sediment/pollon in pool, can't get it out!

JeffMD

Member
Jun 22, 2010
23
About a week and a half ago, I noticed some streaks of this brown dust on the bottom of my pool. I did an attempt to vaccume it but my pump is a pretty sucky 2500g/hr pump and the dirt dispersed into the water before it could get sucked up. 2 days later I go to check up on it and now it pretty much look as you see here (It hasn't gotten any better or worse over the course of the week).


(Images are scaled down on the web site, right click and view pic to see it bigger)

This stuff is annoying, it dosn't stick to anything and just settles to the bottom. for most of the week now I have left the vaccume hooked up so the intake source would be the bottom of the pool in hopes of nabbing this stuff as it settles, but it dosn't seem to be working. I've gone ahead and run the vacuum around stirring it all up into a cloudy mess to help with breaking it down as well as lift it from the floor, but nothing seems to work well. The chlorine levels in the pool are normal (its a small pool so pretty much any application will easily bring it to 2-4ppm). I've shocked it twice, the second being yesterday, but it dosn't seem to want to break down. It is really annoying stuff.

Here is some more pictures;





Here you can see the "bands" of dirt, showing that it is loose and just moves with the water action.

Unfortunately I had stired up the stuff to much and it was no longer sitting ontop of my hoses for a close up, but I got this from a pocket of my cover that has been hanging on the side of the pool all this time.



Anyone know what this is? Chlorine dosn't seem to be breaking it down at all, and I am not entirely sure if my filter filters it all as well. I have pulled it twice and washed out a bit of dirt that was concentrated around the nozzle area, but the large percentage of the filters area was still white, leading me to belive that alot of this is passing through it. Pretty much my next step is to run the vacuum hose (or detach the outlet hose) out of the pool and see how much dirt I can grab from the bottom and drain from the pool.

My geographic location is the eastern shore of fl if that helps any. I have some big trees near the pool but none are over it. Chlorine levels are usually kept between 2-5 ppm (not OTO), no idea how high they get when I am shocking. ph is 7.5. PH is very good at staying still. The pool is 1700 gallons.
 

mart242

LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2010
153
Ottawa, ON, Canada
I'm still a pool noob but I'd tell you to brush the pool then shock it based on your CYA levels which you'll have to find out. Once shocking is done, vacuum (maybe use the thing that sticks all small particles together, floculant or whatever the name is) and then you should be out of the woods.
 

JeffMD

Member
Jun 22, 2010
23
thus floculant thing has my interest peeked. something that causes dirt to clump better to be picked up by the filter?
 

Beez

LifeTime Supporter
May 19, 2009
785
Dallas, TX
Looks like algae to me...

You may have just enough chlorine in the pool to keep it from taking over completely, but I would be surprised if it doesn't turn totally green pretty soon!
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
Yea, that looks like plain old algea. You need to shock your pool, most likely.

How bout posting a full set of test results:

pH
FC
CC
TA
CH
CYA

How do you normally chlorinate? You said you shock it. What did you shock with and how much did you add?
 

JeffMD

Member
Jun 22, 2010
23
It isn't algea, it isn't sticking to anything. I swap between tri chloro pucks and regular bleach. Shock is granulated dichloro.

Ive allready posted the results that I have. FC is where ever I want it (2-4 ppm? use 2 pucks or splash some chlorine in. off the charts? mix in the shock). I of course keep it between 1-4. CC is rarly readable.. only once or twice did I hit a .5ish increase in color score, I have pretty much never needed to actually shock the pool, I only have on the occasion I let my FC drop to 0. Ph is 7.5 (It was around 7.1 until I manually changed it. This rarly changes on its own). No CYA scores.

I have added some clarifier and the stuff is now finally sticking to my filter (it is also keeping it suspended in the water now rather then falling to the bottem, so now the water stays cloudy). Now I need to just keep washing out the filter and make sure chlorine levels stay around 5 to keep anything else from going on. Now it seems the hard part is going out every 6 hours to hose the filter.
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
Saying you have FC to what ever you want it to be is not really helpful for us to figure out how much FC you need to clear your pool. What your seeing doesnt have to stick to anything for it not to be algea. Your pool is cloudy green, you have algea and not enough chlorine in your pool to take care of the issue. An FC elvel of 2-4 is not going to clear your pool. Adding floc will not fix the problem. Adequate chlorine will.

If you dont have a test kit, take the water to a pool stiore and give us the following:

FC
CC
pH
TA
CYA

We need the CYA number, even if its a pool store number, to determine how much chlorine you need to bring it to shock level. By using the dichlor and trichlor, you are adding CYA, making it more difficult to shock. You need to add some liquid chlorine (aka bleach) to start the process. Keeping the FC at 5 may or may not be the correct value. Even with a CYA value of 0, your shock level is closer to 10, not 5. Read How to Shock your Pool is pool school to see how to shock your pool properly. If you dont get an adequate chlorine level in the pool, it will never clear. If you want, you could drain and start over it's only 1700 gallons, so that might be an option for you.
 

JeffMD

Member
Jun 22, 2010
23
I have a test kit..I gave you the values of that test kit. Why do you need ta?

I'll give the benefit of the doubt and dump in alot of bleach tonight (its a small pool and id like to lay low on the stuff that adds cya after shocking) and keep the chlorine levels high while I filter things out. Not like it harms anything and bleach is cheap. ;)

However every time i've heard someone describe algea, a symptom is slimy walls.
 

Sportsman

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2010
233
Central Valley, CA
You don't have to add CYA when shocking. You should use bleach or liquid chlorine to shock. Shock is a process not a product.

Also, what do you mean "No CYA scores"? Does that mean you haven't tested or the water is clear? You need to know CYA to know shock level and the proper daily level needed.
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
The TA number can be helpful to know, especially if cloudy water is an issue, sometimes. High TA coupled with high CH can be a problem. Its just best to know all the parameters to give you th e best advice possible. You stated you dont know how high the FC gets when shocking. The idea IS to know how high the FC gets when you shock. What kind of test kit do you have? Do you test the FC using FAS-DPD? You stated the FC was measured without using OTO?

I'd bring the FC to 10 with bleach and hold it there until you can get a good CYA number to report back.
 

JeffMD

Member
Jun 22, 2010
23
I am using dpd... and the reason I don't know how high it gets is because the thing only goes as high as 5. I don't need nore plan to buy one that goes to 50 just for a 1700 gallon pool. ^^ CYA I don't have test for yet so its hard to get current results. I figure just as long as I don't abuse the dichlor and trichlor, I should be fine. I'll test TA, but I rarly have high CH unless I suspect a problem or let the chlorine fall to zero and put in a bunch to quickly bring it back up.
 

frustratedpoolmom

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
In The Industry
May 20, 2007
12,226
SWSuburban Chicago, IL
Based on the way the water looks in the pics - you have an algae situation...the sediment is likely dead algae that is settling on the bottom and you are staying one step ahead of a full blown bloom. Your water clarity is poor and the water has a very green tint to it.

You need an FAS-DPD test and you need a CYA number so you can shock properly.

Once you have an FAS-DPD test, you can do an overnight loss test, and if it drops by more than 1ppm overnight, you can confirm if this is algae or something else. (I do think it's algae though.)
 

Bama Rambler

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Jun 22, 2009
23,638
SouthWest Alabama
With your attitude you're never going to have a trouble free pool. There are several test results we need to determine what's going on with your pool. If you're not going to go to the expense and trouble to test the needed levels then. You should dump all the water out, clean with bleach and fill it back up.

You don't have to buy an expensive kit for a 1700 gal pool. Walmart sells a 6-way HTH kit that works great for pools as small as yours.

By the way, letting your FC go to zero even a little while will allow algae to get started. It doesn't have to stay there very long.
 

JeffMD

Member
Jun 22, 2010
23
I dont think walmart sells it anymore.. they had nothing more then the oto kit last time I went. My current kit is taylors pool and spa trouble shooting kit that I got at pinch a penny. It came with a cylinder I can use for the cya test, I just need to buy the chemicals for it.

I decided to empty a little more then 1/4th of the water and replace it with fresh water. this morning the chlorine level was 5+ and I even added bleach to that, tonight it was at 0. -_- So maybe my cya levels krept up to high. I pretty much emptied what was left in the jug I had gotten a few days ago and bought a new one tonight so hopefully I can keep up chlorine levels without resorting to the granulated dichlor. This has gone beyond some dirt in the pool and I have to agree everything looks like an algea bloom.

I also put the cover back on to help the bleach work better during the day.
 

benavidescj

LifeTime Supporter
Apr 27, 2010
431
Fleming Island, FL
JeffMD, without a proper test kit you will only be guessing at proper amounts of chemicals to add. You cannot use the cylinder in the trouble shooting kit to do CYA because it is not made for it. It does not have the graduations on the side nor the dot at the bottom to perform the test. The CYA test is not a drop test like the others.

Seems you came to this forum looking for help but refuse to do exactly what the experts are telling you to do. If you do what you are doing and "put a little of this and try a little of that" you may or may not solve your problem. The experts on this forum have tried to explain in pretty good detail what it is you need to do.

The trouble shooting kit is great if you don't have any "trouble". Since your pool is in trouble you need a better test kit, one that measures CYA, TA, pH, CH, FC, TC. The kit needs to do FAS-DPD because you need to shock and it has to be shocked at a certain level which your current test kit is incapable of doing. In order to shock you need to know your CYA or you won't know that FC level to shock and maintain. Yea, you can add a lot of bleach, but you won't know how fast the pool is eating it up and you may waste a lot of money trying.

You should start over and reread this post, which is trying to help you, and follow the recommendations of the experts. Don't do something different like taking part of your water out, or adding some bleach, or putting the cover on. As you follow the directions, exactly, post your numbers with a proper test kit and we can help you further.
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
JeffMD said:
I pretty much emptied what was left in the jug I had gotten a few days ago and bought a new one tonight .
A jug of what? Chlorine or CYA? Dont add any CYA while you are trying to shock. It will only make it more difficult to reach shock level.

JeffMD said:
this morning the chlorine level was 5+ and I even added bleach to that, tonight it was at 0. -_- So maybe my cya levels krept up to high. I pretty much emptied what was left in the jug I had gotten a few days ago and bought a new one tonight so hopefully I can keep up chlorine levels without resorting to the granulated dichlor. This has gone beyond some dirt in the pool and I have to agree everything looks like an algea bloom.

.
The reason your FC went from 5 to zero is because you have algea eating the chlorine, not because your CYA is too low. When you're shocking the pool, you need to keep the FC at or near shock duirng the entire process. Letting it drop to zero allows the algea to take hold again. If you keep repeating this cycle, your pool will never clear. Since it seems you are not willing or unable to follow the shock process, the best course of action is to drain the pool, clean it with bleach really well, and re-fill. We can. howeve, get you pool clean without draining, but you have to follow what we are telling you.
 

JeffMD

Member
Jun 22, 2010
23
Why does my attempting to keep the chlorine real high = not wanting to follow the shocking proccess? -_- I simply didn't want to use dichlor, although if you say that CYA reaches zero if chlorine hits zero (although afaik cya and chlorine are 2 different substances, you can have one without the other) then I shouldn't have anything to worry about with my cya levels? btw when I said 5+ I am talking higher then 5. I can't see what the number is, but it is greater then what my test can tell me. I am pretty sure I am sure I am throwing enough bleach in to bring it up to 10-20ppm.

Jugs of bleach.....cya does not come in jugs. Nore would I replace old water with fresh if I wanted to bring cya UP.

The bleach I put in over night is still going strong and I added more just now and hopefully tonight when I get back from work, it will have held. I know the algea fighting methods mentioned in the other board ask that you baby it every couple of hours or so checking cl levels.. but alas I work on weekends. :/
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
JeffMD said:
although if you say that CYA reaches zero if chlorine hits zero (although afaik cya and chlorine are 2 different substances, you can have one without the other) then I shouldn't have anything to worry about with my cya levels?
No one ever said that. Lower CYA is actually a bit advantagous while you are trying to shock. I think oyurs is probably high, however. But we dont know since you have refused to provide a CYA test number.

JeffMD said:
Jugs of bleach.....cya does not come in jugs.
Actually, the HTH CYA that comee from walmart comes in a jug of sorts. I was just trying to clarify.

JeffMD said:
Nore would I replace old water with fresh if I wanted to bring cya UP.
My point was that at 1700 gallons, it might be just as easy to replace your water completely and start over.

JeffMD said:
The bleach I put in over night is still going strong and I added more just now and hopefully tonight when I get back from work, it will have held. I know the algea fighting methods mentioned in the other board ask that you baby it every couple of hours or so checking cl levels.. but alas I work on weekends. :/
The point is, you are not shocking your pool using the methods we advocate. You can't shock properly without knowing your CYA levels, nor can you just dump in chlorine once in awhile and hope for the best. Proper shocking requires a proper FAS-DPD kit (even a 6 way kit using water dilution is better than nothing wiht a pool your size) and that you know your CYA level. You dont have to baby it every few hours either. Although its best to test and add bleach every so often, you can test and add bleach a couple times a day and have success. The key is to know your water parameters and know what to do with the results. You have yet to provide a CYA number. If you CYA is very high, the 10 ppm FC you think you at may not be near enough. We just dont have enough info.

So again, get a CYA number and mesure your FC. If your test kit doesnt go high enough, you can dilute the water sample with distilled water and do the dilution calculations. To be blunt, if you dont follow our advice on how to shock your pool, i'm not sure we can help you much. If you will follow what we tell you, you can clear your pool and the water will sparkle.
 

JeffMD

Member
Jun 22, 2010
23
I can't provide a cya number..i don't have the cya test. So work with me on this. If I just replaced a quarter of my water with new water, I doubt my cya is going to be really high. 10-20ppm is shock levels... 20 if cya is really high. I don't need to keep my cl at a specific level according to my cya, I can keep it at a high enough cl level that works for both high and low levels of cya.