Semi-recent renovation and now my waterfall leaks water

[mwpow3ll]

About 10 months ago we did a major pool renovation. Everything was re-done, the skimmer, plaster, coping, above ground plumbing, VS pump, Cartridge filter, Ozone, UV, control panel, and automated valves, except the underground pool plumbing and waterfall feature. As part of the renovation, the contractor checked the pool plumbing for leaks / pressurization. I was told everything was good, but I don't have any documented proof as this was a conversation in person.

Shortly after the renovation was completed, I noticed my waterfall feature was getting soaked and having lingering water on the rocks despite the waterfall valve not being on. At first I wasn't sure if this was residual rain or other water that didn't dry up due to the weather, but as we moved into the summer months, it became very clear that the waterfall was getting a trickle of water when it shouldn't. I further confirmed by watching the water level rise in the waterfall pipe when just the VS pump was on and waterfall was suppose to be off. It pushes about about 1" every 27 seconds for a 2-2.5" diameter pipe I believe.

I contacted the contractor to get the issue fixed under warranty and their plumber is claiming that when the waterfall feature was built, it wasn't properly graded and it sits below the plumbing and therefore is subject to back pressure resulting in the leak. I have issues with this because the waterfall never use to leak, and it seems more reasonable to me that the culprit would be a faulty Jandy valve / diverter.

Is this back pressure a real issue? How can I test myself to be certain I'm not being jerked around?

 

[mknauss]

Is the valve to the waterfall manual or actuated?

 

[Jimrahbe]

311,

Sounds to me like during the reno, they either removed an existing check valve, or their replumbing caused the waterfall to be below the water level.. Either way, it seems like your contractor should be responsible..

Easy to say, but hard to prove..

If this were my pool, I would get a quote from the contractor to solve the issue and then I would try to negotiate to get the repair done for free or some type of shared cost.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

Post some pics of the spa and pool so we can see the situation. Also pics of the valves controlling the spa.

 

[mwpow3ll]

I was thinking that if the actuator is faulty and isn't closing all the way, I could test by removing it and manually making sure the valve is fully shut? Shouldn't that be possible? Outside of that, I'm not sure what else to try...

Is the valve to the waterfall manual or actuated?

Actuated via Jandy Actuator and valve

Post some pics of the spa and pool so we can see the situation. Also pics of the valves controlling the spa.

Old Above ground equipment plumbing



New above ground equipment plumbing (slightly unfinished due to missing Ozone / UV filter on the far right):

 

[mguzzy]

Hmmm... There is something that doesn't smell right here? The pics of the old equipment don't look any higher compared to the new equipment and I assume the waterfall didn't change. Especially not a difference to explain a 1" per 30 second flow of water. You would have had to raise your pool equip by 5ft or more for something like that to happen. The physics are just not passing the smell test for me. If you have access to a transit you can shoot exactly how high your pool equip is compared to the waterfall (I assume that is it way over on the far side of the pool). It feels to me like there is a valve not closing all the way or it has a leak on that side since you said it only happens with the pump is running.

 

[mknauss]

I was thinking that if the actuator is faulty and isn't closing all the way, I could test by removing it and manually making sure the valve is fully shut? Shouldn't that be possible?

It is. That is why I asked if the valve was actuated. Remove the actuator and see if you can manually set the valve so you do not have the leak.

 

[mwpow3ll]

It is. That is why I asked if the valve was actuated. Remove the actuator and see if you can manually set the valve so you do not have the leak.

I took off the actuators and tried to manually re-position the diverter, but the waterfall continues to leak.

311,

Sounds to me like during the reno, they either removed an existing check valve, or their replumbing caused the waterfall to be below the water level.. Either way, it seems like your contractor should be responsible..

Easy to say, but hard to prove..

If this were my pool, I would get a quote from the contractor to solve the issue and then I would try to negotiate to get the repair done for free or some type of shared cost.

Thanks,

Jim R.

when you say the waterfall might be below the water level, what portion of the waterfall are you specifically meaning and which water level?

The new plumbing is about in line with the old plumbing, I posted some pictures above.

The contractor's original plumber that came out did want to install a check valve, but I told him I didn't think this would resolve my issue for two reasons:

• To my knowledge, a check valve simply prevents water from flowing back; it won't stop water from getting in, and this is my problem. Water is going to the waterfall despite the valve diverter having it blocked off.
• The plumber didn't have enough room to install the check valve horizontally, so he wanted to do it vertically. The problem is that a check valve installed vertically requires the flow of water to be moving up, and in my case, it was going to be moving down.

This plumber barely spoke english, and when I called the contractor to complain about the issue not being properly investigated and them just being reactionary, the contractor said the plumber said the waterfall was below grade and subject to back pressure which was never once communicated to me while the guy was on site and the reason why I am worried that they're jerkin' me around.

 

[mguzzy]

I took off the actuators and tried to manually re-position the diverter, but the waterfall continues to leak.
....

This plumber barely spoke english, and when I called the contractor to complain about the issue not being properly investigated and them just being reactionary, the contractor said the plumber said the waterfall was below grade and subject to back pressure which was never once communicated to me while the guy was on site and the reason why I am worried that they're jerkin' me around.

Have you popped open the valve cover to see if there is something stuck in the gate ? I found an old piece of PVC stuck in one of my spa Venturi jets once. just sayin.
If the water fall is the same and the pipes are within a few inches of elevation of where they were, it would not cause what you are describing. ALSO if it was a gravity feed issue it would not happen only when the pumps are on... it would happen all the time. I would get a clarification and a second inspection with someone that shares the same language as you.

 

[Jimrahbe]

M,

After looking at the plumbing I can't see how it could be a gravity issue either...

Can you post a couple more pics of your equipment pad at different angles.. And tell us how the values you have are supposed to work.. What does the return Jandy valve do? And what is the purpose of the ball valve.. Noting on the intake side should matter..

It is not obvious to Jandy Pro CL 580, me.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mwpow3ll]

Hmm... I am at a loss for words right now.

My test yesterday swapping the diverter valves failed as I was still getting a leak, but this morning, the waterfall wasn't leaking and didn't leak for the entire 4 hours the pump was on. I'm gonna keep watching it, but maybe swapping the diverter did help.

Have you popped open the valve cover to see if there is something stuck in the gate ? I found an old piece of PVC stuck in one of my spa Venturi jets once. just sayin.
If the water fall is the same and the pipes are within a few inches of elevation of where they were, it would not cause what you are describing. ALSO if it was a gravity feed issue it would not happen only when the pumps are on... it would happen all the time. I would get a clarification and a second inspection with someone that shares the same language as you.

Yes, I did not notice anything stuck though...

M,

After looking at the plumbing I can't see how it could be a gravity issue either...

Can you post a couple more pics of your equipment pad at different angles.. And tell us how the values you have are supposed to work.. What does the return Jandy valve do? And what is the purpose of the ball valve.. Noting on the intake side should matter..

It is not obvious to Jandy Pro CL 580, me.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I will try to take some more close-up shots sometime today.