Pool Replaster....Post Freeze Damage!

[HeyEng]

I missed this thread! I just posted a similar thread a minute ago, anyone know if Home Owners Policy would cover this freeze damage?

Sorry for everyone who has to deal with damage from this event.

One of the threads said that their insurer (USAA) would not cover it for a couple reasons (accessory structure and ice, if I recall).

 

[Technobuyer]

One of the threads said that their insurer (USAA) would not cover it for a couple reasons (accessory structure and ice, if I recall).

Hi, that was me. I have USAA, and I called them about the damage. Been with them 30 years. I have an accessory structure rider on my policy for $90,000. It's mostly for another improvement on the property, but it does cover any additional structures on the property. A pool is considered a structure. What they told me was that while the policy did cover the pool, it did not cover freeze damage. The agent then read whole host of exclusions regarding pools and freeze damage.

Lightning hits the pool? Good to go. Meteor? No problem. Pool catches fire? Check.

Freeze damage? Nope.

Your policy may be different, and I hope that it is.

Got a bid today for plaster redo. $9700. Ouch. And I haven't even tried to turn anything back on yet.

 

[Newdude]

Pool catches fire? Check.

With all you guys just went through, can we stick to one sign of the apocalypse at a time, maybe wait a few months between them ? Thanks.

 

[HeyEng]

Hi, that was me. I have USAA, and I called them about the damage. Been with them 30 years. I have an accessory structure rider on my policy for $90,000. It's mostly for another improvement on the property, but it does cover any additional structures on the property. A pool is considered a structure. What they told me was that while the policy did cover the pool, it did not cover freeze damage. The agent then read whole host of exclusions regarding pools and freeze damage.

Lightning hits the pool? Good to go. Meteor? No problem. Pool catches fire? Check.

Freeze damage? Nope.

Your policy may be different, and I hope that it is.

Got a bid today for plaster redo. $9700. Ouch. And I haven't even tried to turn anything back on yet.

Ugh. I am sorry to hear this. I haven't made any claims w/ USAA and have been with them for many, many years (I did go with Amica for a couple of years to "reset" my rates) and while the rates have done nothing but go up, up, up...I don't know that the service is that fantastic anymore.

 

[Newdude]

.I don't know that the service is that fantastic anymore

Even if the policy holder was well informed at their limitations upon signing up, they would have laughed off the thought of Texas freezing at the time because it was actually more likely that the pool would catch fire. Going forward maybe not so much.

 

[HeyEng]

Even if the policy holder was well informed at their limitations upon signing up, they would have laughed off the thought of Texas freezing at the time because it was actually more likely that the pool would catch fire. Going forward maybe not so much.

Which is kinda funny since so many USAA employees live/work in San Antonio.

 

[Newdude]

It’s all the companies, USAA just happens to be based smack in the freezepocalypse. (which is ironically comical now that you point it out, nice catch )

It’s the same with healthcare. Every year we pay more for less. Somebody has every right to complain about their insurer, but it’s not like the other companies were slashing bills and giving out more.

in this instance, freezing was on NOBODIES radar, not the insurers or the insurees.

 

[JJOM]

Thanks for the feedback. I too am with USAA (Even with their jacking the rates every year).

 

[cowboycasey]

How do the northern states deal with the pool freezing.. My Intex froze completely, the whole pool is/was one giant block of ice... I would think the inground pools up north also freeze solid and we do not hear them saying plaster is falling off every year, this is the first time I have seen anyone asking about it... Are the northern pools plastered different than southern pools?

 

[JJ_Tex]

My wife is an agent (independent for multiple carriers) and she said they have all weaseled their way out of pool repairs from freezing and to some extent home repairs over the years.

Most have clauses that say they do not cover the direct damage from the freeze. So that means if a pipe in your house freezes, they don't cover the fixing of the pipe, but they do cover the damage from the burst pipe. Its pretty hard to have pool damage that is not considered direct damage from the freeze. Shady, but its not just USAA.

If it makes you feel any better, during the freeze I was really worried about my tile and tanning ledge due to all of the ice on the pool and I was wishing I would have the time to drain down the water below the tile. After reading this, I'm glad I didn't have that opportunity and sorry you are going through this.

 

[ajw22]

How do the northern states deal with the pool freezing.. My Intex froze completely, the whole pool is/was one giant block of ice...

AGP pools do not have the insulation of the ground to prevent them from totally freezing. An inground pool will only freeze down to the frost line at the most. Up by me that may be 20" deep.

I don't even know if my pool water freezes since it has a solid pool cover on top and usually when the weather is freezing for days it is snow covered, I think the pool cover and the foot or more of snow over the pool actually creates a blanket to keep the water temperature above the air temperature.

I would think the inground pools up north also freeze solid and we do not hear them saying plaster is falling off every year, this is the first time I have seen anyone asking about it... Are the northern pools plastered different than southern pools?

The freezing damage happens when the water level is right at a ledge or step and the ice freezes on the surface. Pools in the North usually don't have tanning ledges and pool companies who winterize the pools know to lower the water below any ledges and steps. During the winter rain and snow melt can raise the pool level and get it up to a pool surface. But as I noted above I think a pool cover and snow pack act as a blanket and prevents much freezing of the water. Occasionally I have seen plaster damage on Northern pools from ice. But it is rare.

 

[cowboycasey]

Thanks for the explanation I really wanted to know because I am doing an all tile pool and was not sure...

 

[ajw22]

Thanks for the explanation I really wanted to know because I am doing an all tile pool and was not sure...

All tile has the issue that whatever level you lower the water to the waterline will be against grout lines. Cracks in grout letting water in and freezing will loosen grout and tiles. You should plan on carefully checking your grout and patching any cracks. I go over my grout once or twice a year.

 

[HeyEng]

Most have clauses that say they do not cover the direct damage from the freeze. So that means if a pipe in your house freezes, they don't cover the fixing of the pipe, but they do cover the damage from the burst pipe. Its pretty hard to have pool damage that is not considered direct damage from the freeze. Shady, but its not just USAA.

Oh no doubt. I will only have USAA or Amica for my primary insurer. I have several friends that are in the insurance defense (as well as plaintiff side) legal world and it's widely accepted that USAA and Amica are pretty much the go to insurance folks when it comes to best coverages and best legal defense (if you have a liability claim against you). But, I agree that all insurers have slowly gotten away from covering stuff that used to be covered. Insurance is expensive for a reason... a couple years ago for the first time EVER, USAA paid out more money in claims than they took in premiums. If I recall, they paid out about $1.03 for every $1.00 of premiums (attributed mainly to texting & driving accidents).

 

[cowboycasey]

Oh no doubt. I will only have USAA or Amica for my primary insurer. I have several friends that are in the insurance defense (as well as plaintiff side) legal world and it's widely accepted that USAA and Amica are pretty much the go to insurance folks when it comes to best coverages and best legal defense (if you have a liability claim against you). But, I agree that all insurers have slowly gotten away from covering stuff that used to be covered. Insurance is expensive for a reason... a couple years ago for the first time EVER, USAA paid out more money in claims than they took in premiums. If I recall, they paid out about $1.03 for every $1.00 of premiums (attributed mainly to texting & driving accidents).

I have and love USAA but they are a business, they make A LOT of money even after paying claims...

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2019/04/19/usaas-profit-declines-in-2018-as-revenue-increases.html#:~:text=All%20of%20the%20San%20Antonio,are%20from%20net%20insurance%20premiums

.

 

[kmom]

We both drained our pools to the same point below the tile. Both our pools froze. We helped each other in winterizing our pools together. Apart from the damage I have to the tanning ledges, benches and steps, there is an entire circle of damage to the plaster at the water level(ice level) all the way around my pool. There is no damage to ANY of his plaster, at the level where his water(ice) was, tanning ledge, sides of pool or otherwise.

His pool is almost identical in dimensions and depth. We had the same thickness of ice on top of our pool. The only difference of significance is that he used a different brand and type of plaster. I hear what you are saying, and I get the point you are trying to make, and I think you to be on to something in the 1" above and below ice level damage.

That said, in this case, one plaster appears to have been much more durable than another. I won't be replacing with the brand/type(NPT Stonescapes) I used the first time.

We had plaster damage in our spa as well, but none in the pool, which also froze over but probably not to the same thickness as the spa. Our water level in the spa did not drop, it stayed up into the tile. The damage seems to be limited to the depth of the thickness of the ice? We also have NPT plaster (quartzscapes), so your theory about plaster brand is intriguing. Do you mind sharing what brand of plaster your neighbor who did not have damage has?

 

[jimim]

I'm in a totally different region but I have talked about this in a few threads int he past cause I had a little delimitation after my first winter closing with my quartz finish. I opened up to my top second step having a grey hue to it. I got a hold of onbalance and a pool builder here. They both are the ones that told me about water freezing to plaster and the damage it can do on flat surfaces. Pretty much my education was for future winters to make sure there is enough water, like said here, so that when ice forms the ice does not form on the step and freeze to it. you wanter some water no ice on that step. that makes for a very tricky situation. pretty much involves me making sure i keep my water level just right in the winter and make sure if i see ice forming i adjust as needed. that grey area did lighten up a great deal cause i guess i got lucky. they had me take some wet sandpaper to it to lighten it up but not to go crazy cause yah you are taking plaster off. i let it go and over the past 3 seasons i barely nice it now, but water level and ice formation on plaster for those that get freeze i feel is a very very important sticky for owners cause i learned a hard way along with many here.

plaster pools are tough. i always thought they were tough were i live cause of winter but after this winter i see it's an issue possibly everywhere. it sucks. this has been a hard winter. my pool cover is pulled so far and hard down right now cause i have a chunk of ice and snow wit the cover stuck in-between it. everyday it gets a bit better with melt but i don't think we are going to have enough sun to get it totally melted for a while. i too kat the snow off the cover to the cent er the best i can but i still got a floating ice cube. the rest of my water isn't frozen. i really wanted to check my steps but i'm afraid of i let some of those cover straps go i'm not getting them back on.

 

[Technobuyer]

Do you mind sharing what brand of plaster your neighbor who did not have damage has?

It's a different owner than the one who built the pool, but he doesn't know the brand. I remember when my previous neighbor built the pool, I asked him and it was different than mine. That's all I remember.

Just got back in town and was able to power up all the equipment(except didn't start heater due to water temps). All the equipment, valves, etc seem to be working properly. The plaster damage also appears to just be cosmetic. While expensive to repair, there is no super urgent need to do so. It is getting redone here shortly(SWMBO won't let it sit like that long), but it's nice that it's not leaking and that I can run filter until we can get someone out to do it.

As for USAA, they have been going down hill for a long time. Their auto insurance still seems solid, but every other product has been in decline for years imo. I told the gal on the phone I could leave and go to Amica, cash out my SSA account(about $9,500) and pay for the plaster repair. She didn't have much to say about that.

 

[HeyEng]

It's a different owner than the one who built the pool, but he doesn't know the brand. I remember when my previous neighbor built the pool, I asked him and it was different than mine. That's all I remember.

Just got back in town and was able to power up all the equipment(except didn't start heater due to water temps). All the equipment, valves, etc seem to be working properly. The plaster damage also appears to just be cosmetic. While expensive to repair, there is no super urgent need to do so. It is getting redone here shortly(SWMBO won't let it sit like that long), but it's nice that it's not leaking and that I can run filter until we can get someone out to do it.

As for USAA, they have been going down hill for a long time. Their auto insurance still seems solid, but every other product has been in decline for years imo. I told the gal on the phone I could leave and go to Amica, cash out my SSA account(about $9,500) and pay for the plaster repair. She didn't have much to say about that.

Glad to hear all is OK for the time being. And great news on the plaster.

We have back and forth between USAA and Amica for years. They both have similar (or same) AM Best ratings, so there is no good sense paying more for one or the other, and none of them really reward you for being long time customers. Every year, I compare the two and pick the cheapest. And as you pointed out, if you "leave" USAA you get to get your SSA money.

 

[j45]

Huh, never really looked into the SSA for USAA. Anyway, we got a quote for $1500 for replastering the spa but apparently it will take 30 days to cure. So I think I will wait till late summer when we have our 3-4 month drought to do it, I think I can isolate the spa from the rest of the pool.

I'm hoping my home warranty will replace my busted heater, it is original to the pool so about 20 years old, otherwise I will at least try to get USAA to help. We'll see. Freeze damage seems like an insurance/warranty thing to me but obviously not to them....