SWG - usage/production

[Tom09]

I’m trying to get my levels balanced as I’ll put my SWG in this weekend. I put my salt at 3500 ppm but it’s probably about 3,000 I will be increasing it once I get up and running.

My PH is about 7.7 right now I am currently adding 3lbs of stabilizer to increase to 50 ppm, I know the recommended levels is higher but going into the close of summer, do I need It higher right now?

CH is at 300 ish, me and these tests don’t get a long. Further trading suggests not adding CH and let it increase on its own.

TA- this and ph impact CSI the most. I am at 70 within the ideal range but my csi is -0.27+ especially if my got to 7.6. I am working on keeping it at 7.8 since that’s the ideal level for my CSI.

You’ll see both SS with the different TA levels, is this something I should increase instead of being further negative with the csi reading?

Also, the recommended levels of Chlorine is lower with SWG why is that? CYA level is recommended higher with the SWG, wouldn’t FC follow?

 

[HermanTX]

Temperature also affects CSI and you will notice as water temperature decreases you will need to keep pH in the 7.8 - 7.9 range.
Any CSI higher than negative .3 is fine so keep it in the -0.3 to 0 range when using a SWCG.

FC levels are lower with a SWCG because chlorine is being added consistently as long as the pump is running. When you dump LC then FC goes high and depletes over time. Also the recommended CYA is higher because there is only a smaller amount of FC being added at any given time so the higher CYA protects it better. If your CYA is at 50 then just test your FC more often to ensure your FC stays in range - especially during sunny days. If your CYA is low then run your FC at the higher end of the range so FC does not drop below the minimum. Don't temp fate.

IF you need to increase CH then add with Calcium Chloride or if your tap water is very high calcium.

If the tap water is very high TA and there is lots of evaporation plan to keep adding MA to control TA in the desired range.

As stated earlier, if your water temperature decreases, plan to keep your pH higher to offset it for proper CSI.
Right now your balance with pH of 7.7 and TA of 70 is fine. Just keep monitoring it.

Glad to see that you are using PM app and changing numbers to see how each affects CSI - that helps you understand the pool and what levers you need to pull to maintain CSI proper range. Good Work!!!!

 

[Tom09]

Temperature also affects CSI and you will notice as water temperature decreases you will need to keep pH in the 7.8 - 7.9 range.
Any CSI higher than negative .3 is fine so keep it in the -0.3 to 0 range when using a SWCG.

FC levels are lower with a SWCG because chlorine is being added consistently as long as the pump is running. When you dump LC then FC goes high and depletes over time. Also the recommended CYA is higher because there is only a smaller amount of FC being added at any given time so the higher CYA protects it better. If your CYA is at 50 then just test your FC more often to ensure your FC stays in range - especially during sunny days. If your CYA is low then run your FC at the higher end of the range so FC does not drop below the minimum. Don't temp fate.

IF you need to increase CH then add with Calcium Chloride or if your tap water is very high calcium.

If the tap water is very high TA and there is lots of evaporation plan to keep adding MA to control TA in the desired range.

As stated earlier, if your water temperature decreases, plan to keep your pH higher to offset it for proper CSI.
Right now your balance with pH of 7.7 and TA of 70 is fine. Just keep monitoring it.

Glad to see that you are using PM app and changing numbers to see how each affects CSI - that helps you understand the pool and what levers you need to pull to maintain CSI proper range. Good Work!!!!

Thank you for the great explanation of CYA and FC at the swg levels.

Is having my CSI negative that much bad for a new pool? I’m about 40 days in from startup and my CH is from fill water, I didn’t add any. With that being said, I should I leave CH?

Also, is it an issue if my ph drops to 7.5-7.6 for a day throwing the csi below -.30? My PH bounces back within a day or two.

The only thing I thought that would help with my csi is increasing the TA.

 

[proavia]

Don't increase your TA. A higher TA will cause the pH to rise faster.
Shoot for a TA of 60-70 and a pH of 7.8-7.9
That should keep your CSI in the 0.00 to -0.30 (negative 0.30) range.
A short excursion out of that CSI range is okay.

 

[Tom09]

I’m just thinking, I understand the lower FC because smaller doses, and liquid Chlorine is higher due to the bigger dose at once. With that being said, an avg loss happens each day. Couldn’t you bring up the FC to say 6 and the SWG will cover the loss of the day so your FC level will never fall behind a certain level? I am trying to understand that. Right now I add liquid chlorine and I know my avg daily loss so I can add without checking. My avg loss should be generated in the swg or I maybe mistaken. By the way I haven’t calculated what it will generate yet.

I’ll probably be using more MA with a swg I’ve read, should I purchase baking soda to increase my TA if it drops since the MA will be bringing it down or should it stay about the same?

 

[proavia]

Don't purchase any baking soda until you need it.

Dose the pool to the high side of target range for your CYA Using liquid chlorine.
Run the SWG so FC never gets lower than the low end of taget.
Never ever let the FC get near minimum.

 

[HermanTX]

Couldn’t you bring up the FC to say 6 and the SWG will cover the loss of the day so your FC level will never fall behind a certain level? I am trying to understand that. Right now I add liquid chlorine and I know my avg daily loss so I can add without checking. My avg loss should be generated in the swg or I maybe mistaken. By the way I haven’t calculated what it will generate yet.

You are on the right track. You want the SWCG to generate sufficient FC to replace your daily loss. On the
PoolMath app you can use Effects of Adding and select SWG. You can select pump run time, % output of SWG or FC needed. You input 2 of the 3 and calculate the 3rd.

I’ll probably be using more MA with a swg I’ve read, should I purchase baking soda to increase my TA if it drops since the MA will be bringing it down or should it stay about the same?

If you have your TA in the 60-80 range then your pH may stabilize. You should need no more MA using a SWG then with LC.

If you were moving from chlorine pucks to a SWG then you are correct that you may use more MA because pucks include acid whereas LC does not.

 

[Tom09]

Don't purchase any baking soda until you need it.

Dose the pool to the high side of target range for your CYA Using liquid chlorine.
Run the SWG so FC never gets lower than the low end of taget.
Never ever let the FC get near minimum.

View attachment 530476

Thank you, the minimum should be changed to the target range. I bumbled up my FC yesterday to maybe 7ish, I guesstimated it and will check today.

My CYA isn’t in range, haven’t tested but I added some the other day which should be about 50 if the math worked. I thought about 50 since the summer days is coming to an end, but maybe my logic is incorrect? I was going to see how it did first.

 

[Tom09]

You are on the right track. You want the SWCG to generate sufficient FC to replace your daily loss. On the
PoolMath app you can use Effects of Adding and select SWG. You can select pump run time, % output of SWG or FC needed. You input 2 of the 3 and calculate the 3rd.


If you have your TA in the 60-80 range then your pH may stabilize. You should need no more MA using a SWG then with LC.

If you were moving from chlorine pucks to a SWG then you are correct that you may use more MA because pucks include acid whereas LC does not.

I haven’t played with the SWG settings yet on the app. Something to do now. Does lower salt levels play apart in the chlorine generation?

I haven’t used pucks in my pool, it was LC and MA. Every day I add LC now reading I could have been at the higher end of the range. I was always doing the recommended and it would be about 3 ppm for startup but it would drop during the day beyond the minimum.. guess I’m ok but gosh the company startup guide could of had an algae outbreak.

 

[Tom09]

Another note, my city water shows copper, I took my water to two pool stores , one showed no copper, the other showed 0.2 or .3 I was reading that the water can be a blueish color on a white back ground.. my tile is a light color but I assume the blueish color is from my finish. How I can tell if I have a copper? unfortunately I don’t know if I can do Anything since it’s my fill water. Also, would the ch fading point be a tell sign? This may need smother thread

 

[mknauss]

Does lower salt levels play apart in the chlorine generation?

As long as the salt level of the pool water is within the operating parameters of the SWCG, it will create essentially the same FC as per your generation settings.

Another note, my city water shows copper, I took my water to two pool stores , one showed no copper, the other showed 0.2 or .3 I was reading that the water can be a blueish color on a white back ground.. my tile is a light color but I assume the blueish color is from my finish. How I can tell if I have a copper? unfortunately I don’t know if I can do Anything since it’s my fill water. Also, would the ch fading point be a tell sign? This may need smother thread

Pretty rare that municipal water has significant copper in it. More likely iron.
Typically copper shows up as blonde hair and fingernails turning green. Or staining.
The CH fading end point can be magnesium, iron, etc.

 

[Tom09]

As long as the salt level of the pool water is within the operating parameters of the SWCG, it will create essentially the same FC as per your generation settings.

Pretty rare that municipal water has significant copper in it. More likely iron.
Typically copper shows up as blonde hair and fingernails turning green. Or staining.
The CH fading end point can be magnesium, iron, etc.

Here is my city water again.

Should I try poly fill that I see posted here.. never thought about doing it. Both pool stores show no iron and only the one store shows .03 copper and had .02 last time. When I did my initial fill I added sc-1000 scale and metal control. Not sure how long it lasts in the water… I have the Wetedge cadet blue so stains maybe harder to see?

 

[proavia]

A CYA of 50 will be fine until the temps start warming up next spring.
Just keep the FC toward the high side of target for CYA 50 for now.

 

[mknauss]

No need to use polyfill. It will not capture anything unless you have iron present and precipitated.

Just go about managing your pool water chemistry per TFPC. Not sure where you are in Cen California, but you likely will get some winter rain that dilutes things, if necessary.

 

[Tom09]

No need to use polyfill. It will not capture anything unless you have iron present and precipitated.

Just go about managing your pool water chemistry per TFPC. Not sure where you are in Cen California, but you likely will get some winter rain that dilutes things, if necessary.

Thank you, yes we get rain in the winter. It depends though, last year was finally one winter where we got heavy rain fall. It just depends.

Is it very noticeable when it happens? Just trying to tell based on my color.

Here is the picture of the color, but I’m kind of hijacking the thread on multiple topics, my apologies. I’ve inquired about this before, the debris on my surface… this is right now and you can see it. I have my pump at 1500 rpm right now, and it just depends on the day. It may be clear or the debris across the top. I have my jets pointed downward a little, not much. Do I need to aim that at the surface to move the debris? I don’t want an increase in PH. The material won’t be captured in my net.
You can zoom in to see the debris

 

[Tom09]

A CYA of 50 will be fine until the temps start warming up next spring.
Just keep the FC toward the high side of target for CYA 50 for now.

Thank you. I’ve read cya doesn’t dissipate, it remains in the pool, however some articles here state it will go down over time even without overflow, splash out, etc. what’s your thoughts?

If my FC does drop is it a problem to use LC with a swg or will that do damage to the cel? Would I shut it off first, etc? I still have 7.5 gallons. I need to check where I am currently. I add about 30-40 oz a day.

 

[proavia]

CYA can drop maybe 5-10 ppm per month (sometimes more) - usually in hotter weather for me.

You can add liquid chlorine at any time, the SWG doesn't care.
Right before and right after a large bather load (especially kids) is common.
Once you get the SWG dialed in, it's really easy to maintain the FC level.

 

[Tom09]

Alright did a full test again, CH appears a bit higher because I’ve been reading about a baby blue color, but again that’s the test I hate the most. Never gotten it 100% but what gets me is my TA is 90 instead of 70 and my ph appeared to be above 8 from yesterday which was around 7.7. Not sure why the jumps over night. I did test a little over than I normally test, I doubt that would cause a drastic jump. Both shouldn’t be a dead spot, there’s a bench in the deep end and I do it further to the side and just in front.

The only thing I’ve done differently was bump the fC higher yesterday and added the cya couple of days ago..

I just added some MA to drop the ph to 7.7-7.8 I’ll check it in a little bit but this is what the calculator shows when it drops. Also my cya black dot was a bit visible even at 40 barely. Not sure if I did it right. I read the testing instructions but I am also trying to find where there was a section talking about cya testing where you should let it sit, but can not locate it.

Based on the math of what’s been added for cya I should have 52 and what’s been lost for the 47ish days since fill. I feel that the dry stabilizer I bought wasn’t that good, but I don’t think it goes bad… it’s from Leslie’s and mfg in Jan of this year.

 

[JamesW]

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[proavia]

For the CH and TA tests, keep adding drops until the color no longer changes. Subtract the last drop that did not change the color.