And sorry to be a bother still - but is there data around high FC levels and damage to pool surfaces? I think that's the main argument people make against keeping FC levels between 6-8 with a CYA of 50. Is that more about pH or something else? And was told high CYA levels also damage pool surface, but not sure where that might come from.Pool Water Chemistry
This thread presents my findings so far on pool water chemistry including the following: More Accurate Calcite Saturation Index (CSI) to replace Langelier Saturation Index (LSI) Calculation of ppm HOCl (disinfecting chlorine) at various levels of Total Free Chlorine (FC) and Cyanuric Acid (CYA)...www.troublefreepool.com
Pool company guy screwed up...
- Thread starter Pperc
- Start date
Share this article with your friend. New Thinking: Chlorine/Cyanuric Acid In Balance - AQUA Magazine
The information comes from Robert Lowry. Here's a brief biography:
"During the last 44 years Mr. Lowry has co-owned two chemical manufacturing companies - Leisure Time Chemical and Robarb - and a publishing company - Service Industry News. He was technical director for the world's largest retailer of pool and spa supplies, Leslie´s, was technology officer for an ozone manufacturer, DEL Ozone and consultant to numerous corporations from DuPont, Olin, Nalco, Albemarle and FMC to small startup companies looking to enter the pool and spa industry.
He has written 17 pool and spa water chemistry books, published more than 175 technical articles, written 29 "white" papers, written a monthly column for a major trade publication, given more than 500 water chemistry seminars and has certified more than 2,500 students to be CPOs. In addition, he has formulated, invented, developed and introduced more than 111 new chemical products into the pool and spa industry. He has recently revised the IPSSA Basic Training Manual and the IPSSA Intermediate Training Manual and has developed 3 iPhone and Smartphone Apps. He is one of the leading chemical experts in the pool industry. "
The information comes from Robert Lowry. Here's a brief biography:
"During the last 44 years Mr. Lowry has co-owned two chemical manufacturing companies - Leisure Time Chemical and Robarb - and a publishing company - Service Industry News. He was technical director for the world's largest retailer of pool and spa supplies, Leslie´s, was technology officer for an ozone manufacturer, DEL Ozone and consultant to numerous corporations from DuPont, Olin, Nalco, Albemarle and FMC to small startup companies looking to enter the pool and spa industry.
He has written 17 pool and spa water chemistry books, published more than 175 technical articles, written 29 "white" papers, written a monthly column for a major trade publication, given more than 500 water chemistry seminars and has certified more than 2,500 students to be CPOs. In addition, he has formulated, invented, developed and introduced more than 111 new chemical products into the pool and spa industry. He has recently revised the IPSSA Basic Training Manual and the IPSSA Intermediate Training Manual and has developed 3 iPhone and Smartphone Apps. He is one of the leading chemical experts in the pool industry. "
Here is his reply:
Thank you for pointing out that he was chief technology officer for Del Ozone. That company fleeced more dollars off of pool owners than any other company I can think of.
Also, why has he invented so many chemicals for pools? It is pretty basic as I recall you saying previously. Monitor pH, alkalinity, cyanuric acid, chlorine and occasionally phosphates. You do not need 111 chemicals to do that.
Tri-Chlor tabs, shock, sodium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate, muratic acid, phosphate remover. I kept pools spotless and equipment problem free for 10 years using those only 6 chemicals.
I guess I never tried to introduce 111 newpool chemicals and never needed to try toreinvent pool chemistry in order to sell them.
You are wasting your time trying to convert him. Enjoy your pool. Let him fight with his.
If your friend actually read the article he would see that most of the info comes from this actual forum and has now been adopted by Mr. Lowry (who is very engrained in the "traditional"/"established" pool standard world.) The info comes from Richard Falk (referenced in the article, Chem Geek on this forum) and Ben Powell who is known by Pool Doc on another pool forum. Lowry now agrees with Trouble Free Pool's methodology and has adopted it as his own.
But again, sounds like your friend knows it all so why bother teaching him anything.
If your friend actually read the article he would see that most of the info comes from this actual forum and has now been adopted by Mr. Lowry (who is very engrained in the "traditional"/"established" pool standard world.) The info comes from Richard Falk (referenced in the article, Chem Geek on this forum) and Ben Powell who is known by Pool Doc on another pool forum. Lowry now agrees with Trouble Free Pool's methodology and has adopted it as his own.
But again, sounds like your friend knows it all so why bother teaching him anything.
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The friend is in the industry, which I’m sure wouldn’t surprise you. He’s now said:
The science of introducing “111 new chemicals” into an industry that only basically needs 6 chemicals?
Or are you referring to the relationship of CYA and FC? You are not telling me anything I don’t already know about CYA. Buy the proper chemicals and it does not become an issue for about 10 years.
Pro-tip: not all chlorine tabs are created equal, even though they have the exact same concentration of components in them.
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You can have zero issues with pools from 30-100. I cleaned pools with 1000ppl weekend bathing loads and never had a single algae bloom or illness reported.
I am out of the cleaning game and buying chemicals now but you will need to research that yourself. Do not let that distract you from the fact that I check the chemistry on every pool I go to and the ones that experience the vast majority of issues all have a commonvariable. It is not low pH either.
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People can use tablets in the same pool for 10 years and never develop a CYA problem? 
- May 3, 2014
- 58,303
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Sand filters with massive back washes very often. If you change out lots of water often, you can use all the trichlor you want.
In many areas, that much water exchange is frowned upon.
In many areas, that much water exchange is frowned upon.
That and the not all all tablets are the same but same ingredients thing killed me. He wouldn’t answer when I said he was being cryptic. Said he didn’t owe me answers since he has spent so much time training.People can use tablets in the same pool for 10 years and never develop a CYA problem?
Maybe not in Texas. Also, my pool company was back washing weekly on my D.E. filter. I now know that was wrong.
This is a new one he just said:
“It has more to do with than just efficiency, it can stay at 10, 20, 30 psi (all pools are different) for months. If you are not back-washing, you are slowly crushing your internal filter components and that process can not be undone. You are looking at increased ongoing maintenance costs.”
So, dealing with something new now. Found little chunks of white stuff sitting on the bottom of the spa. I was thinking that it’s the surface of the pool/spa continuing to deteriorate but not sure. I fished some out and took pictures as well. Was hard but a bit brittle - I could break it with my fingers. Any thoughts?
The color difference is from flash vs no flash.
The color difference is from flash vs no flash.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,303
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Put it somewhere acid can't hurt and drop a little muraitic acid on it. What happens?
I do. You can look at my logs.
Reminder that I’ve only owned this house for 3 months so no clue what things were like last year, or if the salt cell has ever been cleaned, etc
Make sure to wear safety glasses and do it where nothing can get hurt if some of the acid gets on it.
Yes, I always wear safety glasses with the acid. Any suggestions on that sort of location?
I vacuum daily during pool season. It only takes about 10 minutes. I hate seeing Darn in the pool.