PAVERS DONE - Tampa, FL - Pool/Spa

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Strange update: The project manager came out to check on the work and double check the measurements. He showed me the pool is a foot and a half longer than we contracted for - just under 31' long. Here's what happened: We originally got a quote to do my design and it ended up at 425sqft. We discovered we could save several thousand by going under 400sqft because of an extra $2k access charge for a larger pool with only 8ft access, as well as some other nonsense surcharge. Evidently, they gave the excavator the original plan and no one noticed. So we got what we wanted for free apparently.

Project manager was pretty upset because obviously it could have been bad if it had gone in the other direction (an intentional preferred change that didn't get used) - not sure how it happened but he said if we're fine with it then it's good with them. My tape measure broke before they did gunite and I hadn't replaced it yet. So I just went and double checked the measurements, this is what we have:


Other updates: I watered the gunite like a good pool owner for 10 days although it has rained for the past several so it's gotten water for a full 2 weeks. They took the forms off and got rid of the excess dirt and grass, looks like they're prepping for plumbing and he said they have the coping and tile at the office ready to install when it's time:
 

Nikilyn

Bronze Supporter
Sep 3, 2018
1,124
Gilbert, AZ
Pool Size
17000
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Great to see progress! Were you fascinated with how they 'shot' the gunnite? Hubby just stood there watching them ALL day. I went out and asked and he said it's just fascinating.
I plan on watching all day 😁. I watched a large portion of excavation too. The other trades aren’t as exciting. I plan on watching plaster and a bit of tile also. When we built our first pool we couldn’t be home for shotcrete and we were both disappointed. I don’t plan on having prior arrangements this time 😊.
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Great to see progress! Were you fascinated with how they 'shot' the gunnite? Hubby just stood there watching them ALL day. I went out and asked and he said it's just fascinating.
I plan on watching all day 😁. I watched a large portion of excavation too. The other trades aren’t as exciting. I plan on watching plaster and a bit of tile also. When we built our first pool we couldn’t be home for shotcrete and we were both disappointed. I don’t plan on having prior arrangements this time 😊.
Yea it was very interesting. Excavation/rebar/gunite were all fun to watch just because they were so different than most skilled labor you see. I work from home so I sorta walked by every half hour or so to check on it throughout the day. I've seen and done enough tile that I'm sure that part won't be as exciting until it's actually done lol but the pebble plaster might be interesting to watch troweled.

I took 6 inches off my sunshelf to get under the next price increase at 600 square feet...so it's officially 599 sq ft but I plan on asking the PM to put those 6 inches back in "accidentally," LOL. :)
Isn't that so strange? I'm not sure what the thought process is, maybe they think if the pool is bigger, the person's home/budget is probably larger and thus will be less likely to balk and price shop? Kind of like buying a new car where the base is affordable with a relatively thin profit margin but the options are exorbitant and jack up the price of a typical car by over 50%. Similarly, it was always funny to see the "base price" of our package at $40k and then see them somehow more than double that by the end of the quote. Each of the companies we spoke to had their own little pricing games which is why it was so helpful to have already decided on the design and equipment myself before really getting comparison quotes.

I guess I don't care how they itemize it when you're comparing the final numbers... BUT if you do see something itemized where you can save a few grand on some tiny thing, it's definitely worth it lol I tried to do it with all sorts of other things too - like the rip off pricing on intellicenter, the heater, the filter, the lights, and the pumps which were marked up over cost by a cumulative almost $10k - but they ultimately wouldn't allow me to do it.
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
PLUMBING EXPERTS Appreciated!!
  1. Is it normal for it to not even be a foot deep? We have super soft ground and they used a bobcat so I don't get why they'd only go 12" - seems like 18-24" would be so much better and hardly any more work? All this look good?

For the gossip part, can I just say this is SLOWWW progress. After the project manager came on December 17th, we had no one here until January 6th - over 3 weeks between any actual work getting done! I get taking a week for Christmas off but come on. They were here for that one day Jan 6th and did the plumbing and forms for the footer.

I immediately noticed the footer was done 1ft too far left which would only give us 3ft of clearance between the fence and the screen vs the 4ft in the back so they're supposed to come back to fix it but have not done anything since Jan 6th. What happened is they measured off the pool which was made too large - if they had measured off the house it would have been in the correct spot. I'm willing to see things happen slowly but no progress at all is extremely frustrating. We were told 8-12 weeks from breaking ground including the holidays, but they will have wasted almost 4 full weeks now and only 4 weeks left to make that 12 week timeline - so I have a hard time believing they'll be done by Feb 15th.

For what it's worth, each crew that HAS showed up seem like real pros. Mostly middle aged guys, well spoken, seemed like they really knew what they were doing and all the work looked neat.
 
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JayRi

Bronze Supporter
May 13, 2020
89
Tampa, FL (Specifically Apollo Beach)
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Hey Matthew I’ll chime in with the little I know. My plumbing is about 15” deep.
If you have an overflow, in my case they ran a line into the pool. Plumbed it as if it was a return, but it goes outside the screen and just sticks out of the ground. It’s a 2” pvc with a cap that has a few holes drilled into it.
The pipes sticking out of the ground will all get tied together for the plumbing inspection. They will pressurize it, once it passes they will cut down the pump/drain lines. In my case I have 6 additional lines, 2 for spa. Since I have 2 separate areas with spa Jets. No real spa. One for the pool returns. One for the in floor system. One for the skimmer return, then I had them run an extra line for future use. That one is capped under the pavers.
The lights in my pool are all ran in gray pvc conduit. They come up near the the plumbing lines and go into a small junction box that goes to the transformer.
The actuators are just fancy ball valves. They go in place of the valves. They can adjust how Much water you want to pass through. I’ll post a picture of my equipment pad in case it might help. I have an actuator valve on the drain line. That way I can control how much suction I want from the skimmer or main drain. There is another on the return side, that way I can send all the water to the spa returns.
I hear you on the delays. I had some issues and am still struggling. Go back to our private message about my pool builder. Well it looks like they tried to take on way too much work and have gotten into a jam. Luckily my pool is completed it I have had the paver company back 2 times due to uneven pavers. Then there was a leak, so they had to lift a bunch of pavers to fix it. Now the paver company has to come back to fix them and replace a bunch of broken pavers.
I was lucky with my build but some others aren’t and are getting long delays. I will warn anyone in the Tampa area, if you’re looking at a Pool company do your research. Check how many permits they have open. My builder currently has 50 open permits and I don’t know how long they will take to finish.
Jason
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Hey Matthew I’ll chime in with the little I know. My plumbing is about 15” deep.
If you have an overflow, in my case they ran a line into the pool. Plumbed it as if it was a return, but it goes outside the screen and just sticks out of the ground. It’s a 2” pvc with a cap that has a few holes drilled into it.
The pipes sticking out of the ground will all get tied together for the plumbing inspection. They will pressurize it, once it passes they will cut down the pump/drain lines. In my case I have 6 additional lines, 2 for spa. Since I have 2 separate areas with spa Jets. No real spa. One for the pool returns. One for the in floor system. One for the skimmer return, then I had them run an extra line for future use. That one is capped under the pavers.
The lights in my pool are all ran in gray pvc conduit. They come up near the the plumbing lines and go into a small junction box that goes to the transformer.
The actuators are just fancy ball valves. They go in place of the valves. They can adjust how Much water you want to pass through. I’ll post a picture of my equipment pad in case it might help. I have an actuator valve on the drain line. That way I can control how much suction I want from the skimmer or main drain. There is another on the return side, that way I can send all the water to the spa returns.
I hear you on the delays. I had some issues and am still struggling. Go back to our private message about my pool builder. Well it looks like they tried to take on way too much work and have gotten into a jam. Luckily my pool is completed it I have had the paver company back 2 times due to uneven pavers. Then there was a leak, so they had to lift a bunch of pavers to fix it. Now the paver company has to come back to fix them and replace a bunch of broken pavers.
I was lucky with my build but some others aren’t and are getting long delays. I will warn anyone in the Tampa area, if you’re looking at a Pool company do your research. Check how many permits they have open. My builder currently has 50 open permits and I don’t know how long they will take to finish.
Jason
I do have an overflow, didn't occur to me that's how it would work - makes sense. The pressurization makes complete sense too, that didn't occur to me - I was so confused trying to figure out why it would be connected that way. The electricians are actually here today running the conduit and junction box for the lights!

Do the intellivalves allow you to set like 10% 20% etc in the app or is it just two pre-set settings?

Best of luck with getting that resolved - your project turned out phenomenal so hopefully its a simple fix to an otherwise great experience. Definitely feel free to share any photos and advice especially since you have the same intellicenter/intelliflo combo!
 
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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,068
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Do the intellivalves allow you to set like 10% 20% etc in the app or is it just two pre-set settings?

The IntelliValve is not Intelli. Pentair says Intelli will be coming someday. Until Someday the actuator works the same as all other non-Intelli actuators with two pre-set settings that it will move between.
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The IntelliValve is not Intelli. Pentair says Intelli will be coming someday. Until Someday the actuator works the same as all other non-Intelli actuators with two pre-set settings that it will move between.
Thanks, I see. Seems like it wouldn't be that complicated to program that - wonder why it's taking so long.

So if I have the intellicenter ips5 - am I understanding correctly that I only have room for pool/spa mode actuators plus 2 additional? I only have 1 additional, so I could add a 2nd if I want to control the bubbler/waterfall independently?
 
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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,068
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You use two actuators to control your POOL/SPA SUCTION and POOL/SPA RETURN and you have two other valve actuators for water features in the PS versions. If you want to control more actuators then you add the valve expansion card to control another 6 actuators.
 

JayRi

Bronze Supporter
May 13, 2020
89
Tampa, FL (Specifically Apollo Beach)
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I was able to find the permits for my pool in the system, but I can't seem to search by the name of the pool company or their license number. Mind sending me the link you used for that? I have the license numbers they operate under, but I can't see their individual projects and I'm very curious to see how their projects are progressing...

Best of luck with getting that resolved - your project turned out phenomenal so hopefully its a simple fix to an otherwise great experience. Definitely feel free to share any photos and advice especially since you have the same intellicenter/intelliflo combo!
This is the link to the page, just scroll down to where is say's contractor information. Select Permit activity and eneter the license number.
I'm supposed to get pavers tomorrow and they're scheduled to come on Monday. Let's see if it happens.
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
This is the link to the page, just scroll down to where is say's contractor information. Select Permit activity and eneter the license number.
I'm supposed to get pavers tomorrow and they're scheduled to come on Monday. Let's see if it happens.
80 open pools! 66 under construction, 4 in permitting now, 9 in some kind of pre-build stage, 1 with a "stop" order. Looks like about 15-20 are builder pools (based on the cluster of repeated road names in a new neighborhood), so they have a solid 40-50 custom pools going. So 1 out of 8 pools pulled in September are done, 6 out of 9 pools pulled in August, 9 out of 11 from July, 9 out of 10 from June, and everything before that is done. Mine is shown as pulled in September (signed in July) with only a half dozen unfinished before September, so we should be in the line here soon. Interesting to see, thanks for the tip. Overall, I feel like this means they're chugging along, although it's clear they're lagging a little behind demand. Encouraging overall I think?
 

TampaKathy

Gold Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
478
Tampa, FL
I'm probably one of the 4 in permitting :) I think I'll be more surprise if they actually finish in 12 weeks than not when mine starts, lol. Seems like pools take forever. Yeah, when I was in my salesperson's office, he showed me the calendar and there are a lot of home builder pools on the schedule.
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Actuator and Plumbing Explanation:

Here are the new diagrams I was given for the plumbing.



This leads me to believe this is what we have physically:


This clarifies everything except a couple things I don't understand:
  • Why does this second pump output connect to BP (bypass) along with the F (bubbler) and SD (sheer descent)? What's the purpose of the bypass - to relieve the pressure on the bubbler and sheer descent or something?
  • There's an intellivalve pointing at either F (bubbler) or at the 3 way valve straight from that feature pump. What would be the purpose of the intellivalve here if it can only do two settings?
    • Seems like I need two actuators - one above the bubbler one above the sheer descent, right? Then the two settings would be "on" and "off" for each? What's the logic for only having one here?
  • MasterTemp installation guide says to install a bypass valve when using a pump over 2hp. Don't see it on the chart - worth bringing up to them or do it myself later? Install a check valve at the output of the heater before the bypass T meets it or no? How open would I have this? Ideally it would be more open when using the spa and not open at all in pool mode since it would be low RPM and thus low flow, right?
 
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matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Realized WS in the photo above is the two wall suctions in the pool, whereas the WS in the spa is tied to the spa main drain. Apparently every suction now requires two sources 3ft apart to prevent drowning. Also, looks like the way they plumbed my blower is it will be next to the pump injecting air into the J (spa jets), then there's a circle of pipes above each of the jets with a small release valve built into the coping that will allow air through to control the amount of air in the jets. I also read I could install a valve in a T between the blower and the J pipe if I want to release more pressure behind the house (quieter than the valve at the spa coping).
 
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Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
23,110
Bedford, TX
Matt,

You do not need a check valve between the heater and a SWCG... You would need a check valve between the heater and a tab feeder.. It has nothing to do with chlorine, but the acid that tablets contain can leak back into the heater and destroy it.

In my mind a heater by-pass makes sense, but it is not "required." You have VS pumps that are not going to be running at full speed all the time.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

matthewsunshineflorida

Gold Supporter
Sep 28, 2018
137
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
12500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Matt,

You do not need a check valve between the heater and a SWCG... You would need a check valve between the heater and a tab feeder.. It has nothing to do with chlorine, but the acid that tablets contain can leak back into the heater and destroy it.

In my mind a heater by-pass makes sense, but it is not "required." You have VS pumps that are not going to be running at full speed all the time.

Thanks,

Jim R.
That does make sense to me - now that I see it the instructions do mention a chlorine feeder specifically, whoops!

So the heater bypass, I'm thinking when I'm using the pool mode there's no way I'm ever going near the 120gpm because I'm just running a few returns and the features on a separate pump. My concern is when I'm in the spa, would I ever use the pump full blast and go over its rated gpm?
 
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