Pool remodel

[Mrszym]

Hi everyone.
I purchased a house with a busted up pool, i'm in the process of fixing the cracks and getting it ready to hold water but I have a few questions on the equipment that is being recommended. I met a guy online that helps people build spas and pool. He recommended I go with the following equipment.

406AENCCS RayPak natural gas heater 399K sea level $2986.98
Electronic ignition for altitudes below 2000’
Renaissance UV and Ozone $1080
1 60301CS 420 sf clean clear plus cartridge filter $1088.42
1 40039CS 1-1/2hp superflow pump $643.38
2 10712SCS Auto skim IG skimmer $196.74
1 154AVPAK2CS Main drain concrete Hayward 2 pack $73.43
3 220080CS 2” X 8” nipple treaded $19.98
2 875CS Jandy 3 way valve 2” X 2-1/2 $136.37
1 104CS Timer $104.27


My pool is a 20 by 40 feet, about 31K gallons. I wan not planning on doing any features as I'm fixing it myself.

One thing to add is the heater will be switched during winter to heat my hot tub during winter to save on electrical heating cost.

I wanted to ask, is the UV and Ozone worth the $1080?
For the pump, am I okay with this single speed pump or would there be a benefit of going VS? I know they can be much more expensive.

In general I'm looking for advice and education so I make the right decision with this equipment.

Chris

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Chris, so glad you asked-

Ditch the idea of ANY UV/Ozone type equipment. Its basically snake oil when used on outdoor pools. Has usage on indoor pools that don't see the sun's UV rays (for free!) but even then it has to be way bigger than the dink units they sell you.
You need a source for chlorine and the best way to get chlorine is thru the use of a Salt Water Chlorine Generator.
Check this out--> How to Chlorinate Your Pool - Trouble Free Pool

That's a decent filter size Bigger is better.

No to the Superpump. In fact the PB could just be trying to move old stock?
You want a Variable Speed Pump. Far, far cheaper to run energy wise. In fact, after next year it will be the law for pool pumps over .7hp to all be Variable Speed.

I'll let others with more heating know how to chime in on that, and the other stuff.

Maddie

 

[kimkats]

Maddie has you well covered with your questions. So I get to ask for pictures of this diamond in the rough!

Kim

 

[Mrszym]

Thank you for the info, I will look at the Salt Water Chlorine Generator, and the VS pump. Any recommendations on what size pump I should get for this type of pool? As for the diamond in the rough, well here it is, I hope no one loses sleep over this bad boy LOL. Last year I build a spa in the corner and this year the plan is I finish up filling all the cracks, run new 2 inch pipes, pour new concrete walls, water proof it all and apply the epoxy paint.

 

[JodieM]

Awe, looks like Frankenstein right now. Can’t wait to see the progress you make!!

 

[SinCityCJ]

You came to right place ! Lots of great folks here to get you going in the right direction.


Are the walls concrete or coated Fg?
I’m no shell repair expert, but there are some here. Some serious cracks tho.

3 hp VS pump will give you enough to do what you need.

You might consider bumping up to 2.5” piping, not much more $, less friction loss.

From a pad pipe standpoint, you will need more valves if you are completely repiping and intend to filter/ control both bodies of water with the single pump and heater. A pic of the existing equip pad would help in determining the best course of action and equipment for your needs.

In addition to what you will find here, Inyo pools has some good diy tips, and plumbing diagrams on their site. I would recommend contacting them about your exact plumbing scenario before you purchase any equipment. Then, diagram it all out to get what you need.

Are you planning on excavating the deck to replace the existing plumbing at the wall? If so, there’s good folks here that will offer advice on how you want to tackle that. Considering the existing shell damage, you will need to go about that very methodically to avoid any additional stress on the shell.

Adding the dual main drain means chipping into the shell or raising the floor. Similar for replacing the skimmer. Both need to be done with care and repaired properly using hydraulic cement and bonding agent. For that size pool, given the amount of work at hand, I would add a second skimm.

Any lights in the pool?

 

[kimkats]

pour new concrete walls, water proof it all and apply the epoxy paint.

More details please:
-pour new concrete walls-where?
-water proof it all-what will you be using for that?
-epoxy paint-Please say no to this-all of this work to paint it. Paint is not what it was a while back. It will only last for about a year or so before it starts chalking and coming off Do it right and put new plaster in so it is fixed for the long run!

Are YOU doing the work or is your wallet? aka paying someone to do it?

Kim

 

[Mrszym]

More details please:
-pour new concrete walls-where?
-water proof it all-what will you be using for that?
-epoxy paint-Please say no to this-all of this work to paint it. Paint is not what it was a while back. It will only last for about a year or so before it starts chalking and coming off Do it right and put new plaster in so it is fixed for the long run!

Are YOU doing the work or is your wallet? aka paying someone to do it?

Kim

The walls are fiberglass and they are in bad shape. The plan is for me to pour new concrete walls right up against the existing fiberglass walls, 6 to 8 inches thick, had a quote for this and they told me 3K for the work, lot cheaper then having a fiberglass guy come and try to fix the walls.
For the waterproofing I purchased Basecrete. It was recommended by a guy who helped me build the hot tub ( Basecrete )
As for the epoxy paint I'm kinda committed at this point, since I already have the Basecrete. I used the Olympic Zeron Epoxy pool paint and used the primer they sell to help with the bonding. That is what I planned on using for the pool as well. The main thing is that I will be doing all of this myself so even though I will need to apply new paint every few years I can do that myself. I had a few quotes for fixing this pool for me and the low quote was about 40K and the high was 80K.

 

[Mrszym]

You came to right place ! Lots of great folks here to get you going in the right direction.


Are the walls concrete or coated Fg?
I’m no shell repair expert, but there are some here. Some serious cracks tho.

3 hp VS pump will give you enough to do what you need.

You might consider bumping up to 2.5” piping, not much more $, less friction loss.

From a pad pipe standpoint, you will need more valves if you are completely repiping and intend to filter/ control both bodies of water with the single pump and heater. A pic of the existing equip pad would help in determining the best course of action and equipment for your needs.

In addition to what you will find here, Inyo pools has some good diy tips, and plumbing diagrams on their site. I would recommend contacting them about your exact plumbing scenario before you purchase any equipment. Then, diagram it all out to get what you need.

Are you planning on excavating the deck to replace the existing plumbing at the wall? If so, there’s good folks here that will offer advice on how you want to tackle that. Considering the existing shell damage, you will need to go about that very methodically to avoid any additional stress on the shell.

Adding the dual main drain means chipping into the shell or raising the floor. Similar for replacing the skimmer. Both need to be done with care and repaired properly using hydraulic cement and bonding agent. For that size pool, given the amount of work at hand, I would add a second skimm.

Any lights in the pool?

Thank you, I will need a lot of help to make this project happen, I feel I may be biting more then I can handle but I know I cant handle 40 to 80K to pay someone to fix it for me so I will handle it one task at a time.

Walls are fiberglass, in bad shape, have a few cracks and wholes, the joints dont look good ether.
I was planning on running two inch pipe. I'm trying to avoid destroying the check around the pool as that would not only be a lot of work but also a huge cost. So what I came up with was to run the PVC pipe right up against the current fiberglass wall. Then have the concrete guy come and pour new walls in, incensing the pipes in concrete. I know I can get in trouble if I ever have a leak but at this point I dont think I have much of an option.

I will look at the 3 HP VS pump, sounds like a VS is the way to go, thank you for the info.

The spa has its own filter, pumps and is completely separated form the pool in that aspect. The only thing that I plan on doing is re positioning the gas heater from the pool to use in the spa, this way I can save on the electricity when heating the spa in winter. Everything will be in the shed, I'm attaching a picture of the spa equipment, I still need to clean it up a bit.

About the main drain. the one I have is cracked, someone threw a huge rock into the pool which cracked a peace of the drain. I was thinking of fixing it with plumbers epoxy. I'm afraid to cut it out and install a new dual drain, I'm afraid I will do something wrong which will cause a leak there. To make the existing drain safe I was planning on installing a cover that's VGB compliant.
As for the skimmer, I was told I could find skimmers that would fit in the new concrete wall, which will be 6 to 8 inches deep. I was having a hard time finding those, are there any that you know of?
I'm not familiar with the bonding agent you mentioned. Would you have any links that would elaborate more on what that is used for?

Thank you very much for your reply and help with all of this. I hope with everyone help I can make this dream of mine come true.

Chris

 

[Mrszym]

As weather is getting better I wanted to get things ready to repair some of the smaller cracks in the shallow end of the pool. What I wanted to ask is, should I install rebar Staples or is it enough for me to just to cut out like I did in the picture and fill it in with hydraulic cement? I'm not sure if the cracks are big enough to use rebar or not.

 

[SinCityCJ]

Ok, so “pool inside a pool” concept. That makes things clearer. It does add a layer of complexity though, so I would recommend thorough investigation of the options before starting. You have PB quotes for the repair, so thats a start. Acting as your own contractor is fine, just be sure of what you are getting into. I highly recommend consulting with a structural engineer before going any further. It will be money well spent and provide you valuable information on making the structure solid.

IG pools have either a bond beam or in the case of FG, a collar, that anchors the top of the pool to the ground. I believe the engineer will require this to be tied into your new walls, likely by drilling and fastening with either rebar or epoxied bolts.

A bonding agent is used to join new and old cement, mortar, etc..., intended to increase the strength of the joint. It can be mixed in and/or applied to the old surface. Home improvement or hardware stores should carry it, $12-15/gallon.

Main drains are not essential, so you could eliminate it entirely. If you choose to repair it , use a high quality epoxy to repair the body and hydraulic cement around the repaired assembly. A word of caution, the plastic drain body may not take the repair and may force you to replace or abandon it.


Gunite skimmers are available in a variety of sizes. However, a typical install is actually behind the pool wall. This allows for creation Of anthroat or funnel. Does the existing skim work or is it trashed?

Shallow end - IMO, add staples here as well.

 

[Mrszym]

Ok, so “pool inside a pool” concept. That makes things clearer. It does add a layer of complexity though, so I would recommend thorough investigation of the options before starting. You have PB quotes for the repair, so thats a start. Acting as your own contractor is fine, just be sure of what you are getting into. I highly recommend consulting with a structural engineer before going any further. It will be money well spent and provide you valuable information on making the structure solid.

IG pools have either a bond beam or in the case of FG, a collar, that anchors the top of the pool to the ground. I believe the engineer will require this to be tied into your new walls, likely by drilling and fastening with either rebar or epoxied bolts.

A bonding agent is used to join new and old cement, mortar, etc..., intended to increase the strength of the joint. It can be mixed in and/or applied to the old surface. Home improvement or hardware stores should carry it, $12-15/gallon.

Main drains are not essential, so you could eliminate it entirely. If you choose to repair it , use a high quality epoxy to repair the body and hydraulic cement around the repaired assembly. A word of caution, the plastic drain body may not take the repair and may force you to replace or abandon it.


Gunite skimmers are available in a variety of sizes. However, a typical install is actually behind the pool wall. This allows for creation Of anthroat or funnel. Does the existing skim work or is it trashed?

Shallow end - IMO, add staples here as well.

Thank you very much for the reply and details you provided. I'm trying to connect with a structural engineer to make sure my plan will work and I hope he will recommend a way for the new concrete wall to bond well with the existing concrete floor. I was planning on drilling rebar into the floor and extending it up to the new wall, but maybe there is more that needs to be done. It has been hard to get a hold of anyone because of the corona virus so I hope my plan will not get pushed back.

As for the main drain, I will be checking the plumbing for the main drain once the rain stops and I can empty the pool. If plumbing is okay then I will try to save it, if not then probably eliminate it. One question, I read in a few posts that in a pool with a 10 foot deep end a main drain is more important. Would you say that is not really the case? I dont want to skip over something that will end up giving me problems in the future.

I have two skimmers in the pool but to be honest I have not tested the plumbing on them so I'm not sure how they are. Would you say I should try to keep them and just extend the throat (assuming the pipes are okay? One thing I worry about is the pipes are over 30 years old, if they are in tact at the moment, how long will they be okay before I start having problems with them. This is why I was planning on running new 2 inch PVC inside the concrete wall I plan on pouring. Any thoughts around that?

Thank you for the feedback on the staples, I placed an order for more and will add them to reinforce the floor in the shallow end as well.

I was trying to find some info on the main drain that I have in the pool but I'm having a hard time with this one, maybe someone here can shed some light on this. The main drain has a plug on it that is like a check valve, it is connected to a short pipe that is just going into the ground. From what I could find this is to reduce the chance of floating the pool up if the pool is drained. Is that correct? I fear that the thread on that is worn out and I cant screw in the new check valve into it. Is this needed? could there be a better way to make this work? any feedback on this is greatly appreciated.


I really appreciate all the information and input, this is relay helping me get through this project without making some stupid mistakes.

Chris.

 

[Mrszym]

Hi, I was able to connect with a structural engineer and he quoted me
ASSESSMENT: A fixed sum of $850.
STRUCTURAL DRAWINGS: A fixed sum of $950.

I have been having a hard time getting a hold of people due to the stay at home order in Illinois.
I wanted to ask if this price sounds reasonable? Or should I continue to look for a different engineer...

Thank you for your input.

 

[kimkats]

Pricing is so varied by location. What I would pay here in Fl could be far different than you would pay where you are. In fact in Houston, TX if you live "inside the circle" you will pay a far different price than if you live "outside the circle".

See if you can get at least one more and go from there.