Proud new owner of an above-ground SWAMP

[adoptolderkids]

Makes sense to me. Luckily, I'm the one home all day and the majority of the time it has been set to filter.

Still, the backwash issue remains. Any ideas of why the system is dumping pool water instead of the dirty water inside the tank? I think this issue has nothing to do with the vacuuming I did - my husband and I both agree that we've never seen dirty water come out of that hose. Could the sand possibly be so calcified on the bottom that the water just isn't getting out? The sand on the top that I reached down in and grabbed seemed to be free-flowing and ok.

 

[JesseWV]

We did discover - just now - that the landlord told my husband to set the handle to "recirculate" to clean the water. Is that correct? I've been setting it to "Filter" which makes sense to me! Just now the recirculate was giving us an 18 psi rating, but when I told my husband to switch it to filter, it popped back up to 21.

Well it sounds like at least the valve is properly functioning. I can't say the same for your landlord.

If the pool was using recirculate the majority of the time in the past that could explain all the slimy balls trapped in your filter. Like others have said, without the valve set to filter the sand filter is bypassed. The water that was in the filter would just be stagnant and could have grown slime mold.

 

[adoptolderkids]

Okay, that sounds logical. What should we do about that? Empty out all the sand and replace it? Is there another way to drain the water out of the tank other than scooping? Or should we just wait and see if there's another idea here? I feel like I'm losing time here. I really want to get this pool open! The longer this takes, I'm going to have to go and buy more bleach. I've already spent almost $40 in the last two days on bleach alone. I can't afford to be throwing money away - I don't mind spending it if it gets me someplace, but if the filter isn't filtering then things are not going to improve!

I'm beginning to think that this frustration isn't worth it and I should just call a pool guy to fix everything. Trying to stay optimistic, but well, this stinks.

 

[adoptolderkids]

Well it sounds like at least the valve is properly functioning. I can't say the same for your landlord.

Oh, this made me laugh and laugh!

 

[JesseWV]

Okay, that sounds logical. What should we do about that? Empty out all the sand and replace it? Is there another way to drain the water out of the tank other than scooping? Or should we just wait and see if there's another idea here?

I don't know if anyone has a better idea so I would wait awhile before doing this. If it were me I would use a shop vac to suck out the water down to about 2-3 inches from the sand level so you can see the sand. That way you can make sure you've got all the debris out. This would be a good time to make sure the proper amount of sand is in the filter. While you're in there check all port openings to make sure there are no clogs or damage.

I feel like I'm losing time here. I really want to get this pool open! The longer this takes, I'm going to have to go and buy more bleach. I've already spent almost $40 in the last two days on bleach alone. I can't afford to be throwing money away - I don't mind spending it if it gets me someplace, but if the filter isn't filtering then things are not going to improve!

I'm beginning to think that this frustration isn't worth it and I should just call a pool guy to fix everything. Trying to stay optimistic, but well, this stinks.

The money you've spent on bleach is not wasted. You are making progress. Don't give up! Every bit of chlorine you put in the pool is being put to use. Yes, it would be better if you could get rid of all the organic material that is easily removable with a rake or vacuum. That way you can target the the organics that are actually clouding your water.

I still think you should attempt vacuuming to waste. Remember, once you get your hose filled with water, put the valve on waste and start the pump. After a good amount of water is coming out of the backwash hose, carefully attach the suction plate to the skimmer never allowing it to come out of the water. If there is at least half the volume of water still coming out of the backwash hose and the connection is good (you shouldn't be able to easily remove the suction plate with the pump running) you are then ready to vacuum!

 

[adoptolderkids]

The suction plate on the vacuum is too big to fit through the weir, so my husband took it off, fed the hose (underwater) through the weir and then reattached it. The vacuum worked great!

Mostly, it kicked up huge clouds of black particles - most so tiny that our net couldn't catch them. I'm assuming that only the filter itself is going to be able to get rid of these. As you can see, the water turned very dark. It went from grey-blue to this black very quickly.

Anyway, after a short time, the top of the water seemed as if it had an oil slick on top of it. Not a thick one, just a kind of slippery look.

None of this was reflected in the waste water, it looked like normal pool water to us, but I ran and got a container and filled it up with the waste water hose. This is the result - nothing like what the black-water pool now looks like:

After a while, we noticed that the pump had gone dry, so we shut everything down and disconnected the vacuum. We did manage to cover the entire pool, taking turns. This is what the skimmer basket looked like:

So we did have some leaves on the bottom, but not too many. After opening up the pump case, we found nothing in the pump basket.

The spyglass had this sludgy looking stuff in it, so we ran a cycle of backwashing. I decided to catch another container full of the water. As you can see, it looks like the regular pool water. This is actually supposed to be the backwashed "dirty" water from inside the tank.

The spyglass came clear after backwashing and a rinse cycle.

I just sent my husband back outside, as I was typing this, because I realized it would probably be helpful to demonstrate how much darker and nastier the water inside the tank is - so I will edit this post and add it in once he returns! We should have done it earlier! You seriously cannot see a finger length beneath the surface, it's just liquid ink.

 

[adoptolderkids]

I don't know if anyone has a better idea so I would wait awhile before doing this. If it were me I would use a shop vac to suck out the water down to about 2-3 inches from the sand level so you can see the sand. That way you can make sure you've got all the debris out. This would be a good time to make sure the proper amount of sand is in the filter. While you're in there check all port openings to make sure there are no clogs or damage.

I think I will try this tomorrow night. (I have appointments on and off all day.) Should we refill the tank to replace the dirty water that is sucked out, or will the tank do that automatically? How much is a "proper amount of sand?"

Thank you so much for your suggestion to try vacuuming again! I'm glad I did.

 

[wmshay6]

Don't give up. Yes, you've spent $40 on bleach so far. But you also mention calling a pool guy. You'll spend WAY WAY WAY more than $40 if you hire a pool guy!! And I'll bet next week's lunch money the results won't be as good.

You really need some P.O.P. - it comes in a big can with a blue label, but you can't buy it at the store. It's called Pool Owner Patience! Someone here on these forums coined the term. Realistically, you've only been at this two days. It takes most of us that really know this stuff at least that long to clear a pool in the spring.

And once you get it going you won't spend $40 a month to keep it going.

If the bottom is really still covered with leaves, you could try vacumming directly over the side of the pool with a siphon. 1) Fill Vac hose with water. 2) Submerge vac head on bottom of pool. 3) Throw the vac hose on the ground outside of the pool. This should create a siphon directly through the vac hose and bypasses your entire skimmer & filter system. That way you can get the leaves and other large organic matter directly out of the pool. It will drop you water level, but then you can top off and filter normally.

Don't fret- you WILL get there!!!

I couldn't see the bottom of my pool this spring. Took several vac's to waste to get rid of the big stuff, lots of bleach, and 3 days of patience, but now I can read the date on a nickel on the bottom of the pool.

The "proper amount of sand" should be about 2/3 full on the tank. You don't want the top of the sand higher than the shoulder on the top of the tank- hence the tank only about 2/3 full. While you're outside and dirty next time, disconnect the filter, take the valve off again, and jam a garden hose down into the sand and let it run. This will serve to float all of the gunk and snot balls out just let the hose run until all that stuff flows over the top and out of the filter. Move the hose end around to different areas of the sand bed and work it around. This will clean the sand good, and serve to loosen and mix things up. Reassemble and you should be good as new. A note of caution- don't try to jam the hose all the way to the bottom. In the bottom of the tank are what are called "laterals" and you could break them if you jam the hose down to the bottom. You're ok if you stay in the top 6-8" or sand. The laterals keep the sand from getting carried into your pool from the filter.

And one other thing- Can you ask the landlord what chemicals were used in the pool before? The scum and snot balls you describe sound a lot like what people get when they convert to Chlorine from Baquacil. I don't know if there would still be Baqua in the water after so long, but I guess it's possible. If the landlord mentions anything like Baquacil or Softswim, post back here and the fine folks can teach you how to deal with that too! It's easy, but requires a lot of the aforementioned P.O.P.

 

[adoptolderkids]

Thanks for your post - it's just what I needed to hear. Yes, I need a big dose of POP! I am the most impatient person on the planet - I truly am. So of course this whole thing is throwing out obstacles to slow me down! I'll just have to deal with it.

The "proper amount of sand" should be about 2/3 full on the tank.

This is how much is in there, as far as I can feel.

I love the idea about putting the water hose into the sand and letting it flow over. Will definitely do that tomorrow night. Since it is dark now, we can't do anything else at this point. We are going to have to leave the filter off tonight - we can't risk it popping the basket and spiking at 30 while we are sleeping. I don't want to wake up to a fried pump!

I don't think we have a large amount of leaves left on the bottom of the pool. The leaf net doesn't come up with anything, and vacuuming the entire pool twice got us that small bunch in the filter. I believe that all we have is a Crud-ton of particles left.

I texted the landlord about the Baqua. I'll be sure to post if he answers!

 

[Txmat]

I second using the garden hose to clean out the filter. I have had to do this and it is amazing how much gunk overflows out the top. I also had trouble vacuuming the first several times I tried it. I have never mastered it, but I have been able to get better at it. I purchased a leaf vacuum which was about $20 and using the garden hose to create a suction into a net. It adds water to the pool, but works good at getting leaves up. However, you may have already gotten most of the leaves up with the net. Brushing is good because it stirs up the gunk and lets it go through the skimmer into the filter. So your black cloud was a good thing. You may not feel like you have made much progress, but you have and you have learned more about your pool than your landlord knows. Keep up the good work.

 

[adoptolderkids]

Ha! Yeah, I guess I do know more than the landlord. He called me a few minutes ago and said he's only ever used the chlorine stuff that we can find in the shed. He advised me to call the guy at the pool store down the street and that the pool guy is god. Whatever. I told him about the filter tank being full of black water, and he told me that I just need to get some more chlorine. Oh, and that he "never messed with any of the pH stuff, it will just work out on its own." Sigh.

By the end of the call, I had repeated to him like 6 times that the water inside the tank was BLACK. What made him finally understand was when I told him that you couldn't see the sand. He said, "oh" and then he told me to go buy some new sand and just drain it out, he doesn't care.

So, I think I am going to go to avoid the pool place tomorrow and instead force the water up and out with a hose inside the tank.

My husband just went out to check everything one last time, and the gauge was reading 30 psi, yet there was still water in the pump and the skimmer basket was down where it should be. He shut it off and that's where we are with that. Clearly something needs to be done - hopefully the plan tomorrow night will help that.

I don't like the thought that the pump will be off all night, but there's not much I can do about that. I can run it some in the morning while I'm home, but I am not comfortable leaving it on with no one to watch over it at this point. Hopefully dumping the chlorine in will be enough to keep the algae dead until we can work out these filter issues.

 

[Txmat]

Holly, I am going to guess that once you flush the filter your pressure will go down. And you definitely know more than your landlord. When you get your pool sparkling you can invite him over for a swim. You will blow his mind and he will be calling you a Goddess.

 

[adoptolderkids]

heh.

Two other things I forgot to mention - the landlord said the sand had been changed "2 or 3" years ago...maybe...but it doesn't matter because if anyone says we need to change sand he wouldn't believe them.

Also, while my husband was out taking pics of the tank, two ducks splashed down in the pool. He said they swam around a bit but didn't leave until he got right over by them. I am thinking these are the two ducks that swam in our pool last summer - they arrived at the same time every evening to swim on the cover - which was full of holes and rips and had a couple of feet of water on top of it. It was good to know that they are still around - my daughter actually named them - but I am thinking they probably aren't good for the pool chemistry, and it probably isn't good for them, with all the bleach that is currently in it. Any way to uh, encourage them to find someplace else to swim?

 

[wmshay6]

My understanding is that sand lasts a long time generally. I would go the garden hose route and clean that puppy up as much as possible. Then I would go back to filtering normally to see if your pressures improve. I suspect that the backwashing is just not doing the trick (or there is a problem with the multiport valve). A good deep cleaning of the sand bed is the easiest and cheapest first step.

The sand can be replaced fairly cheaply, but no sense in doing so if it isn't needed.

As for the ducks, when's the last time you saw any in a public pool? I would think that once you get this cleaned up and your kids start making a lot of joyful pool noise on a regular basis, the ducks will move on.

And you're right, what the ducks tend to leave behind is NOT good for the pool. Fecal matter requires a LOT of chlorine !!

If you have all of the big stuff off of the bottom, you are well on your way. Once you get the filter worked out and your test kit mastered, you can have clear water in no time (well- a week or less anyway!)

When you get the filter apart, turn the big valve over and post a picture of it- If it's like mine, there should be some large holes arranged in a circle around the bottom of the filter. The water comes in through the valve and these holes distribute the water over the sand bed in a sort of "umbrella" pattern. It is pumped down through the sand, the laterals in the bottom collect the filtered water and it flows back UP through the center pipe and back to the pool. The backwash cycle works in reverse, pumping clean pool water backwards through the filter to remove the particles trapped in the sand bed. I am not sure why you still have so much black water in the tank and it doesn't seem to be coming out in the backwash- unless your valve is messed up. A picture might help to see what is going on.

 

[Txmat]

While you have the filter apart check for any obstructions (leaves, sticks, etc.) in the pipes. I suspect you have already done this. I doubt you need to go to the trouble of changing your sand. I think yours, like mine was, is just overloaded and back-washing is too inefficient. There is a possibility that you have a broken lateral in the bottom of the filter, but that can be checked if the washing doesn't work. I wouldn't do it now, because it requires the removal of most of the sand and while not difficult it is a time consuming process.

 

[adoptolderkids]

When you get the filter apart, turn the big valve over and post a picture of it-

Will do.

While you have the filter apart check for any obstructions (leaves, sticks, etc.) in the pipes. I suspect you have already done this.

Actually, no, we haven't. We just opened the top and stared in at the black water. I put my hand in a couple of times to feel around, but all I touched was sand. I wasn't sure what or where I was touching, and I'm not a fan of reaching into dark mechanical places, especially if they are nasty. Plus, I have no idea where the pipes are inside there.

I have an appointment at 10 today, but I'm thinking about seeing if my dad could handle taking the top off the tank so I can get the flushing process started. It shouldn't take more than a couple of hours, and if I can get it done now, in the morning, I can run the fixed filter all afternoon and be that much closer to having a clean pool!

Just for a record - the FC level was still showing 10 on the dipstick this morning. I do want to buy a better testing kit. I am feeling nervous now that I have read more on this site - I am not trusting the CYA number. The test strip colors for 0 and 30-50 levels are almost exactly the same and I am beginning to be paranoid that maybe I'm not reading it clearly. If my CYA number is 0, what affect is that going to have on the time process of clearing the murk? I know I shouldn't borrow problems, but I am a worrier. Ithink on Thursday I am going to grab a water sample and take it to the pool place and see if I can get a more accurate reading, at least.

Oh, and this morning there were HUNDREDS of dead mosquitoes on the surface of the pool. Blech.

 

[Txmat]

Wmshay6 gave a good description of the plumbing inside the filter. If you think of an upside down umbrella you have the general idea. There is a pipe that runs down the center into the sand toward the bottom (the pole on an umbrella.) the pipe is connected to laterals (small pipes with holes in them) (the ribs on an umbrella) which are buried in the sand. The laterals screw into the main pipe. All of these parts are made of plastic. Sometimes if the main pipe is moved too much a lateral will break which causes sand to leach into the system and out into the pool. When the sand is dirty it takes more pressure to push the water through the sand thus causing the pressure to rise. That is why we say when the pressure increases by 8-10 psi, it is time to backwash. A little dirt in the sand helps because it makes the sand less porous - on the other hand a lot of dirt cuts down on the efficiency of the filter. Tell your Dad when he is poking the hose in there to be gentle with the center pipe to avoid breaking a lateral.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Once you get the filter cleaned and go back to filtering, it wouldn't ba a bad idea to take a sample to the PS. They're not nearly as good as a good test kit of your own but they'll give you a little confirmation.

 

[adoptolderkids]

There didn't seem to be anything obstructing the flow - no big pieces of anything in the tank. Actually, the water looked much less black once we started hosing it out. In fact, I am abashed to say it looked like normal pool water. If it weren't for the photos taken yesterday, I would be hard pressed to try and make the current state of the water in the tank match up in my mind to how I have been describing it. It was cloudy this morning, yes, but it was not black. I could kinda make out the shape of the sand through it. Course, it could have been more settled today because we didn't run the filter at all last night.

Here is a pic of my dad with the hose in it:

You can see it doesn't look black or nasty coming out - looks similar to the pool water.

Here is the underside of the valve-thingy, as asked:

It also seemed to be okay. Looks normal to me, anyway.

We set it back to filter when we were through, and the gauge was right back up on 21 when we started running it.

One thing we noticed - when the power was off to everything, the gauge was still reading 12 psi. Is this normal? Also, if I press the valve handle down, like if I'm going to move it from the filter selection to something else, like backwash or rinse, the pressure gauge doesn't move at all, even though there is a big hiss, the skimmer basket pops and there's a quick gush of water coming out of the waste hose.

I have the filter running now. My youngest is out scrubbing the sides, and I told her to shut the pump off if the pressure gauge spikes 30 again, while I am inside typing this.

The pool water has gone back to being grey-blue, but the slippery oily slick on top still seems to be there.

Ideas? Thoughts?

 

[adoptolderkids]

I have got to get this cleared up before next Wednesday - we leave on vacation for a week then. My parents (who moved in with us due to health issues) are happy to check the levels and add chlorine, but they are not going to do it every half hour or hour! So that is the goal for me. Otherwise, all this work is going to be lost while we are gone for the week to Ohio. I am feeling the pressure (heh) to get this worked out.