Pool equipment update (need expert help please!)

carrieme

Bronze Supporter
Aug 12, 2020
20
New York, NY
Pool Size
32135
Surface
Plaster
Hello!

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but I'm hoping to get some insight on if this is a fair quote?

We purchased a foreclosure and all the equipment is pretty much shot from age (attaching a picture of what it looked like in its prime). There is a large pool Main Pool (42.5' x 24.58' --58762 gallons) w/ small waterfall, hot tub spa, and a separate large 20' waterfall feature which won't be heated but also needs update to its pumps/filters. This quote is also missing automation -- we currently have an outdated CP-2020 and I thought VS pumps make more sense from efficiency standpoint(?) but he didn't quote for it. I'm still waiting on another pool company to get back to me with their quote.

Total cost i'm being quoted is $35,146.54. Here's the breakdown:
PENTAIR TRITON SAND FILTER 36" TANK 650LB. SAND/275LB GRIT1,480.00
1,480.00​
PENTAIR TRITON SAND FILTER 36" TANK 650LB. SAND/275LB GRIT1,480.00
1,480.00​
PENTAIR TRITON SAND FILTER 36" TANK 650LB. SAND/275LB GRIT1,480.00
1,480.00​
RAYPAK HEATERS PROPANE 406 K BTU PROPANE DIGITAL ELECTRONIC2,689.00
2,689.00​
RAYPAK HEATERS PROPANE 406 K BTU PROPANE DIGITAL ELECTRONIC2,689.00
2,689.00​
RAYPAK HEATERS PROPANE 336 K BTU PROPANE DIGITAL ELECTRONIC2,450.00
2,450.00​
PENTAIR TRITON SAND FILTER 36" TANK 650LB. SAND/275LB GRIT1,480.00
1,480.00​
6 HAYWARD SUPER PUMP 2HP4,080.00
4,080.00​
6 HAYWARD SUPER PUMP 1.5 HP3,650.00
3,650.00​
INSTALL 3 POOL SKIMMER AND 3 POOL LIGHTS6,290.00
6,290.00​
CISTERN INSTALLATION AND MATERIALS , FITTINGS , VALVES PIPE PLUMBING5,280.00
5,280.00​
TAX 6.35%2,098.54
2,098.54​
 

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PoolGate

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 7, 2017
5,437
Damascus, MD
Pool Size
29000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
How did you get your pool volume? My pool is 42x22 and 9' deep and only 29k gallons. 4 filters? 3 heaters? I think we need way more detail. The run rate on that equipment is going to be like $2k/month. This seems awfully non-standard like a commercial pool.
 

cowboycasey

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 3, 2013
5,374
Southern OK
I am really confused on this quote... Why are there 3 sand filters? It looks like this pool was done years ago and they did not have the tools/pumps we do now...

1 IntelliFlo VSF 3hp pump would run all that now IntelliFlo VSF Pump
1 CCP 520 cart filter would clean all that now
1 400k heater would heat it now...

The waterfall can use this bad boy, 5hp VS pump with no filter on it.. WhisperFloXF® VS 5HP Variable Speed Pump

Unless I am totally off...
@jimmythegreek @JamesW oh yey pump gods, what say you :)
 
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JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,439
None of this really makes any sense.

12 pumps, 3 heaters, 4 filters???

For what???

We need detailed explanations of what you're trying to accomplish and the logic behind the recommendations.
 

carrieme

Bronze Supporter
Aug 12, 2020
20
New York, NY
Pool Size
32135
Surface
Plaster
How did you get your pool volume? My pool is 42x22 and 9' deep and only 29k gallons. 4 filters? 3 heaters? I think we need way more detail. The run rate on that equipment is going to be like $2k/month. This seems awfully non-standard like a commercial pool.
Our depth is 10’— I used a calculator for volume but I could have messed it up!
What other information should I provide to help? I know, it’s a lot...
 

PoolGate

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 7, 2017
5,437
Damascus, MD
Pool Size
29000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
Our depth is 10’— I used a calculator for volume but I could have messed it up!
What other information should I provide to help? I know, it’s a lot...

Yeah that is what it comes out to. What equipment is currently on the pool? And are you saying the waterfall is a totally separate structure with its own water/filtration and not connected to the main pool?
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,439
Do you have pictures of the current system?

What are all of the features and what flow rate do they require?

What is the plumbing for each feature?

Ask the builder to provide a detailed explanation of their recommendations.

As it is, the proposal looks ridiculous.

If the builder really knows what they are doing, they will have done a proper analysis and engineered a proper design.

So, if they really know what they're doing, they will have a full logical explanation for their design.

If they can't provide a full logical explanation of their design and the engineering behind it,, then they don't know what they are doing.
 

JJ_Tex

Gold Supporter
Bronze Supporter
Jul 17, 2019
2,297
Prosper, TX (DFW)
Pool Size
13000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
What other information should I provide to help? I know, it’s a lot...

Pictures usually help, can you include your current equipment and your pool?

As the others have said, usually you have 1 filter, 1 heater on a pool/spa setup and 1 main pump. Then depending on your setup, there may be a separate pump for water features or spas with tons of jets.
 

carrieme

Bronze Supporter
Aug 12, 2020
20
New York, NY
Pool Size
32135
Surface
Plaster
Do you have pictures of the current system?

What are all of the features and what flow rate do they require?

What is the plumbing for each feature?

Ask the builder to provide a detailed explanation of their recommendations.
Ill take some more pictures and share later!

This was built in the 80s and so he’s quoted here to replace/swap all the old equipment without digging new lines — this supposedly would be more economical than digging up and running new plumbing etc.
 

carrieme

Bronze Supporter
Aug 12, 2020
20
New York, NY
Pool Size
32135
Surface
Plaster
Yeah that is what it comes out to. What equipment is currently on the pool? And are you saying the waterfall is a totally separate structure with its own water/filtration and not connected to the main pool?
Yes that’s exactly how it is. The large 20ft waterfall is its own separate system, currently with 3 pumps and 1 Hayward sand filter.

I need to go double check the setup and number of pumps on everything else cause there’s a lot! I’ll report back later.
 

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JJ_Tex

Gold Supporter
Bronze Supporter
Jul 17, 2019
2,297
Prosper, TX (DFW)
Pool Size
13000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Yes that’s exactly how it is. The large 20ft waterfall is its own separate system, currently with 3 pumps and 1 Hayward sand filter.

I need to go double check the setup and number of pumps on everything else cause there’s a lot! I’ll report back later.
Cool. Hopefully we can help you lose some of those pumps with newer technology, that will save you some $ up front and operating costs. Its also very odd to me that someone would quote single speed pumps as those are about to be illegal to sell by this summer. Seems like he might be trying to unload his inventory of those while he still can.

With any large project like this, I would recommend you getting multiple quotes.
 

PoolGate

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 7, 2017
5,437
Damascus, MD
Pool Size
29000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
How many bodies of water need to be heated? Are there 3 heaters installed now? Need a full spread of pictures!
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,439
Its also very odd to me that someone would quote single speed pumps as those are about to be illegal to sell by this summer.
Only filtration pumps need to meet the efficiency requirements.

Water feature pumps are not covered by the rules.
 
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NJpoolNoob

Member
Dec 27, 2020
18
Hammonton NJ
First of all that it one awesome looking pool! Now to the topic at hand you are definitely getting charged the rich man's tax. Whether you are well off or not does not make it right to being over charged which this quote definitely is. I wouldnt use this contractor even if he corrects his estimate, he's already tried to rip you off.
 

carrieme

Bronze Supporter
Aug 12, 2020
20
New York, NY
Pool Size
32135
Surface
Plaster
First of all that it one awesome looking pool! Now to the topic at hand you are definitely getting charged the rich man's tax. Whether you are well off or not does not make it right to being over charged which this quote definitely is. I wouldnt use this contractor even if he corrects his estimate, he's already tried to rip you off.
Thanks! We are certainly not wealthy (re:foreclosure) but we fell in love with this old property that was abandoned for 5+ years with tons of character and are very slowly fixing it up. The home is located in Westchester if that helps clarify anything on the taxes—but I’m well aware a lot of people see the size of the backyard as instant $$$. While we want to restore the space, we also don’t want to go bankrupt, lol! All the house stuff we have been tackling on our own for the most part but with the pool system, it’s completely foreign so we are newbies. Grateful for all the help so far! I’ll get more pictures/details later once I can get out to the backyard.
 

carrieme

Bronze Supporter
Aug 12, 2020
20
New York, NY
Pool Size
32135
Surface
Plaster
So I went out there today to try to document and outline the space as much as possible to make things clearer.

I don't know the technical answers to a lot of this (...such as flow rate or what any of the old pumps/filters mean, but I tried to take as many detailed pictures as possible).

Let me know if there's any additional details you guys need after seeing these! Thanks so much! Appreciate all the help everyone has provided already so far.
 

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JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,439
This is probably way too complicated to advise over the internet.

Do you need to keep everything or can you eliminate things and simplify?

The company that is giving a quote should be able to provide some explanation of why they made the recommendations that they made.
 

carrieme

Bronze Supporter
Aug 12, 2020
20
New York, NY
Pool Size
32135
Surface
Plaster
This is probably way too complicated to advise over the internet.

Do you need to keep everything or can you eliminate things and simplify?

The company that is giving a quote should be able to provide some explanation of why they made the recommendations that they made.
After looking at everything today, we’ll probably figure out how to convert the separate pond section with pool plumbing to pond pump/filter so it’ll be removed from this equation as it’s own separate project.

What is the process of changing multiple single speed pumps to 1 variable speed?
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,439
What is the process of changing multiple single speed pumps to 1 variable speed?
Without knowing all details, we really can't advise on what the best plan is.

We need to know the plumbing sizes and lengths and the required flow rates.

You really need someone competent on site who knows what they're doing.

You should get multiple quotes.

Ask that the quotes include engineering data that explains the logic behind the design recommendations.
 
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jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 10, 2017
3,413
Morris Cnty NJ
That's a careless replace what's there quote. First off no knowing the history alot of hours are needed just testing the existing pipework. Once the flow patterns are figured out some engineering to re invent that old wheel is needed. Some of that electric may be bad too and some automation or control equipment is needed. What you have there is gonna cost a fortune in propane and electricity to run. Your biggest problem is covid19 amd the demand. Guys are booked way out so finding competent people is tough. Whatever you do dont just replace whats there with a simple replacement. And if that wasnt winterized you may have a mess on your hands
 
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