Suggestions for Layout of New SWCG

DanF

Silver Supporter
Mar 17, 2019
289
Chandler, AZ
I'm leaning toward picking up a Circupool RJ30+. I'd like to try and install it myself. I'm pretty handy with PVC from the numerous irrigation fixes I've had to make over the years, but I may need a hand with the wiring to my 230V pump.

Anyway, looking for ideas on how to re-build the PVC from my filter to the return in order to accommodate the RJ30. I looked at the manual online, and it seems like roughly 32" of straight pipe is needed: 12" prior to the 4" flow switch, then the 16" cell.

Attached is a photo of my equipment. It's a pretty simple layout, but I'd like to raise the pool return line so access to the SWCG is easier, if that makes sense.
Thanks in advance for your help.

Pool Pad.jpg
 

HermanTX

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
771
Katy TX
Great idea to go to SWG. I am thinking the same and also contemplating how to run my pipework. Mine is a little more cramped than your layout. For yours, can you turn the ell upwards where the straight pipe from the filter turns downward for return. Then go vertically straight up to your desired height, make an ell that parallels the return of the water feature. This straight can be elevated as you indicated to access the SWG. This is where you would install the flow switch & SWG, then after the SWG, make a u-turn (a set of 90's) back to the vertical return (in the ground). You may consider sweeping ells rather than standard right angles.
 
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DanF

Silver Supporter
Mar 17, 2019
289
Chandler, AZ
Thanks Herman! Hadn't thought about putting the ell where the straight pipe turns down for return. Actually thought about putting the ell at the point the straight pipe leaves the filter, but I like your approach better. What's the benefit of sweeping ells versus straight 90s?
 

mguzzy

Gold Supporter
Jul 8, 2015
2,385
OV, CA
I think once you get the cell in your hand and see how it orients it will make more sense. I like extending the pipe straight out from the filter for the SWG and doubling back or going up and then back down with a vertical install. A vertical install will take up less room from the stand point of a sticking out from the pool valves. I'm not sure if there is a traffic area or lawn more danger there.. just thinking out loud.
 

HermanTX

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
771
Katy TX
Thanks Herman! Hadn't thought about putting the ell where the straight pipe turns down for return. Actually thought about putting the ell at the point the straight pipe leaves the filter, but I like your approach better. What's the benefit of sweeping ells versus straight 90s?
Sweeping ells have a long arc to make the 90 rather than a hard (short) 90 turn. See example here. It just allows better flow dynamics but not critical. it appears you have the space so that is why I mentioned it. I made the assumption that you wanted to keep the SWG on a horizontal pipe. Some others have put it on a vertical pipe because of lack of space but would need to ensure your SWG can work in vertical position. It appears you have lots of space from left to right so based on what I can see the horizontal installation should work. The SWG (in horizontal plane) would be in front of the water feature return pipe but higher so you should be able to reach all valves and also have easy access to the SWG.
 

Dirk

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TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
7,102
Central California
If the SWG instructions state you can mount vertically, see if they also state which end goes up, or if there is a separate flow switch, which is the preferred orientation for that. Some SWG flow switches work better one way than the other when installed in a vertical pipe. It's something to do with gravity on the switch paddle. You don't want gravity closing the switch when there is no flow.

If you angle the 90s correctly, you won't need more than three (equal to the three you'll be cutting out) so your new elbows won't increase the flow resistance.
 

-MacGyver-

Active member
May 17, 2016
43
Rochester, NY
As an FYI - Most sweeping ell's are the DWV variety and not intended for pressure use, like pool plumbing. The difference is the glue surface at the joint, DWV have around 1", and in some cases (depending on MFG) the thickness of the material. Though both are Schedule 40, this indicates the dimensions, they are not the same.


You should use pressure rated fittings for pool plumbing.
 
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Dirk

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TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
7,102
Central California
As an FYI - Most sweeping ell's are the DWV variety and not intended for pressure use, like pool plumbing. The difference is the glue surface at the joint, DWV have around 1", and in some cases (depending on MFG) the thickness of the material. Though both are Schedule 40, this indicates the dimensions, they are not the same.

You should use pressure rated fittings for pool plumbing.
Most excellent warning, thanks for remembering that! Most if not all sweep fittings you'll find at Lowes or HD will not be the right ones, you generally have to order them online, like from a pool supply. Don't overthink the sweeps. I like them, and would use them, (have used them) but as pointed out, you can likely plumb in the SWG without increasing the total number of elbows on your pad, so troubling with the sweeps is not going to accomplish anything noticeable.
 

DanF

Silver Supporter
Mar 17, 2019
289
Chandler, AZ
Most excellent warning, thanks for remembering that! Most if not all sweep fittings you'll find at Lowes or HD will not be the right ones, you generally have to order them online, like from a pool supply. Don't overthink the sweeps. I like them, and would use them, (have used them) but as pointed out, you can likely plumb in the SWG without increasing the total number of elbows on your pad, so troubling with the sweeps is not going to accomplish anything noticeable.
Good advice, Dirk. I think I will check out what HD/Lowe's have for 2" 90 sweeps, and if they are the drain-waste-vent(DWV) type then I will see if I can get the non-DWV online. Not gonna spend a lot of time on it though, given the benefit may not be there. Thanks.
 
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mguzzy

Gold Supporter
Jul 8, 2015
2,385
OV, CA
Not gonna spend a lot of time on it though, given the benefit may not be there.
From what I have seen discussed on this forum about the hydrodynamics of different piping approaches, No, you will not see a difference. Not from adding one or two ells to your over all plumbing. You would notice a difference if all the plumbing was done with sweeps, and even then it seemed to be up for debate.

So I would approach from the standpoint of which kind of sweep will allow you to make the addition of your SWG fit best and not about getting better flow.
 
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DanF

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Mar 17, 2019
289
Chandler, AZ
It looks like I will have 5 ells with the addition of the SWG:

1 pointing up on the filter return
1 pointing to the right which will begin the long section of straight pipe
2 after the SWG to make the U-turn back to the pool return
1 back to the return

I now have 3 ells, so would be adding 2. Seems like with just 2 more I shouldn't see a flow difference, assuming all 5 were right-angle ells (not the sweeping ones)? But...how would I know after the install whether the flow was the same? I could take a filter pressure reading before and after, but the after reading might be influenced by the presence of the SWG perhaps? Or am I overthinking again? :(
 
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Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
7,102
Central California
Overthinking again. ;) Two extra elbows would probably not even be measurable. But I was thinking three, not five.

1 pointing up.
2 for the "u-turn" at the top, then straight down to the return pipe.

The flow switch and SWG would be mounted in the vertical sections.

I think what you're describing would place a few horizontal pieces in front of the row of valves, making them harder to access.

Did you find out if the SWG can be mounted vertically?
 
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DanF

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Mar 17, 2019
289
Chandler, AZ
Thanks for the different approach, Dirk. For some reason I had always pictured the cell running horizontally but I will look into what you suggested, including seeing if the cell can be installed vertically.

I don't access those row of valves often; they're kind of a "set and forget" but as soon as I say that they'll need replacement LOL.

Thanks again for your input.
 

Dirk

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TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
7,102
Central California
There's the stress to consider as well. The vertical structure would be stronger than the horizontal one, which will kinda be hanging out there is space, causing a bit of stress on the elbows.
 

DanF

Silver Supporter
Mar 17, 2019
289
Chandler, AZ
True on the horizontal pipe stress, but since the cell is designed for horizontal installation with a 32" run, most owners are already dealing with this, no?

Also, for a vertical install I would need the pipe attached to the first ell to be, say 20-24" tall (need to take some measurements to confirm that). Would my pump be able to shoot water that high with sufficient pressure to go through 2 more ells prior to the cell?
 

mguzzy

Gold Supporter
Jul 8, 2015
2,385
OV, CA
Dont forget the length of the cell is included in that run for the flow switch. .. I like dirks vertical install .. I think it will stick out less and be an easier to service. Also make sure you give your self enough room to service those valves if you ever have to take one apart... just sayin.
 
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mguzzy

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Jul 8, 2015
2,385
OV, CA
This is from the RJ installation manual:
When positioning the Flow Switch, ensure at least 6 to 12” (30cm) of straight pipe before the Flow Switch. If installed after the Electrolytic Cell, the Cell provides this space. The raised arrow on the black plastic hex-top must be pointed with the direction of water flow as it returns to the pool. If installed horizontally, ensure that the wire-side faces upwards. The Flow Switch is approximately 4" in length; the typical plumbing gap required is 1 ¼".
 
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Dirk

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TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
7,102
Central California
True on the horizontal pipe stress, but since the cell is designed for horizontal installation with a 32" run, most owners are already dealing with this, no?
Not always. Mine lays on the concrete pad. Others have the horizontal run start from, say, the filter, and end going into the ground several feet away, so it's supported on each end. If you want yours horizontal (or it has to be the way), you can always rig up some sort of support on the hanging end if you find it's a little too wobbly.

Absolutely no worries about the flow making it up and back. My pump sends my water all the way to my roof, through hundreds of feet of solar panels and back again. And in fact, my pump only has to overcome the friction of the pipe. Think about it like a siphon. The water coming down is pulling the water going up. The pump isn't even working that hard. Your short little climb of a couple of feet is nothing for a pool pump. You're way to worrying about your flow, and way underestimating the power of your pump. Depending on your pump and plumbing, you could push 50 to 100+ GPM, that's gallons per minute: like a gallon or two every second! That could empty your entire pool in a few hours. 🤯
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
7,102
Central California
If mguzzy has pointed us to the correct manual for your SWG, you can mount it vertically. The manual refers to an optional kit for that orientation, though I'm not sure what that's about. You might check on that, and read the installation portion of your manual to give you some ideas about what's going to be best for your setup.