plumbing advice and install tips for new VS pump - worth upgrading pump from 1.5hp to 2.7hp?

[thefisch]

The biggest issue with Jandy is limited pool owner communication. All must go through a Jandy dealer, so no DIY at all. And as Allen said above, if the IQ thing dies or connectivity fails, you cannot control the pump. It is a boat anchor.

Pentair has a far better reliability as reported on this forum. The Intelliflo VS is the gold standard.

Ah, I was wondering why there were not as much about Jandy on the forum. Thanks for the background. I've sent some messages to members with the same Jandy model pump in their signature, but I only found two of them I've read good things about their gas heaters and parts like valves, but I guess their business model isn't as friendly with the pumps.

The local store I visited had the Intelliflo but it was about $600 more than the options I was looking at so I didn't really consider it. But looking at the details, I can see it also has a larger pump housing and HP. Putting the Jandy aside for a moment, if I was considering the Intelliflo as an upgrade over the SuperFlo/SuperMax, would I realize the claimed benefits or would it not be worth it:

• would work with my existing plumbing
• run the larger hp motor at an even lower rpm to achieve the equivalent output of the 1.5hp SuperFlo/SuperMax which would use less energy and save even more on my electric bill
• larger pump area which will circulate more water with each rotation
• pump construction is more robust given it is rated for a higher hp and could last longer when running it at a lower rpm

Part of my question was just about the pros/cons of upsizing and if the benefits would be realized.

 

[JamesW]

would work with my existing plumbing

Yes.

run the larger hp motor at an even lower rpm to achieve the equivalent output of the 1.5hp SuperFlo/SuperMax which would use less energy and save even more on my electric bill

The biggest benefit to a larger pump is that it can run slower and that makes it quieter.

The energy savings is not going to be a big factor for a 1.5 hp VS pump compared to a 2.7 hp VS pump.

I would get the bigger pump for less noise.

The requirement for straight pipe before a pump is really not that important.

That's only really important for pumps with no strainer where the water goes directly into the impeller.

As you can see below, the water does not travel straight anyway.

Also, at lower speeds, the requirement becomes even less important.

You should never need more than 40 gpm, and most of the time, 20 gpm is fine unless the heater is on.

 

[thefisch]

Yes.

The biggest benefit to a larger pump is that it can run slower and that makes it quieter.

The energy savings is not going to be a big factor for a 1.5 hp VS pump compared to a 2.7 hp VS pump.

I would get the bigger pump for less noise.

The requirement for straight pipe before a pump is really not that important.

That's only really important for pumps with no strainer where the water goes directly into the impeller.

As you can see below, the water does not travel straight anyway.

Also, at lower speeds, the requirement becomes even less important.

You should never need more than 40 gpm, and most of the time, 20 gpm is fine unless the heater is on.

Thanks for the insights and confirming the plumbing should be fine.

Without worthwhile energy savings by upgrading to the 2.7hp (to run at a lower rpm than the 1.5hp), it kind of takes the steam out of the higher upfront cost, especially considering there will be higher long term costs with more expensive replacement parts/motor on the higher hp model. The folks at the local pool store did acknowledge that I am getting the bulk of the energy savings from already having switched to a 1.5hp VSP, but they did suggest that I would still net additional savings by going to the high head, higher hp VSP. I guess that was sales talk - I was hoping I would see an extra $20-30 in savings a month.

I also figured out that the Pinnacle 1.5hp pump that I thought was original to my pool was actually installed in 2008, three years after the pool was built in 2005 by the first owner. When I showed a pool tech some photos of my current install, he commented that it looked like the plumbing was originally installed with a high head pump. That led me to track down the manufacture date of the Pinnacle pump which was 2008. Perhaps after three years, the original motor died and they replaced it with a cheaper pump. He said that was common in my area since most homes have pools and there is high turnover in the local neighborhoods (when I bought I was the 3rd owner in six years).

But even if my pool build was installed with a higher head pump, I haven't had any issues with running the pool on the 1.5hp Pinnacle. There seems to be good pressure coming from the jets when running in spa mode at the highest rpm. But I don't have anything to compare to know if it would be better jet pressure or water flow with higher hp.

 

[thefisch]

I believe I am past the detour of the larger Jandy 2.7hp VSP that a local pool store suggested. Maybe it was the promise of energy savings with a higher HP VSP combined with the "sex appeal" of the iQPUMP01 wifi app control, but I think I've gotten back on track. I stopped by their store again and their inventory for this Jandy VSP is from 2018. I know it's been sitting on a shelf for 3 years so the age shouldn't matter, but that made it clearer to me that they were trying to clear out the stock which is why they were also adding the iQPUMP01 at no additional cost to broaden the sales prospects to those without automation (like me). Going to head out again today to get a SuperFlo VST or SuperMax depending on what's in stock.

A question on the Pentair warranty though - it appears that Pentair requires professional installation to get a 2 year parts warranty on the SuperFlo/SuperMax. If I DIY install, it may only have a 60 day warranty. Is that correct? If so, I have a friend who is licensed for pool install, maybe I can work something out with him so that I can show professional install to get the 2 year warranty. That's if the warranty is worth going through the trouble to get.

@JamesW Thanks again for the advice on the negligible energy savings and the benefit of less noise from the higher hp VSP. I found our old Vgreen 165 to only be a noise issue when running at 3100rpm for the suction cleaner for a couple of hours in the morning. At lower speeds for the remaining run time, the noise level was barely noticable given the location of our pump. So I don't feel compelled to upgrade the hp for less noise.

I am a little embarrassed that I hadn't checked the online calculators for VSP pump savings to see if the sales rep for the Jandy VSP wasn't blowing smoke. I know those online calculators are just guessing at VSP savings compared to single speed pumps, but there were a resource I could have checked. Based on the Pentair and Jandy saving estimators based on my 15k gallon pool and local power rates, Pentair estimates the IntelliFlo would save $9 a year over the SuperFlo while Jandy estimates a $2 annual savings between the 2.7hp and 1.65hp VSP. That sales guy was really feeding me some bull. Thanks again for setting me straight.

 

[mknauss]

Pentair sells items that show EC in the part number, that is E Commerce and carry a 1 year warranty, regardless of whom installed it.

Here is a link to a company many of us have used for pool items.
Polytec Pools - Superflo VS

 

[thefisch]

Pentair sells items that show EC in the part number, that is E Commerce and carry a 1 year warranty, regardless of whom installed it.

Here is a link to a company many of us have used for pool items.
Polytec Pools - Superflo VS

Thanks @mknauss for the info on the EC part number and one year warranty. Is the warranty worth getting? I ask because I was looking to install this weekend or early next week so I was going to pickup locally rather than wait on shipping from a website.

Online with 1 year warranty is $1,059 shipped. Locally, Leslie's has it for the same price but there is an additional military discount this weekend of 10% bringing it down to $953 ($1,025 with tax). Going to see if they have any left. If they are out of stock, the local Pinch a Penny has it for $1,136 on sale this weekend ($1,221 with tax).

 

[mknauss]

Warranty is up to you. Always good for first few months of life as that is when most electrical issues occur.

Be ware that old Superflo VS do NOT have the RS485 connection, if that matters to you. The Polytec ones do have that ability.

 

[thefisch]

Warranty is up to you. Always good for first few months of life as that is when most electrical issues occur.

Be ware that old Superflo VS do NOT have the RS485 connection, if that matters to you. The Polytec ones do have that ability.

I could always work a low cost arrangement with my installer friend to show professional install to get the 2 year warranty. It's just not all warranties are worthwhile especially if they require that you remove the part and ship it back for inspection before they send a replacement. Then you're down for additional days or weeks and might be better just buying the replacement part yourself. Some companies are more customer friendly with warranties and will send the part in advance (with credit card on file) to help with the swap out and shorter downtime and only charge you if you don't return the broken part.

How is Pentair when it comes to warranty replacements?

And thanks for the reminder about the RS485 connection. I had seen that Superflo/Supermax models made after 11/2020 have that added functionality. I was going to check the manufacture date of what they have in stock locally. While I don't have automation now, it seems like a good idea to get a more recent build date if available for potential future use.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

A question on the Pentair warranty though - it appears that Pentair requires professional installation to get a 2 year parts warranty on the SuperFlo/SuperMax. If I DIY install, it may only have a 60 day warranty. Is that correct?

Ask the retailer about this. Pentair's warranties are a bit confusing and ambiguous. Pentair says, "TradeGrade products must be purchased from a retail store (brick & mortar), pool builder or pool service company to receive a one-year, two-year or three-year warranty." The warranty card states that some items don't require professional installation for extended warranties.

The price quoted for your VST (mdl 342002) sounds like a good deal. I would take it over the VS (342001) to maintain the RS-485 connectivity. My dad had one installed about 10 years ago and it's still running strong and quiet. My F.I.L. just had one installed early this season. It's a great pump.

 

[thefisch]

Picked up the SuperFlo VST from Leslie's for just under $1,020 with tax. It was their last one and a July 2021 build so it should have the RS-485 connectivity for future use. Thanks for everyone's input on the decision.

Also picked up the MX-8 Elite while the 10% off and $100 rebate is going on. Going to replace my 9 year old Great White since it needs new gears and the oscillator gets stuck sometimes and has worn into the plastic lower body.

Regarding the warranty, the store confirmed that since it is the VST model, there is officially only a 60 day warranty for DIY install. But the manager explained they can help with warranty claims after the 60 days since they handle them all the time and Pentair has the service centers collect the proof of warranty (purchase date and professional installation). I may get my friend's help to have proof of professional install just in case. New pump should be going in tomorrow or later next week.

 

[ajw22]

If you want the Pentair warranty then register the pump online and download to them a receipt from your professional pool friend that he installed the pump.

 

[KellyAH]

From page 3 in https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...-pumps/superflovs/supervs-install-english.pdf

However, we also recommend that a valve, elbow or tee installed in the suction line should be no closer to the front of the pump than five (5) times the suction line diameter. See Figure 2.
Example: A 2.5" pipe requires a 12.5" (31.8 cm) straight run in front of the suction port. This will help
the pump prime faster and last longer.
Note: DO NOT install 90° elbows directly into the suction or discharge ports.

Is your pump bonded?

Yeah, I noticed that, too. What do you think about rotating the pipe at the valve so that the pipe runs up at an angle rather than horizontally? Then at the 90, you'd have a straight run to the pump fitting with none of that 45 stuff?

 

[ajw22]

Yeah, I noticed that, too. What do you think about rotating the pipe at the valve so that the pipe runs up at an angle rather than horizontally? Then at the 90, you'd have a straight run to the pump fitting with none of that 45 stuff?

How you going to rotate the pipe at the valve without replacing the valve?

 

[thefisch]

If you want the Pentair warranty then register the pump online and download to them a receipt from your professional pool friend that he installed the pump.

Will be sure to do that.

 

[JamesW]

You can use (2) 22.5 degree fittings to raise the level.

You could also use just one 22.5 degree fitting to make the pipe go at an upward slant and then do a 90 to go to the pump.

2" Sch 40 PVC 22-1/2 Elbow Soc 465-020

In stock now - 2" Sch 40 PVC 22-1/2 Elbow Soc 465-020. Order from PVC Fittings Online and save!

www.pvcfittingsonline.com

 

[thefisch]

So the install went pretty smoothly. In fact the SuperFlo was the perfect height for the existing suction line so there was no need to make any height adjustments. On the return side, decided to use a 45 closer to the multiport. See photos below. New pump is humming along now. Going to work on programming a schedule and speeds later on and also setup the new MX8 Elite.





New check valve:

 

[SacPoolPro]

I deal with only pool equipment and use all of the brands. I would get the Jandy pump over the Superflo for sure. I install 1-2 pumps daily and have grown to prefer the Jandy pumps. They are well built and I've never had anyone call me back for any warranty or issues on the pumps or the iqpump01. If you decide you don't like the app which I'd be surprised, you can always swap it for the jep-r controller so you are not stuck with a boat anchor. I quit installing superflo vs pumps a couple of years ago. I'm not a fan. I had 3 warranty callbacks within a few month on them, they have 1.5in" unions so they restrict your flow, they are only 1.5hp. Most single speeds I would replace are rated at least 1.65hp when you consider the service factor of those pumps. These are my experiences. I try to stay unbiased, but I have been steering away from Pentair for some time now. I'm not the only one either. Other fulltime installers and repair guys I know locally agree with me.

 

[thefisch]

Thanks for the feeback on the Jandy. I already went with the Superflo since it was less expensive and offered comparable energy savings to the larger hp Jandy.

 

[swadeab]

How long did it take you to get your rebate from teco or did the application say? I switched mine out without thinking about the rebate but i have another i can flip out.

I remember applying for a Hillsborough county water dept rebate (toilets) kinda funny, some check showed up years later i barely remembered what it was for lol

 

[thefisch]

I think the rebate took less than two weeks from submission to receiving in the mail. Would have been faster if not for the Thanksgiving holiday.