Prep for reviving out of service pool: Currently in pad rebuild phase

Brett S

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Mar 15, 2019
634
Orlando
Yes, the issue of being electrical conduit, even though it's listed as Sched 40, is one of the main reasons I'm hoping that Jimmy will chime in. I have visions of it breaking under the stress of the cable pull.
I mean the entire purpose of electrical conduit is to pull cables through it. You’re using it exactly as it’s designed. I don’t think you have to worry about that.
 

jimmythegreek

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Conduit is strong it's the same weight rating you wont break it. I didn't read whole thread but all underground conduit uses sweep elbows only above ground piping uses pull box elbows. Is this right from the light with no above ground UL listed Jbox?

And for the record you dont use wire pulling lube in a wet niche. Everywhere else its great but the chlorine turns it to jelly amd hardens it then it's a nightmare for future. Dish soap on wet niches
 

dianedebuda

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Jan 2, 2018
259
Austin TX
Conduit is strong it's the same weight rating you wont break it. I didn't read whole thread but all underground conduit uses sweep elbows only above ground piping uses pull box elbows. Is this right from the light with no above ground UL listed Jbox?
Yes, this is directly from the light with no Jbox. So sounds like my biggest concern of it breaking during the pull should not be an issue and IS something I should do. I can try to be careful with the glue; maybe coat the old cord at the joint with something before hand? Do you think it'd be worth replacing the 45° pair on the outside of the pad with a sweep too? The earlier 45° pair would be difficult to access. I hope those are the only 2 90°s between the light and the pad.🙏

And for the record you dont use wire pulling lube in a wet niche. Everywhere else its great but the chlorine turns it to jelly amd hardens it then it's a nightmare for future. Dish soap on wet niches
Good to know; glad I was planning on soap. :)
 

mguzzy

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Jul 8, 2015
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As your are gluing, pull the old line out at the same time and use it to pull a pull string/cord for your other pull. If the old light is a mess and the cord is still good, you could use that as your pull string.
 

dianedebuda

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Jan 2, 2018
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Austin TX
Yes, I'm planning to cut off the old light & use the old cord as the puller at this point. By doing the sweep replacement with the old cord while the water is lowered, I'd have proof that all is well. (y) Really glad you caught this, mguzzy, and took the time to rattle my cage about it. :)
 

mguzzy

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Jul 8, 2015
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That's one of the things I really like about this forum.. everyone is looking out for each others backs! Thanks for the props, its always nice to do some constructive cage rattling now and again! :giggle:
 
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jimmythegreek

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Shouldnt be an issue. If it was inspected it should have more than 4 sweep 90s that's code. Glue the pole not the hole is the standard. Keep the glue off the leading edge domt need alot. Use medium grey glue meant for conduit
 

dianedebuda

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Jan 2, 2018
259
Austin TX
Shouldnt be an issue.
What shouldn't? The 45° pairs instead of sweep elbows?
If it was inspected it should have more than 4 sweep 90s that's code. Glue the pole not the hole is the standard. Keep the glue off the leading edge domt need alot. Use medium grey glue meant for conduit
Rural, not inspected - that's why I'm trying to be vigilant and make a best effort to follow code if at all possible while updating the equipment. No idea of purpose of 4+ sweeps. The 2 90s (45° pairs) that I put in 10 years ago were strictly for change of direction at the same elevation. No idea what the orig builder did back in 1978, but there was never a Jbox nor use of any conduit.

Would (red) all purpose glue work since it's a conduit to pvc joint? I usually use medium pvc glue, but have some red for the cpvc valves. All this time and I didn't realize that Jandys were CPVC and not PVC. :oops: Otherwise I'll get some gray for this one piece.

Related issue: Pool is not bonded. I'm planning to bond the equipment on the pad: IntelliCenter, pump, SWG, not blower ... and don't know about px300 pool light transformer. With the conduit to the niche only being 3/4", don't think there's a chance of putting 8 ga solid through the line now and no idea if the niche has a lug anyhow. Remember that pool is swamp yet, so can't just take a look. :giggle: From what I've read, that may not be required since light is 12V. Thoughts?

Edit: Should add that I've been looking at Water Bonder as an option.
 
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dianedebuda

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Jan 2, 2018
259
Austin TX
Still hoping Jimmy will comment about previous post, but after my reading, now think there's a typo in
If it was inspected it should have more than 4 sweep 90s that's code.
Think it should be no more than 4 sweep 90s. That I understand. (y)

----------------------

New light wasn't delivered Friday as scheduled. Maybe Tues?

----------------------

Originally planned to start lowering water level today, but just plain tired, so spent most of the time researching. So much about pulling pool light cords on TFP & the web. :) So now I know exactly what to do.

1) Lubricate the cable with soap because using wire pulling lubricant mixed with chlorine causes problems later
but also saw
Lubricate the cable with wire pulling lubricant because soap cakes up & causes problems later
or
Lubricate the cable with something like water soluable KY jelly (hey, I've got a ton of surgical lubricant here!)
or
Blow air through the conduit to clean it out
or
Blow soapy water through the conduit to clean it out
or
... :LOL:


2) Use silicon to seal the cord to the niche and j-box because it's code
or
Use potting compound to seal the cord to the niche
or
Don't seal the niche unless it's leaking 'cause it's expected to have water in the conduit
:LOL:

----------------

Have seen niche bonding wire as must be 8 ga solid and must be 8 ga stranded. Solid for equipment, but stranded makes more sense to me here, but...

----------------------

My day for conflicts I guess. :ROFLMAO:
 
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mguzzy

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Jul 8, 2015
2,026
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All of the above! AND have a helper. it really helps to have a person on each end of the conduit to Pull and Push... Push and Pull...

I think he meant "no" more than 4 sweeps. I always thought that was a rule of thumb.. didn't know it was code in some areas.
 

kellyfair

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Jun 29, 2016
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Ok, I tried to read this whole thing, even though the equipment talk made my head hurt. But I just wanted to say I am seriously impressed, OP, and please do continue to post pics of your progress. If we ever have a contest for most epic swamp, you are definitely in the running!
 

jimmythegreek

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Sorry typo....no more than 4 90s.

Yes no pulling lube. Use soap

The potting compound is to seal the 2nd ground to the light niche bar. Without seeing inside you dont know if it's there. On a wet niche you have 3 lines. One is the light cord. The 2nd is a #8 stranded insulated to the internal ground that gets potting compound to protect the terminal from rotting from chlorine. The 3rd line is outside conduit to the bonding lug #8 bare solid. These lines all meet at a UL listed pool light Jbox

In your case with 12v I would skimmer bond the pool and then tie all the pool equipment to that. If you have metal handrails they need it too but may not be possible. Still better to have something than nothing, do what you can.
 

dianedebuda

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Jan 2, 2018
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Austin TX
Without seeing inside you dont know ... In your case with 12v I would skimmer bond the pool and then tie all the pool equipment to that. If you have metal handrails they need it too but may not be possible. Still better to have something than nothing, do what you can.
I highly doubt there's any bonding wires attached to the niche 'cause I figure that bonding & j-boxes weren't part of the code when pool was built. Only skimmer bonds that I've seen are for above ground or where skimmer is accessible from outside the pool. Mine's not and it's an old style with a floating basket surround instead of a weir door. Is there something for this situation? If so, I'll hunt some more. Would the bonding wire be threaded inside the skimmer line back to the pad and then a hole made to exit the pipe so it can be connected to the other bonded equipment? If so, sounds like the pricey Water Bonder would be an easier solution if it works.

With just a light cord, do you seal the niche with silicon or leave it open?

Thanks again for your insights. (y)
 
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jimmythegreek

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You domt snake inside the pipes you go from skimmer above the waterline and wire back to the pad. Like I said something is better than nothing do what you can.
A wet niche stays open it's meant to be. They get sealed often on older pools that have metal or brass piping coming from metal niche. In your case doesnt matter. If its sealed now it probably leaked and was sealed.
 

jimmythegreek

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Never used one but in theory its using water as the conductor. I'm sure it works. Do you know if concrete deck has rebar? Do you have handrails and or ladder?
 

dianedebuda

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Never used one but in theory its using water as the conductor. I'm sure it works. Do you know if concrete deck has rebar? Do you have handrails and or ladder?
Orig deck (cooldeck surface) and add-on at end both have rebar. No handrails. Have orig SS ladder in good condition, but may replace with non-metal. Seriously considering removing diving board.
pool deck skimmer end a.jpg

Edit:
1. Forgot to ask again about the glue for the conduit sweep. You said gray, but I asked if ok to use Oatey Red All-Purpose since I bought some for the Jandys.
2. Asked if it was worthwhile replacing a pair of 45° elbows (instead of 90° elbow) with conduit sweep elbow on outside of pad. last pic in this post
 
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jimmythegreek

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All purpose is fine let it dry for 24hrs before it gets wet
Only replace if it makes your life easier pulling wire. Smaller plumbing PVC 90s are hard 90s no good for pulling wire thru.
 

dianedebuda

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Jan 2, 2018
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Austin TX
@jimmythegreek, you asked about the deck, ladder, etc. Do you have anything to add about bonding? I've found a cheaper, simple bonding gizmo, Amazon: Perma-Cast, but one of the reviews claimed it was adding copper to his water. Don't see what it's made of anywhere, so don't know. At least the pricey Water Bonder is SS so it shouldn't cause a metals problem.
 

jimmythegreek

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Sounds like you have it covered. Nond anything you can at this point without going nuts ripping up a decent deck. Lots of older pools out there with no bonding, not ideal but they exist. Most important thing is proper GFCI on everything touching water. Lights are the top of that list