Questions about pool closing

Jwa19

Member
Aug 14, 2018
8
Manalapan /nj
Hi Everyone,
I will be closing for the first time and have a few questions. I will be using a cyclone attached to a converted pump lid cover that I made. Can all of the lines be blown out from the equipment pad by using the valves, including the main drain and infloor cleaning system or is it better to blow out from the skimmers also. This is a vinyl liner pool and I have a mesh safety cover so the pool company that has done my closings in the past had the water level 3/4's of the way up to the skimmers. I am wondering if it is better to lower the water level below the skimmers and blow out and then raise the water level back up after blowing out and plugging the lines. I'm not sure how to keep water out while attaching gizmos to the skimmer with water level as high as the skimmer wouldn't water enter the skimmer that way or is not enough to worry about a small amount getting back into the skimmers. For the paramount infloor cleaning systems, paramount says to remove the modules and blow out each port and then plug each port to achieve an air lock, the pool company would just blow out each port and then add pool anti-freeze to each port and not plug them not sure if that is the way to go. As far as using the cyclone I've heard that it is okay to blow air through a cartridge filter that it will not do any harm. Any advice from someone with experience with infloor cleaning system and cartridge filter would be appreciated. I am attaching pics of the valves setup.IMG_5347.JPGIMG_5348.JPG
 

Jwa19

Member
Aug 14, 2018
8
Manalapan /nj
Why are you wanting to raise the water level back up after draining below the skimmers?
With a vinyl liner you don't want to drain the water level as a vinyl liner can shift and sag if water level is not high. Just seems like it would be easier to blow out and plug the skimmers if the water level is lower. I haven't done this before so looking for advice. Some on this forum have had issues with liner sagging and have advised against lowering the water level.
 

Newdude

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2019
757
NY
With a mesh cover you will be full again in a matter of weeks starting with the water just below the skimmer. Then you'll need to drain a few times throughout the winter. If you drain some to start you are buying yourself extra time. Its hard to get right. If you drain too much you are risking the liner. If you dont drain enough (especially once its frozen and can't drain any until it thaws) you'll be risking your coping and possibly some patio depending on how it overflows.

I drain around 18 inches of water at closing, and once again mid winter. I drain more than is recommended, because the first year i didnt know better and left the pool alone all winter. The way the water leaked once full, undermined the patio and caused several cave ins and lowered a whole side by 3 inches. My patio is worth 3 times what the liner replacement would be. Luckily there has been no liner damage to date.
 
Last edited:

Yosh

Gold Supporter
May 30, 2018
83
NJ
Hi Jwa19 I’m from Howell. When Seasonal World closed my pool last year, they didn’t lower any water level. This is my first time closing and I’m debating if I should lower it at all my self also. I just bought a cyclone blower and trying to figure out how this process works. But believe with the force this blower pushes out it would clear lines as I plug them and use gizmo in skimmer. I don’t have a salt system or in-floor cleaner system, sorry can’t help. But following your thread to maybe help me soon with my closing.
Forgot to mention that I drained couple times last year with a sump pump below first step during winter.
 

Newdude

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2019
757
NY
Hi Jwa19 I’m from Howell. When Seasonal World closed my pool last year, they didn’t lower any water level. This is my first time closing and I’m debating if I should lower it at all my self also. I just bought a cyclone blower and trying to figure out how this process works. But believe with the force this blower pushes out it would clear lines as I plug them and use gizmo in skimmer. I don’t have a salt system or in-floor cleaner system, sorry can’t help. But following your thread to maybe help me soon with my closing.
Forgot to mention that I drained couple times last year with a sump pump below first step during winter.
Don’t forget antifreeze for the pipes. So worth a few bucks for piece of mind in case the blower gets out most of the water but not all.
 

Jwa19

Member
Aug 14, 2018
8
Manalapan /nj
Hi Jwa19 I’m from Howell. When Seasonal World closed my pool last year, they didn’t lower any water level. This is my first time closing and I’m debating if I should lower it at all my self also. I just bought a cyclone blower and trying to figure out how this process works. But believe with the force this blower pushes out it would clear lines as I plug them and use gizmo in skimmer. I don’t have a salt system or in-floor cleaner system, sorry can’t help. But following your thread to maybe help me soon with my closing.
Forgot to mention that I drained couple times last year with a sump pump below first step during winter.
I am leaving the water level 3/4 of the way up the skimmer as that is what Seasonal World has done in closing my pool the last two years. I think that is best with a vinyl liner I don't want the liner to shift or sag.I didn't know that they make a gizmo with an opening at the top so you can leave the water level up to the skimmer and blow out the remaining water in the skimmer thru the top of the gizmo then cap it. I just ordered those gizmos. I am using a cyclone and attaching it to a modified pump lid that I made I am sure that the cyclone will get all the water out and that is what the guys who closed it used. I am adding anti-freeze to the lines just in case. I have a mesh safety cover and there is an overflow pipe in the skimmer so I am not worried about the pool overflowing as any excess water will come out the overflow. The past two winters I did not have any water coming up through the cover and the water level was 3/4 of the way up the skimmer when it was closed. I will update when I actually close the pool.
 

Yosh

Gold Supporter
May 30, 2018
83
NJ
I am leaving the water level 3/4 of the way up the skimmer as that is what Seasonal World has done in closing my pool the last two years. I think that is best with a vinyl liner I don't want the liner to shift or sag.I didn't know that they make a gizmo with an opening at the top so you can leave the water level up to the skimmer and blow out the remaining water in the skimmer thru the top of the gizmo then cap it. I just ordered those gizmos. I am using a cyclone and attaching it to a modified pump lid that I made I am sure that the cyclone will get all the water out and that is what the guys who closed it used. I am adding anti-freeze to the lines just in case. I have a mesh safety cover and there is an overflow pipe in the skimmer so I am not worried about the pool overflowing as any excess water will come out the overflow. The past two winters I did not have any water coming up through the cover and the water level was 3/4 of the way up the skimmer when it was closed. I will update when I actually close the pool.
I may have the same pump as you. Do you mind showing me your modified pump cover to take on the blower?
 

Catanzaro

Platinum Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 30, 2014
3,327
Monmouth County, New Jersey
Jwa19:

You can clear all the lines from the equipment pad. Take a look at my thread as it is very detailed. Also, there are other threads that will show you the whole paramount system, including the special blow thru plugs you can purchase directly from the manufacturer. They are a little expensive from what I have seen, but a lot less expensive than hiring someone to close your pool, and you will still need the plugs. You could quickly plug them ports, but I believe they are not 100% round. My friend had one and cut it out during liner replacement, etc. Good Luck and keep us posted.


Paramount System - Plugs, etc. Safety cover and water levels
 

Jwa19

Member
Aug 14, 2018
8
Manalapan /nj
I may have the same pump as you. Do you mind showing me your modified pump cover to take on the blower?
I have the CV460 not sure if that is same cover on yours. Here is the picture. Just attach to cyclone and blow
everything out from the equipment pad. I used a Hayward SP1023 1 1/2 inch fitting cut the lid with a 2 1/2 inch
hole saw and just screwed it onto the lid with the rubber gaskets included no need to use any silicone just tighten the nut it worked great.
IMG_6917.JPG
 

Jwa19

Member
Aug 14, 2018
8
Manalapan /nj
Jwa19:

You can clear all the lines from the equipment pad. Take a look at my thread as it is very detailed. Also, there are other threads that will show you the whole paramount system, including the special blow thru plugs you can purchase directly from the manufacturer. They are a little expensive from what I have seen, but a lot less expensive than hiring someone to close your pool, and you will still need the plugs. You could quickly plug them ports, but I believe they are not 100% round. My friend had one and cut it out during liner replacement, etc. Good Luck and keep us posted.


Paramount System - Plugs, etc.Safety cover and water levels
Thanks that was a great thread, helped me a lot and I made the modified lid with the info posted. Thanks again.
 

Yosh

Gold Supporter
May 30, 2018
83
NJ
I have the CV460 not sure if that is same cover on yours. Here is the picture. Just attach to cyclone and blow
everything out from the equipment pad. I used a Hayward SP1023 1 1/2 inch fitting cut the lid with a 2 1/2 inch
hole saw and just screwed it onto the lid with the rubber gaskets included no need to use any silicone just tighten the nut it worked great.
View attachment 118010
Perfect! Thanks for that. I have the same pump. I’m going to have to do this before I close for the first time my self. You use the blower and blow past the cartridge filters also? No need to remove right then plug returns?
 

Jwa19

Member
Aug 14, 2018
8
Manalapan /nj
Perfect! Thanks for that. I have the same pump. I’m going to have to do this before I close for the first time my self. You use the blower and blow past the cartridge filters also? No need to remove right then plug returns?
Yes you don't have to remove the filter cartridges then just close of your valves after skimmers are blown out.
 

Catanzaro

Platinum Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 30, 2014
3,327
Monmouth County, New Jersey
Sorry for the late response. Assuming everyone read the thread, which includes the cover, attachments, etc. You can even use a 1.5" flexible hose and clear air from the ports, but the cover makes life easy, very easy.
 

Yosh

Gold Supporter
May 30, 2018
83
NJ
Definitely going this route. I have to look at my valves to make sure one blow out skimmer and air lock main drain that I can continue working on the 4 returns I have. Maybe I have to do returns first then skimmer then main drains last.
 

Jwa19

Member
Aug 14, 2018
8
Manalapan /nj
I am leaving the water level 3/4 of the way up the skimmer as that is what Seasonal World has done in closing my pool the last two years. I think that is best with a vinyl liner I don't want the liner to shift or sag.I didn't know that they make a gizmo with an opening at the top so you can leave the water level up to the skimmer and blow out the remaining water in the skimmer thru the top of the gizmo then cap it. I just ordered those gizmos. I am using a cyclone and attaching it to a modified pump lid that I made I am sure that the cyclone will get all the water out and that is what the guys who closed it used. I am adding anti-freeze to the lines just in case. I have a mesh safety cover and there is an overflow pipe in the skimmer so I am not worried about the pool overflowing as any excess water will come out the overflow. The past two winters I did not have any water coming up through the cover and the water level was 3/4 of the way up the skimmer when it was closed. I will update when I actually close the pool.
Closed the pool with the cyclone using the modified pump lid cover and it worked great getting water out of the skimmers, returns and infloor cleaning system.

I have a question if anyone could help I have a paramount MDX debris removal canister that is connected to the main drain. I was able to blow the water out from the pump to the canister and plug with a gizmo. The canister has a port on the left which is connected to the main drain and it gets plugged with rubber plug. I tried to blow that out with the cyclone and could not get any air coming out of the bottom drain. As soon as the plug is removed water flows into the canister. It is about a foot below the concrete deck. I am worried if I leave water in that line could it possibly freeze. Paramount states to blow this out and achieve air lock not sure why I can't get air to rise out of the bottom using the cyclone. The canister has 5 holes, the bottom has two holes one goes to the pump the other is closed. There is a equalizer/ balancer that goes through the pool and into the canister that lets water into the canister that is closed with a screw in plug on the inside wall of the pool, the port on the right is closed off and the one on the left goes to the floor drain and lets water in. I am not sure if this has to be blown out and if so why I can't do it with the cyclone. The opening is 2 inches and I used a rubber gasket around the cyclone hose which is 1 1/2 inches to make a tight seal and held it in place for a few minutes with no luck.I realize this is not a common system hoping someone on here has knowledge of this type of setup. Thanks. IMG_6921.JPG


I'll attach a photo of canister.
 

Catanzaro

Platinum Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 30, 2014
3,327
Monmouth County, New Jersey
The port on the canister - Are you sure it is connected to the main drain? Is the main drain tied into the skimmer? If you cleared the main drain from the modified cover, then it could be from somewhere else? Or is could be that the air is locked, not allowing this to happen. Only way to tell is to break the air lock (nice and slow) not to get a burst of air back in. Then try closing the main drain and repeat the process and see what happens. If you break the "air lock" and this is clearly tied to the main drain, after closing the valve, air can only travel one way and that is to the main drain. The Cyclone has enough volume for this task. If not, please call the pool company to determine how they plumb this in, and maybe upload a drawing/diagram of the sequence, etc.