Suction Cleaner with only 1 Skimmer

[Ejosh87]

Probably 13,000 to 14,000 pool size.

For suction: we have a main drain and 1 skimmer to our pump. Then a few returns going back into the pool.

- If I was to leave the suction cleaner (Zodiac MX8 Elite) in the pool, it uses the skimmer's suction so there is no skimmer action. Do any of the products like Vac-Mate or SkimmerMotion work, where they basically claim to allow both skimming action and suction from the cleaner simultaneously? I see the reviews are very mixed and assuming it may decrease the suction to the point where both barely perform but wasn't sure.

Trying to think of a solution that would allow me to leave the suction cleaner in the pool at times without the water surface getting dirty. The pool is screened in but does receive very small debris/nats/etc.

- Also is there any negative to fully closing the main drain? Right now I have it 3/4 closed but wondering if better to close it and keep full suction to the skimmer inlet if no negatives to that.

- Lastly, is it ok to remove the cleaner hose from the suction port in the skimmer while the pump is running (to change back to the skimmer, without having to shut off the pump)? Removing it, and quickly putting the skimmer basket back in.


Thanks for any suggestions/opinions. I'm fairly new to this but been learning at lot from TFP.

 

[Davegvg]

You can open the flowkeeper valve to a middle or low position - this way a % of the flow will be directed to the skimmer.
A hole in one basket works well here.

Since the vac plugs right into the intake port - not much changes - the flow keeper may pull a bit from the main vs skimmer

You can remove and insert the vac into the skimmer with eth pump running - just be mindful about it lower RPM if you can.

The vac mate was poor quality

The skimmer motion doenst work well with diaphragm type cleaner, but is ok at a single speed with a geared cleaner like an MX8/ poolvergnugen and is very sensitive to speed changes making solar work poorly with it. Im not a fan.

 

[Ejosh87]

You can open the flowkeeper valve to a middle or low position - this way a % of the flow will be directed to the skimmer.
A hole in one basket works well here.

Thanks for the information. I was thinking of buying the hole in one skimmer basket. However, when I use the Zodiac MX8 and have the flow regulator on 3, it doesn't seem to really skim much, nor is there enough suction for the cleaner to climb any walls. I'm assuming if I move it to 5 (the max setting) then the surface wouldn't get any suction at all?

The other option is I could completely close the main drain and put all the suction to the skimmer inlet, then I think both will work together. I'm just not sure if the skimmer suction will be strong enough even at that unless I lower flow regulator to 1-2.

With the hole in one basket, wouldn't things that are in there just fall through the small hole when removing the basket? I also don't have a flap on my skimmer, instead,

I have that circular cylinder that floats above the skimmer basket (floating weir) so I don't know if that will make everything not fit properly with the suction hose, basket, and that floating cylinder.

EDIT: I'm thinking I'll turn the valve to close the main drain completely so all suction goes to skimmer inlet. Try the Hole in One Skimmer Basket and attach Zodiac MX8 suction cleaner (hopefully able to use 1-2 setting on the flow regulator to give enough suction to surface skimming). Is there any negative/risk of leaving the valve for the main drain completely closed (i.e. stagnant water in lines, pressure, etc)? I know I'm not supposed to leave the suction cleaner in 24/7 but I wanted to try leaving it in most of the time (part of reason I got suction cleaner instead of more expensive robot for now since less worry if something does go wrong).

 

[Davegvg]

On the hole in one - I used to buy a second basket and just cut a hole - I remove the whole thing at once the separate the two out of the water. If you are stopping the pump its pretty easy to move the detritus out of the way with a quick sweep of your hand.

I don't think you'll have a main drain problem if you just close it off completely.
Maybe one a year you flush the line.

Not sure I've seen the wier you are describing - take a snapshot if you can.

You are going to have to balance between flow to the cleaner and suction fro the flow keeper.

I leave all my suction cleaners in for weeks if not months at a time.

I tend to run it for a day or so then unplug it and let it sit in the pool and skim for 2-3 days then plug it in a day ....


UD

 

[Ejosh87]

Thank you for the great information/help.

 

[Davegvg]

Always happy to help.

I leave this setup like this for months unplug and skim a few days plug it in and clean a day unplug ......

Takes seconds.

My experience is that gear and track/ wheel cleaners are more sensitive to continuous chlorine than the diaphragm type cleaners.

I wouldn't leave my MX8 in perpetually like I do the T5/G3

UD

 

[Ejosh87]

So it turns out I do have a separate vacuum port after all . Hmmm tempting to be able to leave the Zodiac mx8 elite in there most of the time to keep cleaning the bottom (and easier since don't have to keep taking hose apart), but will see how often vacuuming is necessary. With the VS pump at least I can make it only go at a high RPM for 2 hours daily but guess it depends more on if the chlorine will cause problems.

 

[Ejosh87]

I tested out using the separate vacuum inlet today but it barely moves the Zodiac MX8 Elite suction cleaner. The only thing I can think is to close the inlet either fully or slightly that goes to the main drain/skimmer so the suction goes all to vacuum, but is that dangerous/risky for any reason to equipment/pump/etc?

The attached pictures are my plumbing setup (the left unlabeled valve to the left of the spa drain is the vacuum inlet). Can I close the valve inlet under it completely and just have everything go to vacuum? Or even close the bottom inlet slightly or is that not meant to happen?

 

[mknauss]

You will most likely need to pinch off the skimmer/main drain quite a bit for the vac to work.

You can close the main drain completely or nearly completely if you like. The main drain is not needed.

 

[Ejosh87]

You will most likely need to pinch off the skimmer/main drain quite a bit for the vac to work.

You can close the main drain completely or nearly completely if you like. The main drain is not needed.

Ok thanks, I will try that first and see if any difference just from the main drain completely closed. If not, is it ok to turn that bottom valve to close both the skimmer & main drain completely (basically OFF pointing up at the bottom valve)? Wasn't sure if any reason that is bad for equipment or anything...

 

[mknauss]

You can as long as the vac line is on. But I suspect you should be able to leave the skimmer valve open a bit.

I suspect this system was built with a large single speed pump and the VS pump has replaced it? The set up, with the vac, will need high pump rates.

A robot will work much better and lessen your electricity expense.

 

[Ejosh87]

You can as long as the vac line is on. But I suspect you should be able to leave the skimmer valve open a bit.

I suspect this system was built with a large single speed pump and the VS pump has replaced it? The set up, with the vac, will need high pump rates.

A robot will work much better and lessen your electricity expense.

Yes that is correct regarding single speed to VS Pump replacing it (we replaced it a year ago). Unfortunately, I had just bought the suction cleaner a few weeks ago (impulse on sale etc). I'll make sure in the future to keep an eye on switching to robot eventually (would hate to have the suction cleaner go to waste already).

As for the robot saving electricity, to understand that better, is it because then the pump can basically always run on low RPM? For example, right now I have it doing:

3000 RPM - 2 Hours
2,000-2,200 RPM (right now been 2,100) - 4 Hours
1,700 RPM - 2 Hours


With the main drain fully closed, skimmer 100% open and vac 100% open, the rotations are like 45-50 per 10 seconds, instead of the recommended 20-25 for the Zodiac mx8. I'll leave it as-is for now and tomorrow play around with the valve a bit.

 

[mknauss]

The robot saves electricity because it is not pool pump powered. As you do not have a SWCG, your pump only needs to run to distribute the chemicals you add each day and for skimming. So as little as a couple hours a day to as long as you want at the minimum rpm to facilitate skimming.

 

[Ejosh87]

The robot saves electricity because it is not pool pump powered. As you do not have a SWCG, your pump only needs to run to distribute the chemicals you add each day and for skimming. So as little as a couple hours a day to as long as you want at the minimum rpm to facilitate skimming.

Oh ok so with a robot I could basically have the pool pump only run for a couple of hours (or less) to redistribute the Chlorine being added. And then as needed if surface dirty for skimmer. But assuming if I upgraded to SWG later then robot loses some of that advantage since I would have to run pump anyway for longer to allow SWG?

 

[mknauss]

With a SWCG you would need to run the pump long enough to generate the chlorine. But at a much reduced rpm versus the suction cleaner.

 

[Ejosh87]

So I have been playing around with this and a little unsure how to properly rotate this 3-way valve to fully close the main drain, & slightly close the inlet/skimmer (First Picture attached). I checked under the Jandy Handle and it does have a Shut Off Stop, but the piece on the handle was purposely broken off to allow the inlet to be fully closed (otherwise it would have stopped once you tried to turn the OFF past 180 degrees to cover the Inlet) since you can then use just the Vacuum line or Spa Drain line. Is there a reason there was a Shut Off Stop or is that just how they come and breaking it off was ok? I'm assuming then if I turned the OFF to cover half the Inlet, with OFF 45 degrees between Inlet & Main Drain that would basically be allowing Skimmer at 50% suction and rest would go to the vacuum line.

Then in future when I want to use Spa Only for heating, I would just fully close inlet, close vacuum, and open Spa Drain?

Lastly, in regular daily pool mode, I noticed the returns are set to fully open for both Spa and Pool jets. Is there any reason it should be more towards one or the other or is mixed best? (Second Picture attached)

 

[mknauss]

The three way valves have a safety stop so you cannot shut off one leg.

 

[Ejosh87]

The three way valves have a safety stop so you cannot shut off one leg.

That safety stop was removed though (broken off so the valve can rotate any direction). Since there would be no other way to close the inlet fully if it wasn't. I just want to make sure that is ok in this instance. Assuming it is since there is a seperate Vacuum line and Spa Drain also. Just triple checking so I don't break anything