Stain, scale? light green tinted water

Brianhempel

Silver Supporter
Mar 6, 2017
63
Rotonda Florida
#1
scale.jpg
Just finished slamming the pool. We ended the slam because we have no overnight chlorine loss in 5 nights, our CC is 0.5. The clarity and color has not changed at all in those 5 days. We got to the point where there is no way this is algae. Our pool and all of its parts are algae free. The water is clear, but has a very light green tint. Our pool has been horribly off balance for a very long time. (just purchased home in Oct.) was neglected before that and since then because we didn't know what we were doing. We have read over and over pool school, water chemistry, and many, many forums. If you can see in this picture (picture taken looking down the side of the pool) there is a line one side looks good the other does not. A few months ago, long before I found TFP, I found a scale remover product at Home Depot (don't remember the name, it was in a reddish pink bottle). I poured it in the pool along the side and it removed this staining. I stoppped using it, because I had no idea what I was doing and didn't want to create a new problem while fixing another one. We did the Vit. C test with FC 12, it did not remove or have any affect on the stain. Do the FC levels need to be out of SLAM for that test to be accurate? We also did the paper towels in the skimmer since our FC and PH was still high. Left it in there for 2 hours, came out as white as it went in. We have drained some of our spa into the pool and scrubbed the sides with bleach, it didn't change the staining at all. So that left us with scale from a poorly maintained pool. What have we overlooked? If I can still purchase the scale remover I used, (of course, letting you know what is in it and the name) would that be a wise course of action and is this staining keeping the water to become TFP clear and blue? I can see the reflection of a piece of dog hair floating on top on the bottom of the pool ( pretty clear). Advice? Please? We have previously and our signature information was posted at the bottom. This thread is not showing it. Our original post was Cloudy Pool
 

domct203

Bronze Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 3, 2015
3,959
CT
#2
Can you please post a complete set of test result, including:
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

Do you monitor CSI?

What is the water source for top off (city, well, etc)?

It would be very helpful to know exactly what product you put in the pool. Was it a 'made for pools' product, or just a generic scale remover?
 

Brianhempel

Silver Supporter
Mar 6, 2017
63
Rotonda Florida
#3
City water. Product was specifically for pools.
FC. 11. Finishing slam
CC. 0.5
pH. High. Finishing slam
TA. Can't test. Slam
CH. before slam. 250
CYA. 30


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domct203

Bronze Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 3, 2015
3,959
CT
#4
City water. Product was specifically for pools.
FC. 11. Finishing slam
CC. 0.5
pH. High. Finishing slam
TA. Can't test. Slam
CH. before slam. 250
CYA. 30


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Let the FC drop to 9ppm and get a full set of test results.

Crystal clear water that has a green tint (especially at higher FC levels), along with staining is usually an indicator of iron in the water.

One thing at a time. Let's get the name of that product you used, and a complete set of test results.
 

Brianhempel

Silver Supporter
Mar 6, 2017
63
Rotonda Florida
#5
Ok. We used the tfp test for iron. Negative unless inaccurate because of current levels. Used the vitamin c in a sock. Also put white paper towels in the skimmer basket for 2hours. Came out white.


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borjis

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 19, 2014
2,643
Pacific NW
#6
I don't know that I would rely on the TFP test for iron...I did that too a few weeks back (after my water in the deep end turned the color of yours after adding bleach)
and it didn't change color. Maybe not a high enough concentration of metals?

What I did do was replace 1/4 of my water then ran the pump over night...it was still slightly green so I replaced 1/4 more (my tap water doesn't have metals and it's still a mystery how it happened) and the water is clear again with no tint.

I only did that because it was the lowest cost option...$ 20 for the water.
 

Brianhempel

Silver Supporter
Mar 6, 2017
63
Rotonda Florida
#7
I don't want to replace 1/2 of my water if it is a scale issue and not iron. The scale remover I used removed it. I need to get rid of the staining as well as the green tint. Draining 1/2 my water will cost a lot more for me, our rates are high and won't fix anything but maybe color IF it is iron.


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Swampwoman

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Apr 27, 2012
3,845
Grand Rapids, MI
#8
So, just checking a few things in order to help you determine way forward:

1. How many days has it had the tint? Eg. Just the 5, or longer...and what was the last thing you did to the pool before it tinted?
2. Are you running your filter 24/7? What type of filter do you have?
3. Have you ever used an algaecide that might have had copper in it?
4. Do you have a heater?
5. If you suspect the pool was neglected before you bought it, do you happen to know if it "crashed" (no TA and ph down in the 4s-5s) when you opened it for the first time?
6. You referred to having no staining (after using the scale product) but the pic looks like you have staining to me. When you say you did the Ascorbic Acid/vit c test, you mean the stain did not lighten, right? because vit c test only tells you about stain, not tint ;)

So, most often, oxidized iron is the culprit for tinted green water, more rarely copper. Either can also stain, and then either can also combine with scale. Once there's scale over the metal stain, it can be tougher to clear.

In the case of scale or copper, MA (muriatic acid) in an application tool may work better. To test the theory, you could use a bit of dry acid in a sock if you have some that you se in the hot tub.

If water is cheap in your area, a bit of a reboot via 30-40% replacement might serve you well since you don't know what kind of stuff previous owner put in. Even if you ave metals, it will likely dilute the concentration.

7. What were your levels before slam, and what had you added on opening?

The foregoing info will help us get more specific in sleuthing this out.
Cheers to clear blue days ahead ;)
 

Brianhempel

Silver Supporter
Mar 6, 2017
63
Rotonda Florida
#9
It had the green tint and staining when we bought house in oct. yes, cartridge filter, pump has been running 24/7 since 10th or 11th of march. We have never used an algaecide. Solar heated. I have no idea if it crashed, I would guess yes. If you look at the picture, you can see a curved line going down the side, the left side has no staining the right side of line is stained. We live in FL, our pool never closes and is caged. Prior to slam, our levels
FC 7
CC 0.5
PH 7.4
TA 80
CH 260
CYA 40
We just purchased our Taylor 100 k2006 on the3rd of March. Prior to that we had pool person handling the pool. We were unhappy with the condition of the pool and found TFP and decided to learn to take care of our own pool.


f


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Swampwoman

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Apr 27, 2012
3,845
Grand Rapids, MI
#10
Ok, so no corroding heater/exchanger. That part is good news ;)

Here's what I might do in your shoes:

1. Purchase online lamotte instant iron test strips, test pool water and source water to see if you get a hint of color...don't use sequestrant until after you've tested. These tests aren't great, but might help guide your action. Precise iron testing is the holy grail f those with metals, but cost prohibitive.

2. Consider trying dry acid test on stain. If it lifts, it would be worth getting the "underwater acid wash tool" and using muriatic acid to clean the stain area. I will post the link: https://www.amazon.com/Purity-Pool-UAW-Underwater-Acid/dp/B00C7UGLFY

3. Once cleaned, immediately dose with a start up does of either Metal Magic or Jacks magic to sequester any metal released during treatment and to clear tint. The two brands are the most effective and we know what they're made of. If you have salt water generator, use jacks purple (not magenta) specifically.

4. If you're willing to change out some water and your water source isn't high in iron, the point I might do that is right after stain removal and immediately before adding sequestrant. That way you're not wasting sequestrant, and you're reducing metal concentration.

If your water source turns out to have iron, you might want to add mechanical filtration, eg a 10" Pentek filter with a reducing 25 micron to 1 micron filter to your fill spigot...cheap way to at least reduce the concentration of iron getting into pool if its in your source water.

With this series of steps, it doesn't actually matter if its iron (most likely) or copper (less likely but possible dependent on what others used on the pool). Either way, the stains should lift, the water change reduce concentration, and the sequestrant should bind the metals to eliminate the tint. But if its copper and not iron, I would swap out more water to get clear from it since its not something you'll be adding back via top ups.

Hope that helps you with a way forward.

(Note - the use of acid in this case is to either lift the scale if same is coating iron, or lift copper if its the cause of the stain.)
 

Brianhempel

Silver Supporter
Mar 6, 2017
63
Rotonda Florida
#11
Thank you for your help. We will give these things a try. We have a copy of our county's water testing, it doesn't show testing for iron. Will call them to see if they test for it or if they will test for us. Would the vit c test have been inconclusive with FC 12? Also, are you saying if this is scale it would not create a green tint only iron or copper? Or did I misunderstand you? I have dry acid. We use liquid to adjust PH. We will have to do that today to lower PH when FC comes down. How many hours after adding acid should we wait before adding more. When we adjusted a couple weeks ago, we did a little at a time.


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kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
36,013
Tallahassee, FL
#13
Brian! Dude that is one pretty pool! I love the whole thing! Swampwoman is THE best we have for this problem. Follow her directions and we should find the problem!

THANKS Swampwoman for helping! You are the BEST! :hug:

Kim:kim:
 

Swampwoman

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Apr 27, 2012
3,845
Grand Rapids, MI
#14
Hi Brian. What a pretty pool!
In answer to your questions:
The only thing that might make the vit c test inconclusive on a stain is if the stain is:
A) iron but has a layer of scale over it preventing to AA from getting to the iron OR
B) Sometime, copper ;)

2. If it were ONLY scale, your water wouldn't tint...but I'm not sure what "color" your water actually should be...some finishes create a turquoise color. If in your experience the water overall is more greenish than you've seen it, then yes, that is usually only related to iron or copper being free in the water at concentrations above .3 ppm.

Lastly, re application of acid, By your readings, your ph is already at 7.2. So no need to add acid at this moment...that's not what I'm suggesting.

Specifically, if you set a sock filled with dry acid on a stain for a while and the stain lifts, this means that direct acid application will lift the stain and suggests the stain is trapped by scale. This is especially true of "historic" staining. In that case, you would order the acid application tool and kind of "vacuum" (not really, but its a wand that siphons the MA for application) the stain areas with it....you're actually applying a BIT of acid directly to the stain with the wand.

So for that treatment, you'd want to start with slightly higher ph than you have now so that you don't drive it down toooo far during the treatment. Make sense?
 

Brianhempel

Silver Supporter
Mar 6, 2017
63
Rotonda Florida
#15
I did contact my water company and talked to an engineer and was told that there is no appreciable iron in our tap water as it is surface water. Whatever that means. The report lists copper at 0.0315 ppm. In the past several weeks we have replaced approximately 50% of our water. The pool is crystal clear at this point. You bring up a good point regarding the color. My wife and I have been wondering if this is just the color we have due to the surface. Depending on how much sun is on the pool, it transitions between turquoise blue and turquoise green. Don't want to be fighting something that just is. Thank you so much for your help. And yes, your suggestion for stain removal makes sense. Thanks again [emoji41]


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kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
36,013
Tallahassee, FL
#16
Brian it makes my heart happy to hear the water is crystal clear! You two did a great job getting it there. I have a link for you to give you an idea of how to keep it there:

Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule

Tweak it so it fits into your life. I also keep a journal of my test results. I even make note of big weather like heavy rain, cloudy day, HOT sunny day etc. After a while you will see patterns that will help you know your pool's needs and wants.

:hug: now go enjoy all of your hard work!!!!

Kim:kim:
 

pooldv

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Aug 10, 2012
24,993
DFW, TX
#18
A couple of more points about iron. Do you have an irrigation well that hits the pool? Those often have iron in them, especially in FL. Is anything orange outside that shouldn't be? Some folks in FL have lots or orange stuff outside due to iron in irrigation wells.

A low level of iron in source water or from an irrigation well can build up slowly over time to the point where it can cause staining. Iron will not evaporate from the pool with the water so the level will slowly rise over time.