Pump / Motor Replacement - Currently only 120V available

swargolet

Member
May 28, 2019
20
WI
I'd like to replace my pump or motor to either a variable speed pump or a 2-speed pump to reduce my electrical costs and get a quieter pump. Biggest issue is that I only have 120V available by my pool. There is a 220V line (disconnected wire) about 20 ft away left over from a hot tub that was removed, but the line would have to be extended and from reading around it seems like that may cost quite a bit and be a huge headache due to all the newer codes around pool wiring. (maybe I'm incorrect here?) To make the decision even more difficult, I'd like to install a SWG at some point in the near future which from my understanding, can benefit a lot from a variable speed pump that works together with the SWG.

So I believe the main options are:
1. Replace the motor with a 120V 2-speed (Doesn't seem like many exist and would have to figure out ones that work with my pump)
2. Extend 220V line and buy a new 2-speed pump. (Worried about cost of extending and at that point does 2-speed even make sense)
3. Extend 220V line and buy variable speed pump (Worried about overall cost of extending and price of a new pump)

Hoping someone has some insight here on both the electrical situation and the pump / motor decision.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
9,708
Northern NJ
Pentair has a single speed Whisperflo pump that is 120/240V. Best you can do if you don’t want to wire 220V.
 
Last edited:

swargolet

Member
May 28, 2019
20
WI
Interesting. And they have a variable speed 120V pump called Superflo which is the exact same price as the Whisperflo. I guess the concern with both of those is how they would work with a SWG as the lower speed would most likely not provide enough flow for the SWG. Seems like everyone is suggesting going with the Intelliflo as it has a lot more control capabilities, but it requires 220V.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
9,708
Northern NJ
I think the Intelliflo is overkill of an AGP. The Superflo has four speed settings. Should be no problem setting a speed that is adequate for the SWG flow switch.

Your 120V line on a dedicated 20A GFCI CB to hardwire to the Superflo?
 

rowiac

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2018
73
Tehama County, CA
Actually the Superflo VS has three speed settings plus a quick clean setting, all of which can be programmed by the user in 10 rpm increments at speeds ranging from 300 to 3450 rpm, so it is quite flexible. It can be powered by either 110 or 220VAC. The only difference between the two voltages is that the maximum flow rate is slightly higher with 220VAC.

There are also SWCGs available that can run on either 110 or 220 as well, such as CircuPool models. So I don't think you will need to convert to 220VAC.
 
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swargolet

Member
May 28, 2019
20
WI
I'll have to double check the breaker for my pool to see if it is a 15A or 20A.
I've looked around but couldn't find anything (conclusive) regarding using the Superflo with a SWG. As the pump has the scheduling capabilities built in but isn't a full automation pump, I don't know how I'd ensure the SWG is off when the pump isn't running. Pentair does offer an 'External Control Wiring Kit' which can be used to select one of the 4 speed, but I'm unsure how I'd use this to control the SWG. Maybe I'd have to DIY some sort of controller out of a rasPi or Arduino which would control the SWG and the pump.

Either way, looks like a Pentair Superflo VS pump is the way to go and then once I figure out the control aspect, I'll look into buying a SWG.
 

swargolet

Member
May 28, 2019
20
WI
Typical way is using an Intermatic timer to control SWG power.
I did see that mentioned in a thread somewhere where a timer was used and just manually synced with the pump schedule. Only concern is if one or the other lost power, then they'd get out of sync. I guess that's where the flow switch comes into play as the emergency shutoff? Maybe I'll just go that route to start and then if I get ambitious, look into going a diy controller route and tie it into the rest of the home automation controls.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
9,708
Northern NJ
Just check your timer synch as part of your chemical check routine.

Only time they should get out of synch is if you use a mechanical timer and have an extended power outage. With 120V you can use an Intermatic digital timer that has a battery backup and will not lose times in a power outage.
 

CJadamec

TFP Expert
Apr 29, 2016
2,390
Quaker Hill, CT
A superflo VS pump would be a good fit for what you are trying to do.

If and when you get a SWG simply run the SWG off an external timer and program the pump to start and stop around the time you need the SWG on. In the odd chance the timers get out of sync the flow switch on the SWG will act as backup protection like it is meant to.

If you use a digital timer they should rarely ever get out of sync, the superflo pump will retain it's time clock for over 24hrs without power. The programed speeds are retained permanently with or with out power.
 

laprjns

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 14, 2012
363
Ellington, CT
I have a PureLine 1.65hp VS. It does not have an aux relay to power my SWG. Instead of a timer, I use a a current sensing relay to control the power to my SWG. Cost is comparable to a timer. I don't use a timer on my pump either. It is powered continuously and runs on a 24 hour cycle with the pump running for 12 hours at various speed. The current sense is set to trip at current level that only powers the SWG when the pump is running at speeds of 600 RPM or higher.
 

swargolet

Member
May 28, 2019
20
WI
That is a clever solution @laprjns, definitely looks like one of the simpler yet safest approaches and probably the one I'll start out with.

I'm most likely going to create my own controller using an Arduino to just give more options down the road. Specifically, I'd like to get more fined tuned control of the whole system depending on other factors such as readings from sensors or external data (weather / our schedule).
 

kchinger

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2017
186
Southeast PA
The only downside of the CT solution (although better than an aux relay solution in my opinion, due to configuration of current related to RPM being changeable) is if the SWG is oversized for the pool, you may not be able to run the pump as long at the speeds you want, without making too much chlorine (if the generator only goes to 5% for example, and 5% at 8 hours is enough chlorine, you can't run the pump at a speed that will trigger the SWG for longer than 8 hours or you'll make too much chlorine). This is a problem for me in certain times of year, so I'll run my SWG off my timer once I get my VS installed.
 

swargolet

Member
May 28, 2019
20
WI
I believe that's why @laprjns picked a sensor which has an adjustable current trigger. He can run the pump at a low speed for majority of the day for circulating the pool but it is low enough where it wont trip his current sensing relay. Then switch to a slightly higher speed which will draw more current and trip the relay to turn on the SWG. The only drawback I see to this approach is if you want the pump on high for any other reason but don't want chlorine generating such as running a heater, handling a lot of pool use, circulating after adding additional chemicals, cleaning, etc.. The SWG would be tripped on and you may not want it on.

There just doesn't seem to be a simple yet solid solution without using a full automation system where everything is the same brand. So it comes down to pros and cons of each solution and just going with one.
 

CJadamec

TFP Expert
Apr 29, 2016
2,390
Quaker Hill, CT
Using a timer is as solid of a solution as most basic automation. Most automation systems just simplify things by using the same timer for a bunch of different relays/outputs.

Using a current relays and flow switches in conjunction with a timer give you a redundant fail safe to prevent damage.
 

guinness

Well-known member
May 3, 2019
88
California
The Intermatic PE653RC is a cheaper automation controller w/ 5 relays that supports both dual speed/variable speed pumps and AutoPilot SCG via RS485. It the only controller I've seen that supports other manufacturer VS pumps which is a rarity. I can't say for sure if it'll support your application, but the Intermatic technical support line was very helpful when I was looking into automation - the technicians have actual systems in front of them to troubleshoot issues. There's also the CheckFrank website configurator that you can look at.
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
550
Marrietta Ga
I have a PureLine 1.65hp VS. It does not have an aux relay to power my SWG. Instead of a timer, I use a a current sensing relay to control the power to my SWG. Cost is comparable to a timer. I don't use a timer on my pump either. It is powered continuously and runs on a 24 hour cycle with the pump running for 12 hours at various speed. The current sense is set to trip at current level that only powers the SWG when the pump is running at speeds of 600 RPM or higher.
I am looking to do the same thing with the same pump..Is it still working great? I run my pump around 2300 rpm 24x7 but want something to kill power to the SWG if I turn off the pump on the controller :)
 

laprjns

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 14, 2012
363
Ellington, CT
Is it still working great?
Well yes, but i have only had it working for two weeks! I ran one of the 220v lines through the transformer and am switching 120v to my SWCG. Motor electronic stays power 24/7 but with the pump start, the 120v power is switch to SWCG. I really haven't played with the adjustable trip point yet since with my initial setup keeps power switched to the SWCG at 600 rpm. If i ever come across a recurring need to shut of the power to the SWCG while still running the pump at high speed) I would add a Wifi enable 120v switch upstream of the current sensing relay output. Right now i just shut off the 120v breaker.
 
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laprjns

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 14, 2012
363
Ellington, CT
There are a few things that I suggest you take a look at with regards to the ACS 150
  1. Output current limit is 0.2 amps at 120v and 0.15amps at 240v. Will that be enough to power your SWCG? My Pureline CrystalPure requires 2 amps at 120 and 1 amp at 220.
  2. The trip point adjustment is between 0 and 150 amps. The PureLine 1.65 hp Vs maximum current draw is 10 amps so you will only be using the lower 7% of the trip point adjustment. With 4 turns on the adjustment pot, you would only have the first quarter turn to make any adjustments to the trip point. You could wrap the wire through the transformer multiple times to reduce the trip point range but it will need at least 5 wraps to bring it down to a reasonable (0 to 30 amp) range in my opinion The device I using, CR4395-EH-120-110-X-CD-ELR-I has a trip point adjustment between 0 to 10 amps. I am using 3 wraps to bring it down to 0 to 0.33 amp range.
  3. The ACS150 output is a solid state relay which is my opinion is a unnecessary complication for this application. The one I am using has a electromechanical relay. Solid state is more applicable to high speed and frequent switching applications, which our application is neither being switched a most a few times a day. Solid state relays a much more prone to current surges and voltage devices.