PAVERS DONE - Tampa, FL - Pool/Spa

JJ_Tex

Gold Supporter
Bronze Supporter
Jul 17, 2019
2,536
Prosper, TX (DFW)
Pool Size
13000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
So the heater bypass, I'm thinking when I'm using the pool mode there's no way I'm ever going near the 120gpm because I'm just running a few returns and the features on a separate pump. My concern is when I'm in the spa, would I ever use the pump full blast? If so, the charts are showing I'm well over 120gpm with the intelliflo. I only have 6 jets, so maybe it would feel beyond uncomfortable to turn that on over 120gpm anyway? That's like 20 gallons per minute each - maybe there's no way I'd want more than that? Plus, then I'd have to manually open it for spa mode and close it for pool mode (or get another intellivalve) - seems inconvenient hmm...
I usually just look at the RPMs and ignore GPM, but I do have an intelliflo and a spa with 6 jets. I run my spa at around 2400 rpms and it runs just fine and I dont recall much of a difference in kicking it up higher. I also checked and my 2400 rpms give me 40 gpm, so not sure I could even get to 120 GPM. Hope that helps.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,068
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Jim! Just happened to read your mod profile earlier today while going through the site lol thanks for all you do here!
So the heater bypass, I'm thinking when I'm using the pool mode there's no way I'm ever going near the 120gpm because I'm just running a few returns and the features on a separate pump. My concern is when I'm in the spa, would I ever use the pump full blast? If so, the charts are showing I'm well over 120gpm with the intelliflo. I only have 6 jets, so maybe it would feel beyond uncomfortable to turn that on over 120gpm anyway? That's like 20 gallons per minute each - maybe there's no way I'd want more than that? Plus, then I'd have to manually open it for spa mode and close it for pool mode (or get another intellivalve) - seems inconvenient hmm...

The heater bypass is useful if your have issues with your water chemistry, especially low pH, for any reason. Or if your heater gets a leak and then you can bypass it and keep running the pool until you get it repaired.

 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I usually just look at the RPMs and ignore GPM, but I do have an intelliflo and a spa with 6 jets. I run my spa at around 2400 rpms and it runs just fine and I dont recall much of a difference in kicking it up higher. I also checked and my 2400 rpms give me 40 gpm, so not sure I could even get to 120 GPM. Hope that helps.
Is it standard for them to install a GPM check valve after the pump, or is that something I should expect to do myself? Seems like a good idea to have so that I can decide what RPM to run it at for proper operation of the heater and just 3 returns. So let's say I want to turn over the pool twice, and the heater has a minimum of 40 GPM so say I figure out what RPM it takes to do 45 GPM and turn it over twice? I.E. 13,000 gallons twice is 26k/45gpm is 578 minutes i.e. let's call it 10 hours. Then when I get solar, I'll want those 10 hours to be from around 10am to 8pm?

The heater bypass is useful if your have issues with your water chemistry, especially low pH, for any reason. Or if your heater gets a leak and then you can bypass it and keep running the pool until you get it repaired.
Ahh that makes sense, if I have to SLAM or whatever they call it. So if they don't install it, I'll put one in - looks simple.
 
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mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
44,353
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
So let's say I want to turn over the pool twice,
Turnover is a myth. In your case without a SWCG, you need to run the pump to skim the surface and mix the liquid chlorine you add. GPM is meaningless.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
23,110
Bedford, TX
I guess it is LITERALLY bypassing the filter/SWG/heater but why? It's the pump on the right in the diagram feeding SD, F, and BP:

Matt,

For a slide, you don't need filtered water.. Do you really want to add another filter just for fun?? You can't really use the same filter for two pumps...

I never recommend using GPM.. But, it is your pool and you should do what you want... I just like simple things that work.. Making things more complicated to get the same result just does not make much sense to me.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

JJ_Tex

Gold Supporter
Bronze Supporter
Jul 17, 2019
2,536
Prosper, TX (DFW)
Pool Size
13000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Is it standard for them to install a GPM check valve after the pump, or is that something I should expect to do myself? Seems like a good idea to have so that I can decide what RPM to run it at for proper operation of the heater and just 3 returns. So let's say I want to turn over the pool twice, and the heater has a minimum of 40 GPM so say I figure out what RPM it takes to do 45 GPM and turn it over twice? I.E. 13,000 gallons twice is 26k/45gpm is 578 minutes i.e. let's call it 10 hours. Then when I get solar, I'll want those 10 hours to be from around 10am to 8pm?
I'm not familiar with a GPM check valve, so I cant really answer that. I don't believe I have one, nor do I think I could come close to 120 GPM. If you really want to figure out everything, you can calculate the resistance/head which includes total length of pvc pipes, angles, equipment, any vertical rise, etc. Once you plug all of that in and calculate the head, you can look at the pump charts to see if you really need to be worried about exceeding the max GPM of your equipment. I'm assuming you will be fine here.

As for "turnover", as Marty said, that is a myth and not really important at all. I run my pump to do 3 things:
1. Generate chlorine from my SWCG
2. Skim debris off the top
3. Pump the water through the filter to remove any particles in the water

Most people put way too much emphasis on #3 and think that the filter will kill algae and that their water must pass through the filter x number of times a day. The chlorine in the water is what kills and prevents algae, not the filter. If you focus on #1 and #2 above, #3 is generally covered.

If helpful, I also have a 13,000 gallon pool and run my pump 24/7 as follows:
20 hours a day @ 1400 rpms (9 gpm)
4 hours a day @ 2400 rpms (41 gpm)
I just did the math and that means I turnover my pool 1.6 times a day. I've never had algae because I keep up my chlorine, and I've never noticed any cloudiness or anything (even at night with the lights on) that would tell me I need to be filtering more often. Hope that helps.
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Turnover is a myth. In your case without a SWCG, you need to run the pump to skim the surface and mix the liquid chlorine you add. GPM is meaningless.
Ahh good to know that there isn't really a turnover rule, I think I read that once here before and it slipped my mind. Want to mention I do have the IC40 - I assume you're implying you need less mixing with a SWG because it mixes as it runs? So if there isn't a rule of thumb, does everybody just guess - or do whatever seems to work for them?

20 hours a day @ 1400 rpms (9 gpm)
4 hours a day @ 2400 rpms (41 gpm)
I just did the math and that means I turnover my pool 1.6 times a day. I've never had algae because I keep up my chlorine, and I've never noticed any cloudiness or anything (even at night with the lights on) that would tell me I need to be filtering more often. Hope that helps.
Interesting, that's helpful to know that works well for you - I guess I could see how having water always moving is naturally resistant to undesired growth with chlorine constantly mixing around over surface areas, then a few hours of aggressive swirling.
 
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mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
44,353
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Want to mention I do have the IC40
Sorry - I missed that. So your main reason to run the pump is to create your chlorine. The minimum RPM is that what is needed to close the flow switch for the SWCG.

Again, after what is needed to create your chlorine, the only real reason to run the pump is to skim the surface. The chlorine disperses in the water column rapidly.
having water always moving is naturally resistant to undesired growth with chlorine constantly mixing around over surface areas.
That is not what prevents algae. Maintaining your FC/CYA ratio does.
 

Newdude

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 16, 2019
11,188
NY
I assume you're implying you need less mixing with a SWG because it mixes as it runs
Yeah. With a 2X pool volume system most need to run about 12 hrs a day to produce enough chlorine in the warm months so those pools are well mixed by default.
So if there isn't a rule of thumb, does everybody just guess - or do whatever seems to work for them
Good ole trial and error. Make too much FC and lower the pump or SWG runtime. Then it’s too little. Then it gets fine tuned some more until you get your baseline. Then 4 weeks later the demand changes with the UV demand +\- from the sun angle. Eventually you’ll just know your 4 or so adjustments for the season and wait for the weekly tests to tell you it’s time to go to the next progression.

I ran 24/7 so it was easier to only have to adjust SWG run time %. I’d start at 20% in the early season, then bump to 40, 60, and then bump down accordingly as the season winded down.
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I ran 24/7 so it was easier to only have to adjust SWG run time %. I’d start at 20% in the early season, then bump to 40, 60, and then bump down accordingly as the season winded down.
Oh I really like the sound of that, nice and simple to just run the pump and adjust the SWG! Does intellicenter have a setting that whenever the heater turns on it can increase the RPMs to its minimum?
 
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mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
44,353
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
On the RPM increase for Heat, this is for the EasyTouch, so you will have to research for the Intellicenter.
MENU ▼ SETTINGS ▼ INTELLIFLO PUMP # 1
Choose Speeds.
Select Circuit Number.
Set RPM.
Move to circuit names and assign the circuit name as Heater, Pool Heater or Spa Heater as appropriate.

You would then need to Schedule, or use an Egg Timer and manually turn on, the Circuit Name tied to your Heater.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
44,353
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Also, those GPM numbers you state are really general. Just raise your RPM to the level the Flow light on the IC goes green, then add 100 rpm. That will be your POOL mode RPM. Same for the Heater.
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Also, those GPM numbers you state are really general. Just raise your RPM to the level the Flow light on the IC goes green, then add 100 rpm. That will be your POOL mode RPM. Same for the Heater.
Exactly what I was looking for, perfect, thank you!! This is going to be a great system once it's all set up, wow I'm loving how automated that will be. Between intellicenter and the Pool Math app, this seems like it will be a lot easier than the pool I grew up with.
 
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matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Well the screen footer and equipment pad was poured on Tuesday. Looks fine I guess, it will be covered up with pavers except the pad.

My issue is we're really sticking with the "working one day or less per week" trend since mid December and I'm really getting tired of constant delays. My estimate signed with the contract said it would be done and ready for pebble tec no later than THIS MONDAY Feb 8th - which means everything else is finished including screen, pavers, electric. My contract actually says they are required to do it within 90 working days at a maximum - which is the third week of April (with me assuming 2 full weeks for the holidays). But of course there are enough exceptions in that clause for it to be legally meaningless as well. When we broke ground in November, I was verbally told 8-12 weeks including the holidays to have water in the pool. 12 weeks is Feb 15th...

I don't know whether to start pestering them but that might just tick them off and at best have them them throw 3rd rate subcontractors on my job, so I'm trying to just continue to wait it out patiently and ask for updates every so often. I've already contacted them SEVERAL times to get guys out and they'll come work for a day and then I don't see them again until the next week or longer. Almost feels like they're dragging me along while they work on other jobs simultaneously - so instead of the first in order pools getting done quick and everyone being in line, it feels as if they're doing a TINY bit of work on ALL the pools so NONE get done on time. We started looking in April, signed in July, broke ground Nov - we're probably going to finish in April which makes this a 12 month process. I have friends who built homes faster!

Do I sound like I'm getting frustrated? Is that coming across lol!? Anyone in Tampa having a similar experience and have any luck getting them to stop dragging their feet taking advantage of the pool boom to sign up new builds at higher rates - at the cost of dragging existing customers?!

 
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RDFBocephus

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2020
71
Tampa
Pool Size
8500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Being in the Tampa Bay area as well I can echo the sentiments regarding the gaps in between work being done. Our build is so far behind that the permit window is up at the beginning of next month. In regards to getting work done I’m on the fence as well to complain about it, and have the PB send out the less capable crew just to get something done.

Overall I think the process is just taking way too long, and not as advertised when we under contract almost six and a half months ago.
 

Dschnell

Active member
Feb 1, 2021
39
Tampa, Florida
We are about to start a renovation and are located in Tampa Bay also (Land O Lakes). I found your thread because we also picked the Masisosar tile! I'm eager to see your pool complete! Although it seems like the tile for ours, once ordered, will take 2 weeks out of Dallas and no permits are needed for a tile/resurface so I guess there's a chance we might possibly be done before yours. Between the drain, demo of the old surface/tile, new tile and resurface our guy says 3-7 days. I remember our initial pool build though and there were long stretches of time when nothing happened. So frustrating! I have a friend who is in the same position.

We are going with the WetEdge Signature Matrix Tahoe, 6x6 Masisosar around the waterline (these are in stock locally) and Masisosar 1x2s on our raised round planter (these have to be ordered out of Dallas and take 2 weeks so they would be they hold up).

If your pool has gotten tile I'd love to see an updated picture!
 
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matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I was going to wait to post photos until the tile was more complete but I'll go ahead and share a quick update!

We have finally made some progress and I think it will move steadily at least until they finish coping/tile. Pavers are supposedly going to be delivered next week and then they will schedule that install - which will also be when they tear the footer forms out so I can finally run irrigation around our screen (need to fix 4 of our 6 zones because of the way the pipes ran and have to completely redo two and half of a third zone).

The delays between work is what drives me crazy because that's ultimately what is taking 90% of the time of this build, working 1 day maybe 2 and then a week or two between subs - then one of the subs has to stop because they're waiting on material so they go work on another job and the material shows up but we're bumped behind another pool now etc...

But it IS turning out really nicely - I don't know what I was expecting but I'm surprised how they were able to cut the coping so exact, really happy with how the tiles are turning out too. I love the glaze and colors - when light hits it you get the shine and tons of color variation is brought out as the sun sets - but we still have the durability of porcelain which puts me at ease.

Tile Close Up


Front View


Side View


Sunshelf View


Spa View


Spa Coping Close - looks really tightly cut to me.
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
We are about to start a renovation and are located in Tampa Bay also (Land O Lakes). I found your thread because we also picked the Masisosar tile! I'm eager to see your pool complete! Although it seems like the tile for ours, once ordered, will take 2 weeks out of Dallas and no permits are needed for a tile/resurface so I guess there's a chance we might possibly be done before yours. Between the drain, demo of the old surface/tile, new tile and resurface our guy says 3-7 days. I remember our initial pool build though and there were long stretches of time when nothing happened. So frustrating! I have a friend who is in the same position.

We are going with the WetEdge Signature Matrix Tahoe, 6x6 Masisosar around the waterline (these are in stock locally) and Masisosar 1x2s on our raised round planter (these have to be ordered out of Dallas and take 2 weeks so they would be they hold up).

If your pool has gotten tile I'd love to see an updated picture!
Also, I think that's going to look awesome. From what I can tell, the only difference between Cadet Blue and Tahoe is blue pebbles instead of black - our neighbors have the Tahoe and it looks really nice. I think this tile will go really well with those greys/browns/blues in both Tahoe and Cadet Blue. If you're done in a week I'll admit to being a little jealous. Good luck!
 

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