Pool use vs SWG level?

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
364
Winter Garden FL
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Those setting are creating 2 ppm FC in your pool volume . Too low for your climate and time of year. Double the run hours to 12 hours and see how the FC holds.
I'll get some liquid chlorine tomorrow and I've changed the run time to 12 hours. I can't help but wonder should I have gone with a larger SWG? 85% for 12 hours seems rough on the SWG
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
44,307
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Your pool is ~18000 gallons. So the SWCG is properly sized. In reality, with your VS pump, you might try running the pump 24 hours per day and setting the IC to 40% and see how it goes.

The SWCG itself could care less if at 1% or 100%. It has a set number of generating hours. Approx 10000 hours.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
364
Winter Garden FL
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Your pool is ~18000 gallons. So the SWCG is properly sized. In reality, with your VS pump, you might try running the pump 24 hours per day and setting the IC to 40% and see how it goes.

The SWCG itself could care less if at 1% or 100%. It has a set number of generating hours. Approx 10000 hours.
Thank you for the information. Did not know it was based off generating hours and not a combination of things.

With this being the first look I'm noticing it's a trade off between running the pump longer and saving on electricity. I have slowed the pump down to the minimum I think I can and still get good water movement to clean the surface.

Currently running the pump at 2400 RPM but I might take another look at backing it off a little more.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
44,307
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
2400 rpm is really high. Mine is at 1400 rpm and many here run at 1200 rpm.

Get a baseline RPM that will close the flow switch for the SWCG. Just keep lowering your RPM by 100 until the Flow light turns red on the SWCG. Then add back 100 rpm. That is your baseline RPM. Then set the Pool mode at that rate for 24 hours. Then set up a Skim Feature that raises the RPM to what is needed to skim a couple times a day for an hour or so. See how that works.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
364
Winter Garden FL
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
2400 rpm is really high. Mine is at 1400 rpm and many here run at 1200 rpm.

Get a baseline RPM that will close the flow switch for the SWCG. Just keep lowering your RPM by 100 until the Flow light turns red on the SWCG. Then add back 100 rpm. That is your baseline RPM. Then set the Pool mode at that rate for 24 hours. Then set up a Skim Feature that raises the RPM to what is needed to skim a couple times a day for an hour or so. See how that works.
Thank you so much for the help I'll give this a shot tomorrow.
 
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Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
23,090
Bedford, TX
guy,

Man you are making this harder than it should be... The average pool use 2 to 4 ppm of FC each day.. Let's say your pool uses 3 ppm..

An IC40 in a 17K pool makes about 9.7 ppm of FC per day at 100% This is about .4 ppm per hour at 100%

At 80% you are down to .32 ppm per hour.. so at 80% you have to run the pump for 10 hours to generate just 3 ppm of FC..

I also suspect that you are trying to keep your FC between your minimum and your target.. Doing that will just drive you crazy... I try to keep my FC at my target or higher... I try to never let it get even close to the minimum.. If it goes a little high who cares... Everyone cares if it goes too low. See the saltwater section of this chart.. FC/CYA Chart

You have the gold standard of pool pumps.. It costs next to nothing to run them 24/7.. I see no advantage to only running for 6 hours. I personally like generating a little chlorine over a longer period of time.. I also like the fact that the longer you run the pump the more skimming action you get.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
364
Winter Garden FL
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I just dialed my pump back to where it tripped the flow switch on the SWG and added 100 RPM back and I'm at around 800 RPM right now. I'll keep an eye on it throughout the day and make sure it doesn't trip for some reason but from a cost perspective this is way better than 2400 RPM's and if it generates the same amount of FC as a higher pump setting (this took me a while to realize) all the better.

Now I just have to fight with this dang Intellicenter program to set up a skimmer routine. I really do not like the pentair software and need to look into the alternate app that people on here developed.

Still trying to get used to this whole pool thing and what's best so I really appreciate this forum and the people on here (first time pool owner)

@Jimrahbe I'm sorry if I'm making this more difficult than it should be. I actually wasn't in the mode of targeting an FC level I had bumped my SWG up to 85% and was trying to determine if it was maintaining the FC level or not. I think I'm just perplexed how the FC was stable at 4.5 for 4 days )(thought I was doing good) and then dropped to 0 in 3 days. During this time I was trying to get it back to the FC recommended level based on CYA but it really sounds like I'm just off in my estimation of how much FC I should be targeting to generate. This might be an odd question but do temperature swing affect FC loss? We've had a lot of swings in temperature lately down here.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
23,090
Bedford, TX
guy,

No reason to be sorry, I just felt that you were somewhat frustrated.. :mrgreen: SWCGs are supposed to make your life easier, not harder.

Generally temperature and sunlight go hand in hand.. Several days of bright sunlight will eat a lot more chlorine than cloudy days, for sure..

I find it much easier to over-produce FC and then cut back, vs. starting low and trying to increase.

Each pool is different of course, but I would want to make sure at 800 RPM that your skimmers are still working well. In my mind you want to do two things at the same time.. Generate Chlorine and to skim the pool. My pool does both well at 1200 RPM.. I suggest that you try 1000 RPM, but that is completely up to you.

I am not sure what you mean by "setting up a skimmer" routine? Basically, when you are in the Pool mode the skimmers are working. I don't think it makes sense to run the pool at a speed to make chlorine if the skimmers are not working. Not saying that it hurts to ramp the pump speed up a couple of times a day to help skimming, but the skimmers should be working at the chlorine production speed.

Keep in mind that skimming takes patience. Skimmers are slow workers, they are not supposed to have huge volumes of water passing through them at high speed. If you are used to a single speed pump, then looking at a skimmer using a VS pump is different. My skimmers have "almost" no water movement when running at 1200 RPM, yet they work great.. I can fill up a hairnet full of junk in a day or so.

Tell me what you are trying to do with your IntelliCenter and maybe I can help or at least get you pointed in the right direction.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

wireform

Silver Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 15, 2017
3,105
Spring Valley, NY
+1. Some folks obsess over saving every minute of cell life and buy/lug jugs in the meantime. It helps them sleep better and it is OK too. For the rest of us........ we make up an excuse to let the SWG do it’s thing. You bought it for a reason, so use it. :)
It's not always to save the cell but sometimes the amount of time it takes to bring it to target level is longer then you can afford not knowing of an impending algae bloom only to find out 2 weeks later something isn't right. With a high CYA the slam gets more complicated so why chance it.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
364
Winter Garden FL
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
@Jimrahbe I think I keep forgetting the skimming action is a slow process and takes a while to move stuff around the pool. I have upped the pump a little bit and we will see how the water movement is an go from there.

The intellicenter stuff is just general annoyances with the app and the unresponsiveness involved with it sometimes.
 

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iflyjetzzz

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2011
108
Las Vegas, NV
Tegguy, as others have stated, your SWG has a 10K hour life. You can run it
100% for 24 hrs = 24 hrs of use
50% for 24 hrs = 12 hrs of use
or any other combination of % and run time. It doesn't matter if you use it 100% x 6hrs or 25% x 24 hrs, they're both using up 6 hrs of your SWG's life.

But 10K hours is a lot of time. Don't worry/think about sparing your SWG's life; they're dirt cheap compared to the cost of chlorinating a pool with liquid chlorine.

My recommendation for you is rather than try to work up to a 'proper' daily SWG run time setting, you do the opposite and try to work down to a proper SWG daily run time. (be advised that summer FC demand is higher than winter FC demand, all things being equal).

Run your SWG at 100% for 24 hrs using a low setting on your pump of 25GPM which is the minimum flow rate for the IC40 according to its manual (you can likely run it at lower flow rates without a problem, but that's what the manual states). Watch for your FC levels to rise, then back off your SWG to a lower % setting with the pump still running 24 hrs. See how low you can set your SWG before FC levels stay constant. Once you figure out that sweet spot, adjust % and pump run time to numbers you're happy with. But keep in mind that time of year and amount of use are going to change the amount of chlorine demand for your pool.

I hope this helps rather than confuses. All the best.
 

mguzzy

Gold Supporter
This might be an odd question but do temperature swing affect FC loss? We've had a lot of swings in temperature lately down here.
Its the water temp.. and the angle of the sun. This is the time of the year when things are warming up and the sun is creeping higher in the sky, so the affect of UV degradation becomes more pronounced. Its easy to think you have your SWG dialed in.. and then things go south because you forgot to take into account the effect of the change of the seasons. My second year with my SWG was like that as I tried to figure out how to adjust for the changing conditions.. but its easy.. just turn the % knob up a little as your FC starts to drop due to the demand.
 
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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,033
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Its the water temp.. and the angle of the sun.

Increased FC loss is due to:
  • Not Water temp
  • Longer days of sunlight
  • Sun higher in the sky giving stronger UV rays
June 23 is the longest day of the year and then it all starts flipping the other way. And so it goes in the Northern hemisphere.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
364
Winter Garden FL
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
So I have had the pump running for the last 21 hours or so on super chlorinate and my FC is up to 4.5 currently so that is defiantly an improvement. I'm going to keep running the pump to get the FC back to the proper range.

After reading a post on here I realized I might be doing the CYA test wrong because I do all my water testing indoors it was showing me a lower CYA that when I just went outside realizing my CYA is around 90-100 now and not the 70-80 I thought.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,033
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I just went outside realizing my CYA is around 90-100 now and not the 70-80 I thought.

Then you should do:

CYA > 90 dilution Test​

For CYA > 90ppm, repeat the test adjusting the procedure as follows:
  1. Fill the mixing bottle to the lower mark with pool water.
  2. Continue filling the mixing bottle to the upper mark with tap water.
  3. Shake briefly to mix.
  4. Pour off half of the contents of the mixing bottle, so it is again filled to the lower mark.
  5. Continue the test normally from adding R-0013, but multiply the final result by two.

If you need to dilute the pool water further then apply these ratios:


Pool waterTap or distilled waterMultiply result by
112
123
145

Note that when doing a diluted test not only do you multiply the range of the test you multiply the error rate of the test, so results are a ballpark - not an absolute.

See CYA Testing for tips in how to read the test results.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
364
Winter Garden FL
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
OK I did the diluted CYA test and it was just barely above 40 towards 50. So rounding up to 50 X 2 puts the CYA at 100.

Side note now that I read the best way to do this test (Thank you @ajw22 ) I probably would get a different answer. I have been staring at the dot and not filling to the line and reading it.

Side question.... Since I backed my pump speed down I have air bubbles coming from one of my returns but I'm not seeing any air getting through the pump. Is this something to be worried about?
 

Orion7319

Well-known member
Jul 1, 2020
553
Rock Hill, South Carolina
Pool Size
19775
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
OK I did the diluted CYA test and it was just barely above 40 towards 50. So rounding up to 50 X 2 puts the CYA at 100.

Side question.... Since I backed my pump speed down I have air bubbles coming from one of my returns but I'm not seeing any air getting through the pump. Is this something to be worried about?
That’s probably bubbles from your salt system. You can sometimes see little bubbles from it at lower speeds. Turn your salt cell off for a second and see if they go away.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
364
Winter Garden FL
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
That’s probably bubbles from your salt system. You can sometimes see little bubbles from it at lower speeds. Turn your salt cell off for a second and see if they go away.
Wasn't the salt cell there was somehow an air pocket in the line. I bumped the pump speed up until the bubbling stopped and then backed it back down.
 
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Orion7319

Well-known member
Jul 1, 2020
553
Rock Hill, South Carolina
Pool Size
19775
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Wasn't the salt cell there was somehow an air pocket in the line. I bumped the pump speed up until the bubbling stopped and then backed it back down.
Only time I ever get air in my system like that is when I clean my pump basket out, or check my salt cell.
 

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