a subjective test.
 

Matt

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Jun 5, 2008
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#9
Assuming that the melamine is in excess and that the CYA is always the limiting reagent, then yes, any tube should be equivalent (provided they are based on a 50/50 mixture). I believe that's the case, as the CYA levels are unknown before you perform the test, so there must be sufficient melamine to bind up all the CYA and create sufficient turbidity to get a measurement.

I theory, you could make your own tube. Just put something contrasty at the bottom of a tube of some sort, and use solutions where you know the CYA (i.e. prepare some CYA solutions of known concentration) to calibrate the tube, marking off where you cannot see the markings at each level of CYA.

Of course, it's easier to spend a few bucks and just buy one, and that's what I did.

The scale is (probably) logarithmic. If you notice, the spacing between 20 and 30 is not the same as between 30 and 40, or 40 and 50, etc. I'd have to think more to figure out exactly what equation it is, but I'd guess it's a logarithmic scale. However, the exact distances, while the ratios should be consistent, will vary based on the contrast of the markings at the bottom.

Personally, I hate this test. I do not like figuring out at just what point I can or cannot see the stupid black dot. If I had a turbidity reading machine, that would be one thing, but not many of us have those.
 

JasonLion

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#11
The tubes are not all the same. Taylor uses one scale on all of it's products, and many of the other companies either use Taylor components or copied the Taylor scale. But a few companies make a CYA test with a different scale. For example the Blue Devil CYA test kit uses a different scale.
 
G
#12
Matt said:
If I had a turbidity reading machine, that would be one thing, but not many of us have those.
I do! :wink: I still like to use the view tube rather than the LaMotte colorimeter/tubidimeter (I am NOT referring to the ColorQ here) because the LaMotte reagent is a bit more temperature sensitive than the Taylor one.
 

Matt

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#13
Do you like the LaMotte CYA test better than the Taylor overall? I've never used LaMotte, but I really hate that Taylor turbidity test for CYA. Oh, and can I have your turbidity machine? =P We used to use them a lot back in college. Never thought I'd want my own though...

If it's the same test (50% melamine, 50% pool water) for each tube, then as far as I can see it should work in any of the tubes. Or is it not a 50/50 mix in some kits? I could see achieving an excess of melamine in a more concentrated mix with much lower volume.
 
G
#14
Matt said:
Do you like the LaMotte CYA test better than the Taylor overall? I've never used LaMotte, but I really hate that Taylor turbidity test for CYA. Oh, and can I have your turbidity machine? =P We used to use them a lot back in college. Never thought I'd want my own though...

If it's the same test (50% melamine, 50% pool water) for each tube, then as far as I can see it should work in any of the tubes. Or is it not a 50/50 mix in some kits? I could see achieving an excess of melamine in a more concentrated mix with much lower volume.
The Lamotte test uses dry reagents and is read by a $1000 colorimieter/turbidimeter. My experience is that it consistantly reads on the low side in a pool whose volume has been determined using OnBalance's method of chemically determining a pool's volume and putting a known quantity of CYA in that should give a specific rise in CYA. The Taylor disappearing dot test, while more subjective gives results that are more in line with the expected rise in CYA. I prefer the Taylor but the LaMotte is faster, which is a consideration since I can do a battery of 8 tests (FC, TC, pH, CH, TA, CYA, Copper, and Iron) in about 5 minutes. However it's precision is +10/-25 ppm for the CYA test and it is more temperature dependent. Turbidity is difficult for even a meter to read. Realize that Taylor's reagent is NOT just melamine but a proprietary mixture that includes pH buffers and other ingredients. Different companies will use other reagent mixtures so the tests are not going to be identical. In LaMotte's home and service testkits CYA is usually done with a reagent in tablet form and it has some problems with reading low also (as anyone with a ColorQ can attest to.)
 

Matt

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Jun 5, 2008
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#15
I may still look into the LaMotte, I'd rather match color than do turbidity readings. I usually find an enormous range of values that "might" be what the test is reading... "I think I can sort of see the dot... " etc
 
G
#16
If you can see the dot the test is not done. Do the test in open shade outdoors and hold the view tube at waist level. Also, when you initially mix the reagent and sample shake it for 30 seconds and then let it sit for 3-5 minutes then shake it again before slowly dispensing it into the view tube. The small view tube in the K-2006 is a bit difficult to read. Taylor has a kit with a larger view tube (same as in the TF100 testkit) that has a range of 20-100 ppm and is easier to read, IMHO. However, it does require a larger sample (15 ml) instead of 7 ml and the same amount of reagent (15 ml).
 

Matt

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Jun 5, 2008
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#17
shake it for 30 seconds and then let it sit for 3-5 minutes then shake it again before slowly dispensing it into the view tube.
I've always done the 30s, but never the 3-5 mins. I'll try that next time.

Do you have a part number or link to the other tube? That might be worth it. I bought one of the huge (16 oz?) bottles of melamine this year, as well as FAS, since I go through them so fast, so using 15ml shouldn't be an issue for me. (Those big bottles are WAY cheaper per unit volume... I think the melamine one was 5.50 or so for 16 oz.)
 
G
#18
Matt said:
shake it for 30 seconds and then let it sit for 3-5 minutes then shake it again before slowly dispensing it into the view tube.
I've always done the 30s, but never the 3-5 mins. I'll try that next time.

Do you have a part number or link to the other tube? That might be worth it. I bought one of the huge (16 oz?) bottles of melamine this year, as well as FAS, since I go through them so fast, so using 15ml shouldn't be an issue for me. (Those big bottles are WAY cheaper per unit volume... I think the melamine one was 5.50 or so for 16 oz.)
Check out the link to TFTestkits in my sig. Duraliegh uses all Taylor reagents and components in his kit and does sell reagents and might sell parts. He ships the same day or next day depending on what time he gets the order and his prices are good. The veiw tube he uses IS the larger one but you will also need the larger mixing vial so you might want to consider ordering the comploete CYA test from him. It is only $17 while the equivalent Taylor kit is $47 (you won't get the blue plastic box but you will get the same view tube, a mixing and dispensing vial and 4 oz of R-0013. The Taylor kit comes with 8 oz but if you do the math you can buy almost 3 of duralieh's kits for that amount!)