science behind salt-CYA verses liquid bleach/cya connection-cost, health, science

BattleofYakima, Thank you. I do worry about the higher end of the FC, I will admit, even with having read about the science of balance of CYA/chlorine-I can't recall but I think it's not absorbed into our bodies that easily because of some chemistry stuff that others here feel confident about so I'm trusting (with 10% worry that lingers). I can't think of anything I said where I'm listening to others outside of this site but if I lead anyone to believe that or if I said that, that's not my intention. This site is very helpful and what else do I have-the pool store?! Noone has to talk me into at the least knowing they are bias and wanting to sell me products amongst other issues such as probably being people who are just there for a job and not trained in a scientific standard-they seem to have their own theories. I will admit, it's tempting right now since we've struggled with having to clean the salt cell every 3 weeks to wonder if TFP is for me but ultimately I don't see how it can't be. I need to understand how my pool works, so it seems like a no brainer. Even if someone uses pool tabs, as I've seen on this site, maybe while they went on vacay, it's not something that would seem to be a part of the TFP way, but they aren't going to mess up their pool cuz they understand they can't have their CYA go over a certain amt.

The comment I made about the metal corrosion was found on this site. Some things I read and I might not be reading correctly also, like the things at the bottom of pool math seeming to give different info than the #s where you input info, like what it says about TA requirements... then I read other pages on TFPs and find so much more info.

It's great info and a lot to retain, even after two years, so I'm very grateful I have great people here to guide me through cuz it has already "clicked" for all of you. Honestly, if my cell keeps filling with calcium every 3 weeks I'll really start doubting but it seems Matt has this figured out in this case that I didn't read about here regarding how algae effect salt cells. maybe i've had the algae for longer than i know. u're right, it doesn't make sense to play with having the lower number of FC. That, I have to become confident about. why hasn't someone invented a salt cell regulator where u can put in how much FC you want it to make and it'll do that? or maybe they have and it's too $$$. Maybe it wouldn't be as accurate as a human being but it'd be cool!

thx again

- - - Updated - - -

Matt, that's good to info to know. conservative. I'll measure again since we've been talking a lot about it. i recall feeling there was a gap between 40 and 70. it's close enough to noon and i have time, so i'll let u know what i came up with.
 
Matt, I don't have much CYA solution left so i want to make sure i get this right. kits says to mix. u say invert. i typically shake it to mix it. is that ok or do i just invert once (twice)? thx

I have NEVER liked that approach of rapidly shaking the solution. It creates tiny air bubbles that can mimic turbidity. I ALWAYS invert gently to mix, that is more than enough. The reaction between the melamine reagent and the pool water CYA is rapid and only requires 30 secs to form the turbidity from the melamine-cyanurate complex. There is simply no need to vigorously shake it.

- Invert to mix for 30sec
- Let sit for 30 secs
- Invert mix one more time then pour

That's what I do and I get very accurate results.
 
perfect. will do. and btw, my pool is overflowing a bit with bubbler on. it didn't rain here that i know of but water level is almost to the top. my leveler on automatic filler must be broken. not sure if an extra couple inches of water in pool messed up my over night loss #s. off to measure
 
If you suspect your auto fill is broken, then shut it off. Flooding your pool with fresh water is not going to help matters. In my pool, every inch of additional water above the halfway point of the water line tile is 300 gallons. So if my pool were to fill to the top of the tile line, that would be nearly 1000 gallons of water which would be a measurable percentage.

Turn off the autofill if it is constantly running...
 
CYA= first measurement about 62
2d measurement about 63
3rd time I poured the mixture back into the bottle= 58
4th time-poured mixture back into the bottle= 60.
so do i round up to 70 or stick with 60?

I think the reason i feel i have a hard time with this is the pool store was confident i have 80 and i didn't want to go to high by any means so i'm being conservative. realistically, though, to be pretty sure if i told someone who hadn't looked at the dot first to allow for brain tricks, they'd probably say closer to 63/65= round up to 70?
 
It's somewhere between 60-70ppm, just round up to 70ppm. Your shock level is 28ppm. You need to dose to that level and maintain it as best you can. Your equipment will be fine. Keep an eye on your DE filter pressure and be sure to backwash it if the pressure rises 25% above your least clean pressure reading (the pressure it read after you last cleaned it out). It doesn't sound like you have much algae to get rid of but DE filters can get plugged up easily. They are great filters for creating really polished and clear water BUT they are horrible for algae blooms.

Give the SLAM 24-48 hours before your start worrying about if you've passed or not. Just measure FC/CC and dose as needed. Come back in 2 days and let us know how it goes. Brush your pool daily (twice a day is nice) and try to keep leaves and junk out of it. Make sure the skimmers stay clean. Also, if you have the time, look into your autofill and see if there are any obvious problems. If your water level is high, plan to drain some off as you really don't want water up around the coping. Midway up the water line tile is where the water level should be.

Good luck.
 
JoyfulNoise :goodpost: that was one fantastic pre-SLAM pep-talk/reminders! I love it and expect to be quoting it into other threads to save myself some typing. Thank you!

outdoorsgal - You are very welcome! Thanks for clearing up a couple points and explaining a few more. Now that I have a really clear picture of what's going on, I'm proud to tell you that if I was the first Guide to find your thread and I was going to invite a couple experts/mods/more senior guides in to help back me up, almost everyone I'd invite is already here! You're in fantastic hands. Give it a shot for us and let's see if you become another TFP success story (again). Let's get your pool algae free, crystal clear, passing OCLT, and losing an acceptable FC per day. Then, your SWG troubleshooting/balancing/cleaning/whatever will be much easier.

I do agree, instead of setting % on swg, if it just had a built in auto-FAS-DPD test and just maintained the FC I set it at, that would be wonderful. Same with auto-bleach-pump. Even better if it measured CYA once a week and adjusted target FC for me too. And a MA pump with PH test.
Actually, I enjoy playing mad scientist, nevermind. :testkit::stirpot::lovetfp:

 
JoyfulNoise :goodpost: that was one fantastic pre-SLAM pep-talk/reminders! I love it and expect to be quoting it into other threads to save myself some typing. Thank you!

outdoorsgal - You are very welcome! Thanks for clearing up a couple points and explaining a few more. Now that I have a really clear picture of what's going on, I'm proud to tell you that if I was the first Guide to find your thread and I was going to invite a couple experts/mods/more senior guides in to help back me up, almost everyone I'd invite is already here! You're in fantastic hands. Give it a shot for us and let's see if you become another TFP success story (again). Let's get your pool algae free, crystal clear, passing OCLT, and losing an acceptable FC per day. Then, your SWG troubleshooting/balancing/cleaning/whatever will be much easier.

I do agree, instead of setting % on swg, if it just had a built in auto-FAS-DPD test and just maintained the FC I set it at, that would be wonderful. Same with auto-bleach-pump. Even better if it measured CYA once a week and adjusted target FC for me too. And a MA pump with PH test.
Actually, I enjoy playing mad scientist, nevermind. :testkit::stirpot::lovetfp:


that's funny, mad scientist. When you mentioned MA pump I sunk due to the maintenance/things that can go wrong with those systems from what I read here.

I sure hope I'll be another TFP success story! This isn't my first SLAM so that doesn't say a lot for my pool maintenance. I keep learning tho. Sometimes the hard way :drown:. Preventative would be so much easier. Even with that, everyone is very generous with their time, help, and guidance! Wow, I wonder how long I had algae, anyway. I'm hoping it was the beginning of all my salt cell issues, although I imagine it started with not balancing the water frequently enough and then algae, and then crazy cycle. We'll soon see! My kiddo might have some friends over for his bday Sat so I'm being pretty diligent right to get this pool ready! Lots to learn and I'm excited. I have about 7 TFP tabs open on my laptop. One of them I'm excited to go through, "TFP vs pool stores and the rest of the world." cool stuff

- - - Updated - - -

btw, on another note, everyone is also so quick at replying. It's incredible, actually! I have looked under settings and I have subscribed to this thread but I don't get emails or anything. Is there a way I can be notified when someone responds to a particular thread? thx!
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
At the top, under thread tools:

r29zwXp.jpg


Then:

S8M7MjV.jpg


Hope that helps!
 
Hi! I just caught up with your thread! Don't you just love how these folks just break down all this information so it's pretty straight forward! I always learn so much from them! Matt truly has a teaching gift.

You are definately in the right place getting all the right answers from the best possible people! I was so grateful to have found TFP right after we signed our contract. I couldn't imagine trying to figure out all this stuff on my own and wading through all the scientific mumbo-jumbo, trying to decipher what true from what's wives' tales, myths, and just bad science. Pretty sure I would have been a confused mess!! Since finding TFP, this is THE ONLY source I turn to for ANY pool related questions. Anytime I get advice from the experts, I put it in practice exactly as specified and it's always exactly spot on.
Like you, my pool is a one woman show. Hubby has one job-check the skimmers daily. Does he do it? Eh...A couple times per week. Stresses me out when its fall and we have a ton of leaves clogging the skimmers. But, I can't fix it. So I keep an eye on everything and do the chemistry and the cleaning and everything else. I also find it frustrating that I can't take the equipment apart myself, like you. I don't think I would attempt a pipe wrench on my salt cell. I'd be afraid I would break it. But it gives me peace of mind knowing that these smart men and women have my back when it comes to taking care of my pool.
Just do exactly as they tell you, step by step, one thing at a time (algae elimination first, water balance second), and please don't stress yourself out unnecessarily with the other resources/info on the web. Life is too short and full of other unavoidable stress, no reason to add to it!

I'm cheering for you!

Blessings,
Denise
 
Hi! I just caught up with your thread! Don't you just love how these folks just break down all this information so it's pretty straight forward! I always learn so much from them! Matt truly has a teaching gift.

You are definately in the right place getting all the right answers from the best possible people! I was so grateful to have found TFP right after we signed our contract. I couldn't imagine trying to figure out all this stuff on my own and wading through all the scientific mumbo-jumbo, trying to decipher what true from what's wives' tales, myths, and just bad science. Pretty sure I would have been a confused mess!! Since finding TFP, this is THE ONLY source I turn to for ANY pool related questions. Anytime I get advice from the experts, I put it in practice exactly as specified and it's always exactly spot on.
Like you, my pool is a one woman show. Hubby has one job-check the skimmers daily. Does he do it? Eh...A couple times per week. Stresses me out when its fall and we have a ton of leaves clogging the skimmers. But, I can't fix it. So I keep an eye on everything and do the chemistry and the cleaning and everything else. I also find it frustrating that I can't take the equipment apart myself, like you. I don't think I would attempt a pipe wrench on my salt cell. I'd be afraid I would break it. But it gives me peace of mind knowing that these smart men and women have my back when it comes to taking care of my pool.
Just do exactly as they tell you, step by step, one thing at a time (algae elimination first, water balance second), and please don't stress yourself out unnecessarily with the other resources/info on the web. Life is too short and full of other unavoidable stress, no reason to add to it!

I'm cheering for you!

Blessings,
Denise
thanks for your msg and cheers don't hurt either. :) I mustn't be very clear in my posts cuz I only do research on TFPs. Maybe cuz i mentioned i spoke to pool guy? i take their info with a grain of salt but i'm still interested so that may get my head messed up a bit. or is that 10% of doubt glaring?! I sure hope everyone here knows how grateful I am and that I'm trying to follow the steps 100%. I know anything otherwise would be very frustrating for people.

I'll reply after this about how things are going today which i will comment on my idea to possibly pull the DE filter apart on my own. I've had to just start taking over the whole pool so who knows, maybe i'll start working the biceps and be able to crank out that salt cell, too. ha ha.

I backwashed the pool with my kids for the first time a couple days ago. I knew I'd have to wait a while for husband so I was thinking how I could do it by myself and not totally ruin our brick patio and realized my 12 and 10 yr old who were home would prob get a kick out of holding the "firehose." it was a blast! Had to move my car into the garage that i was already trying to air out from water spilled from our bluesgrass festival we went to and now "firehose water" going everywhere...

There seem to be thousands here to r believers. I'm hoping for success soon! so far things not going as well as i thought. thx again. :)
 
CYA= first measurement about 62
2d measurement about 63
3rd time I poured the mixture back into the bottle= 58
4th time-poured mixture back into the bottle= 60.
so do i round up to 70 or stick with 60?

I think the reason i feel i have a hard time with this is the pool store was confident i have 80 and i didn't want to go to high by any means so i'm being conservative. realistically, though, to be pretty sure if i told someone who hadn't looked at the dot first to allow for brain tricks, they'd probably say closer to 63/65= round up to 70?

I guess I'll have to cancel my son's pool part of his birthday party tomorrow. bummer. My pool is worse off than I thought. I don't get it. How did I go from just 2 FCs overnight chlorine loss to a minimum of 2-4. Maybe my measurements?

last night i measured 4 xs in hopes i could still have bday party tomorrow. i know i measured late and i didn't figure it was looking good as i watched how much MA i was adding in the day but what do i know-i only typically use salt cell so maybe it just seems like a lot. #s:

10pm
FC=31
29.5/30
31.5
295. i'm going with 29.5 cuz it was duplicated and i was being talked to during the other measurements. i tried to get water level really perfect on this one. i read (HERE-TFP-when i say "i read" it always means here on TFP) that borax can make the water line more flat so that'd maybe help with measuring a bit when we get there.

This morn at 6:30am:
FC=27.5. sounds like i'm close until I realize I never unplugged the salt cell. ugggh. I have decided to leave cell running in the day to help out keeping chlorine closer to 28. at times i can tell it's working cuz salt #s would increase, at times up to 30 without adding chlorine at that time. I also run salt cell cuz i figure there'd be algae in there, too.

I've added chlorine about 4 xs/day, run bubbler at least an hour a day. brush twice/day. run pool maybe 20 hrs/day. backwashed two days ago. it needed it.

I've been waiting for my husband to help me break apart the DE filter. It's not that he's better than me at this stuff or that he's a man. It's the fact of having two people watching in case one misses something. i'll take pics and I have the info from here to make sure it's done right. I'm wondering if I wait for him another week (news to him BTW-he might say he can't do it next week) will it cause more probs or am i on the right track?

hoping I can wait to break apart filter until next week but I'm open to doing it myself Sun or Mon if needed.

am i on track? anything else? thx!

- - - Updated - - -

btw, thinking back, maybe what i saw on my pop up heads was algae this summer. there's a bit of a breeze today so it's hard to take a good look but i've obviously till got algae the way my #s r. husband thinks i'm nuts and following a cult. nothing new. haha

and tomorrow morning i'm off to buy yet another tree/plant to put near pool. i can't help it. my second passion. it's just a banana tree. i figure if there's enough FC doesn't matter how many trees i have in my yard. i don't purposely put any shedding tree near the pool.
 
perfect. will do. and btw, my pool is overflowing a bit with bubbler on. it didn't rain here that i know of but water level is almost to the top. my leveler on automatic filler must be broken. not sure if an extra couple inches of water in pool messed up my over night loss #s. off to measure

When done with the SLAM, i would highly recommend a re-test of your salt using the Taylor K-1766 kit. This happened to me (auto-fill being stuck) and i was pouring hundreds of gallons of water down the drain. Before i detected the problem, my salt content lowered more than 1,500...which reduced my SWG's effectiveness.
 
oh, and i had PB out and they replaced my leveler. a light also went out during the SLAM and they're coming tues. will help me to see pool when brushing at night

- - - Updated - - -

When done with the SLAM, i would highly recommend a re-test of your salt using the Taylor K-1766 kit. This happened to me (auto-fill being stuck) and i was pouring hundreds of gallons of water down the drain. Before i detected the problem, my salt content lowered more than 1,500...which reduced my SWG's effectiveness.
thx CavVet. i have that kit and tested it a mth ago or so. i've been dealing with the salt cell issue for a few mths at the least so i already ruled that out but we'll see. I wonder if i'd get different results after the SLAM
 
If you don't mind, would you be willing to post some pictures of your pool to show the progress of the SLAM? i like following these threads to see the progress and success stories!
when taking the pictures, i recommend taking them from the same vantage point....and it helps to take them of the steps or ladder, as you will begin to see more and more of either as the water clears.
 
Can you post some test results please? If the water is clear enough to see the bottom everywhere, the ph is 7.2-7.8 or was there before FC went over 10, and FC is between target and shock per cya, then I think the pool party is fine unless anyone has a compromised immune system or there is some other reason to cancel it I'm missing...
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.