Should plumbing be completely buried before concrete?

[Obi Uno]

We are approaching the concrete pour on our small FG build. Project was delayed by a month as the PB had to dig down to help fill in hollow voids under the pool floor (they decided to “hand set” and slide the pool into the hole rather than using a crane, resulting in a very uneven base).

Before we pour, is it OK for the flex plumbing shown in the photos to be exposed? Or should these be buried?

 

[revitup]

Are those pipes going to be encased in concrete?

 

[Obi Uno]

Are those pipes going to be encased in concrete?

As it stands right now, I believe they intend to simply pour concrete right over the plumbing.

This gave me pause, as I would have assumed the plumbing should be buried before concrete.

Is this something we should push back on? No idea if it is a problem, or normal.

 

[revitup]

First, I don't believe flex pipe is the correct plumbing for that application. It should be hardwall pipe. In any case, I don't think anything should run through the concrete deck. It should be routed down and out from the pool under the concrete in a trench.

 

[Obi Uno]

First, I don't believe flex pipe is the correct plumbing for that application. It should be hardwall pipe. In any case, I don't think anything should run through the concrete deck. It should be routed down and out from the pool under the concrete in a trench.

Thanks for the quick help.

Cut corners and strange decisions seem to be a regular occurrence with this build. I’ll push back on trenching the plumbing.

I doubt I would have much success in convincing them to re-plumb with rigid plumbing, so I will let that be.

 

[Tres Gatos]

If they encase the pipe in concrete that basically leaves a weak void which could possibly crack the slab along with breaking the pipes.

 

[sktn77a]

The deck should be decoupled from the pool. That applies to plumbing also. Get them to bury it before you pour.

 

[Rich D]

Cut corners and strange decisions seem to be a regular occurrence with this build.

Wow... Did you sign the contract with 'Rough And Shoddy inc." I think you have more issues then plumbing being encased. I am fairly certain you do not want that pool edge encased either. Hopefully @jimmythegreek could chime in on this one..

 

[Dirk]

I know 0.001 about this topic, but... It looks like the rebar is laying on the dirt in some places. Maybe they'll clean that up, but I'm pretty sure that's a no-no as well. The rebar needs to be encased, and there needs to be a specific minimum distance between the steel and the surfaces of the concrete, above and below, both for strength and to protect the bar.

Is this not being inspected? Inspectors should call all that out. If inspections are not required, that doesn't mean you can't still arrange for one. I think you need a second pair of eyes on this guy's work, on site, not just through this forum. If we can see this stuff in just a few pics, what else is lurking in your build?

 

[Rich D]

. Project was delayed by a month as the PB had to dig down to help fill in hollow voids under the pool floor

Can you describe how he filled in these voids under the pool without removing the pool.?
Did they just backfill with the loose on site soil with no compaction? If so the dirt will settle then the only thing holding up your deck will be that small lip on the fiberglass pool edge.

I realize at this point you just want to get this done and get ride of these guys, However I would have serious doubts about the longevity of any of this build. For the money you are spending you deserve a lot better.

 

[Dirk]

Good points, Rich. I now see a lot of loose soil. And rebar not tied. Maybe they're just not finished with the rebar yet, but that would only explain some of these flaws.

 

[Rich D]

Maybe they're just not finished with the rebar yet, but that would only explain some of these flaws.

Not sure your supposed to have the front lawn growing under the rebar.

 

[Dirk]

Not sure your supposed to have the front lawn growing under the rebar.

Right? Or a 2x12 holding up one corner?

I'm pretty much anti-contractor, so I always assume the worst. Does this guy specialize in, or only install, fiberglass IG pools? If so, my suspicion would be that he got into it because his skills are limited and in his mind a "prefab" pool would require a much smaller skill set than a gunite pool. In and out: dig a hole, slide in the pool "close enough level," quickie flex piping, slap a slab in however to hide everything, grab the check then on to the next one. Sorry, I'm projecting my own bad contractor experiences...

 

[Obi Uno]

Can you describe how he filled in these voids under the pool without removing the pool.?
Did they just backfill with the loose on site soil with no compaction? If so the dirt will settle then the only thing holding up your deck will be that small lip on the fiberglass pool edge.

I realize at this point you just want to get this done and get ride of these guys, However I would have serious doubts about the longevity of any of this build. For the money you are spending you deserve a lot better.

Background on the voids under the pool:
Pool was "hand set" set (slid into the hole by a group of 5 men - see photo below), backfilled with gravel (I insisted on gravel vs. sand) and the gravel was fairly well compacted.


Once the pool was filled, I walked the floor and noted a large area (about 4' x 6') sounding very hollow.

To correct this, the PB emptied the pool, dug a large trench to the depth of the floor on the side closest to the house (photo below, trench area outlined), and removed all of the backfill on that side. They spent the better part of a day shoving gravel underneath the pool floor using PVC pipes. Unfortunately I was tied up at work most of the day and couldn't take any photos.



This actually (mostly) corrected the problem and the pool floor is now acceptable.

I did not get to witness them filling in the trench, but was told they had separated the gravel backfill from the earth and used the same backfill material again. I doubt they compacted the backfill, however, as I did not see a tamper on site.

This is why you see some loose earth and loose re-bar. This section of rebar was cut away to allow digging the trench. My hope is that they either tie in that rebar or (more preferable, I would think) replace the entire lengths of rebar.

"Get it done" vs "Get it done right"
I hear you there. While we are certainly wanting this to be over with (the wife is not happy!), I would obviously much rather take additional time now and prevent future issues. This forum has been very helpful in learning on-the-fly, and having some idea of when to push back.

 

[Obi Uno]

I know 0.001 about this topic, but... It looks like the rebar is laying on the dirt in some places. Maybe they'll clean that up, but I'm pretty sure that's a no-no as well. The rebar needs to be encased, and there needs to be a specific minimum distance between the steel and the surfaces of the concrete, above and below, both for strength and to protect the bar.

Is this not being inspected? Inspectors should call all that out. If inspections are not required, that doesn't mean you can't still arrange for one. I think you need a second pair of eyes on this guy's work, on site, not just through this forum. If we can see this stuff in just a few pics, what else is lurking in your build?

Not many inspections as we are outside of the city limits. Only the electrical run and the bonding are scheduled to be inspected as far as I am aware.

That said, I would absolutely value a third party inspector. Do you have any recommendations on how to track one down?

Some quick googling mostly yielded results for homebuyer pool inspections, rather than inspectors during the construction phase.

 

[DJFaninTN]

We'd be having one heck of meeting there pool side with the contractor if that was my pool being built.

 

[Rich D]

In the pic you can actually see a big pile of stone they knocked in when trying to get the pool into the hole. The hole also looks very tight to try to get that pool in an leveled.

backfilled with gravel

I do not see any sign of gravel around the edges of the pool. I assume he just ordered X amount of gravel then used common fill when he did not have enough to finish the backfill?

Did he use a excavator to re-dig the side or did he do it by hand?

This actually (mostly) corrected the problem and the pool floor is now acceptable

I am not sure it would be acceptable to maintain any kind of warranty on the pool shell.
How far out of level is the pool?

 

[Dirk]

Not many inspections as we are outside of the city limits. Only the electrical run and the bonding are scheduled to be inspected as far as I am aware.

That said, I would absolutely value a third party inspector. Do you have any recommendations on how to track one down?

Thankfully the bonding is going to be inspected, so that's good. Never had to hire an inspector myself, as I'm "in town," but I'll brainstorm with ya. I'd ask the electrical inspector for some referrals. Or call the building dept of the city you're "outside of" and ask if they provide any inspection services for a pool. Or ask them if the guy that inspects pools "inside" the city limit can freelance, and hire him. Or call the manufacturer of the pool to see if they have a list of authorized or preferred installation contractors in your area and hire one of them to inspect your installation.

 

[cowboycasey]

This is your pool that you will have to deal with for the rest of the time you are there... a bad fiberglass pool install will give you troubles forever and they will not do anything to fix it...

If it were me I would have them start over doing it correctly, it is not your job to install the pool correctly but now it is your job to make them do it correctly... have them get everything inspected at each major step ( you have already found them not to be trusted, they will pay an inspector to assure you they did it correct )

1. pull the pool out and excavate the entire area of the pool and deck and ditches to pool equipment
2. dig sump pit and install 10 inch pipe and run power and backfill with gravel
3. use gravel in bottom of pool and tamp level, great TFP Wiki Gravel Around Pools - Further Reading
4. set the pool with a tractor or crane
5. backfill steps with gravel
6. install hard pipe in trenches with gravel below and on top of pipes
7. using gravel bring the deck area up to level
8. install raised rebar and tie in correctly
9 install bonding tying in pool, deck, rebar, pump and any lights installed
10. install coping
11. install deck not connected to coping

This is not an all inclusive list but a good start.. This is not supposed to be your job but now it is to make sure your pool is installed correctly...

 

[Dirk]

@cowboycasey, do you think the pool manufacturer would get involved? If the pool carries a warranty, and the manufacturer is the one that would honor it, would they be inclined to examine what's going on? I know pebble finish manufacturers sometimes send reps to job sites if there are problems, they meet with owner and contractor. Do fiberglass pool manufacturers do that? May be another reason for the OP to call the manufacturer...