Owner/Builder pool in Phoenix (Phase: Start-up!)

[Winter247]

Thread updated: 8/2/2023
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Okay, I've been cruising this site for the last 6 months trying to learn as much as possible. I've come across several build threads and individuals that have been SUPER helpful! So in the spirit of this forum I will do my best to keep this thread updated as I progress through my build process. I was hoping to have this started in Jan, but we ran into a rather large hiccup right out of the gate. The location of our overhead powerlines prohibited us from doing a pool anywhere near where we had anticipated. So we did some research, hired a few subs and now we no longer have overhead powerlines. We re-routed new buried lines (away from the pool area) and upgraded our service panel to accommodate the extra pool equipment. It took a few months, but here we are... ready to get started!

I want a modern looking play pool that enhances the yard and creates a relaxing environment for the wife and I... but will ultimately be used for entertaining our 2 littles ones. (Currently 1 and 6 years old). Here's what I've got so far:

Pool Size: 19' x 30'
Depth: 3.6' - 5' - 4'
Area: 538 sqft
Perimeter: 98'
Volume: 14,680 gal
Baja: 7' x 14' , 14" depth
Feature: 4' sheer descent
Spa Size: 7' x 7'
Spa Depth: 3.6'
Spa Volume: 663 gal
Raised: 18"
Spillway: 4'
Jets: 8

Pool Equipment:
Pump: Hayward Tristar 950 VSP 2.7hp (x2, one for the sheer descent)
Filter: Hayward Cartridge 525
Heater: Hayward H Series 400k BTU
Salt System: Tcell940 (Included with automation)
Spa Blower: 2 HP Silencer Blower
Automation: Hayward Omni PL
Lights: Hayward ColorLogic 320 LEDs (5)

Skimmer: A&A Venturi (2 plumed on separate lines w/ separate valves)
Water Leveler: 10" AquaStar
Drain: A&A Dual AVSC pebble top
Spa Drain: A&A Single AVSC pebble top
Leaf Trap: A&A LeafVac
In-Floor Cleaning Valve: A&A Wave
In-Floor Heads: A&A Venturi

Pre Filter: WaterCo Multi-Cyclone Pre-Filter (x2, one for the sheer descent)

----------------
EQ Pad:
- 10' x 3'
- Automation panel
- A/C receptacle
- hose bib
- Running both soft and hard water to the autofill so I have the option.
----------------
Decking: Artistic Pavers DesertLock Cool White. Also Turf Hub Natural Blend Pro artificial turf for southern half.
Coping: Artistic Pavers DesertLock Cool White bullnose
Tile: Azure Black "Nightfall" Series
Finish: Stonescapes Mini Tropics Blue with Touch of Glass or PebbleTec Slate Blue with Shimmering Sea

Additional:
- 2 Alumawood Graphite Lattice Pergolas
- BBQ grill island (DIY frame)
- Raised planter (w/ 4 ft sheer descent)
- Concrete booth w/ fire table

I think that's it for now. I'll keep editing and updating as I go. The first draft of plans and concepts are attached. Feel free to hit me with ideas, suggestions, ridicule or mockery... I'm open and willing to hear it!

 

[GrandLSU]

Very nice design! You mentioned "Decking: Probably grey acrylic lace (Not 100% sold on it yet. Would prefer travertine or stone, but need good slip/heat resistance for the kids)." Have you considered white quartzite? It is a natural stone that is beautiful, and that is extraordinarily heat resistant (because it is very white) and extraordinarily slip resistant (the quartzite tile and coping that's used for pools has a highly textured finish, that I would say has a slip resistance that is at least equal to, and probably better than just about every other type of decking). Quartzite is also a very hard stone (much harder than travertine for example) that has a high resistance to chemical and salt degradation.

I recently had white quartzite installed as the decking and coping with my pool build, and I love it. It's pricey, but I think it's pretty much the perfect pool decking material.

 

[bertschb]

You will get some pushback soon from members who don't like the A&A in floor cleaning systems (IFCS). Don't let that deter you. I have an IFCS and it works fantastic. I run my cleaning cycle at 2,600rpm for 90 minutes each day and my pool is spotless. The IFCS is also great for mixing chemicals and keeping the water a constant temperature throughout the water column. I just want to mention this now before you see multiple replies from people who don't share my enthusiasm.

 

[Newdude]

I just want to mention this now before you see multiple replies from people who don't share my enthusiasm.

We wholeheartedly support full disclosure and going in with your eyes wide open. The good, the bad and the ugly. If one gets their best pool for them, we high five them.

 

[mknauss]

Tie your autofill to your whole house water softener. If you do not have one, consider it or install a softener for the pool water. Makes management of your pool water chemistry a lot easier. And eliminates having to drain the pool every 18-24 months.

 

[proavia]

You want a SWG that is at least 2x the pool volume. Being in Phoenix, even larger would be best.
The Aquarite T15 is rated at 40,000 gallon.
The Aquarite T3 is rated at 15,000 gallon.

And seriously consider the water softener hook up for the autofill, as @mknauss suggests.

 

[bertschb]

And seriously consider the water softener hook up for the autofill, as @mknauss suggests.

^^^ This ^^^

 

[thewolf56]

Make sure you and your designer (and your subs) are on the same page when it comes to defining water depth.

Do you need a separate sub panel for Hayward automation? For the Pentair Intellicenter, the subpanel and automation are integrated, so double-check if that is the case there as well.

None of your equipment seems to clash between Hayward automation. Another vote for upgrading your salt cell to double the size of your pool. For your LED sheer, check out CMP.

Another vote for hooking up your auto-fill to soft water. Apparently, I was one of the first people to talk to my consultant about wanting that and after thinking about it, he thought it was a really good idea also. My water is hard!!! (over 30 grains) Much harder than when I lived in Phoenix, but as fast as our pools will evaporate, that Calcium will build up fast in your pool.

One other suggestion would be a multi-cyclone pre-filter. I haven't really read a bad review of them, but our environment seems to suited for its intended function.

Good luck!

 

[bertschb]

One other suggestion would be a multi-cyclone pre-filter. I haven't really read a bad review of them, but our environment seems to suited for its intended function.

Good luck!

^^^ This too! ^^^

 

[Winter247]

Very nice design! You mentioned "Decking: Probably grey acrylic lace (Not 100% sold on it yet. Would prefer travertine or stone, but need good slip/heat resistance for the kids)." Have you considered white quartzite? It is a natural stone that is beautiful, and that is extraordinarily heat resistant (because it is very white) and extraordinarily slip resistant (the quartzite tile and coping that's used for pools has a highly textured finish, that I would say has a slip resistance that is at least equal to, and probably better than just about every other type of decking). Quartzite is also a very hard stone (much harder than travertine for example) that has a high resistance to chemical and salt degradation.

I recently had white quartzite installed as the decking and coping with my pool build, and I love it. It's pricey, but I think it's pretty much the perfect pool decking material.

Thanks, I'll look into it! I would certainly prefer a stone deck look, but gotta sell the wife on safety first.

 

[Winter247]

You will get some pushback soon from members who don't like the A&A in floor cleaning systems (IFCS). Don't let that deter you. I have an IFCS and it works fantastic. I run my cleaning cycle at 2,600rpm for 90 minutes each day and my pool is spotless. The IFCS is also great for mixing chemicals and keeping the water a constant temperature throughout the water column. I just want to mention this now before you see multiple replies from people who don't share my enthusiasm.

Yeah I've seen both perspectives in other threads. From what I gather, it seems like if the IFCS works... it works great. I love the idea of less maintenance in every area possible, so currently I feel like it's worth a shot. We'll see as the process moves along!

 

[Winter247]

Make sure you and your designer (and your subs) are on the same page when it comes to defining water depth.

Do you need a separate sub panel for Hayward automation? For the Pentair Intellicenter, the subpanel and automation are integrated, so double-check if that is the case there as well.

None of your equipment seems to clash between Hayward automation. Another vote for upgrading your salt cell to double the size of your pool. For your LED sheer, check out CMP.

Another vote for hooking up your auto-fill to soft water. Apparently, I was one of the first people to talk to my consultant about wanting that and after thinking about it, he thought it was a really good idea also. My water is hard!!! (over 30 grains) Much harder than when I lived in Phoenix, but as fast as our pools will evaporate, that Calcium will build up fast in your pool.

One other suggestion would be a multi-cyclone pre-filter. I haven't really read a bad review of them, but our environment seems to suited for its intended function.

Good luck!

Thanks for the solid tips! I made sure the designer and I were on the same page for sure, just gotta keep that up with the subs here on out.

Okay, after some more research it appears the Hayward OmniLogic Automation does come with a sub panel. I just noticed several builds where people added a sub-panel and had reasons they were glad they did. I'll make sure the Hayward automation panel can support everything I need and then possible do away with the "additional sub panel".

So... the soft water issue. I WANT soft water for the whole house, but that seems tricky. Currently where the water comes into the house (older 1960's block home) is cramped into a tight space with the water heater. There's no room to add tanks or any additional equipment in there. Maybe I need to have someone come out and take a look, they may know something I don't. Or maybe getting it just for the pool equipment would still be worth it? We definitely have hard water too. I don't have a measurement, but I'm already fighting calcium build up on plenty of other things. Yeah... moving this to the top of the research list! Thanks @proavia, @bertschb , @mknauss and @thewolf56 for the insight!

Just checked out the multi-cyclone pre-filter and I think I love it! lol... added to the list!

 

[Winter247]

You want a SWG that is at least 2x the pool volume. Being in Phoenix, even larger would be best.
The Aquarite T15 is rated at 40,000 gallon.
The Aquarite T3 is rated at 15,000 gallon.

And seriously consider the water softener hook up for the autofill, as @mknauss suggests.

Okay, will do. Larger salt cell check! Thanks

 

[Nikilyn]

I wish we had gotten an IFCS this time. I miss it. It was an added expense we decided to cut but wish we hadn’t, especially during monsoons.
We have a cyclone and really glad we do. It’s not that expensive, at least not doing it o/b like we did.
I need to get our auto fill tied to our water softener. Our CH rises so fast.
We have acrylic lace and I love it. It’s so much cooler than travertine and way less slippery. I’ve never liked being at pools with travertine. I feel like I’m going to slip and burn my feet. We have ocean blue marble around our spa that you can see in my pic. It is beautiful! I had thought it would have been nice to have it everywhere if we could have afforded it. Nope! It’s hot and slippery. Glad we have cool deck.

 

[kimkats]

I am SO in on this one!!! I can really see you have been doing some reading-good swim lane, depths good for swimming, etc.

Make sure there is a hose bib and light by the equipment. You will thank me me if you have to out there in the dark of the night. The hose bib is very helpful for cleaning the filter and such.

Make sure there are unions on both sides of each piece of equipment.

An overflow grate/line is also helpful during big rains.

Kim

 

[Winter247]

Based on previous comments, I've got multiple plumbers coming this week to bid on adding a water softener for the house/pool. Should be interesting though because I can't find a loop anywhere for them to tie into. The house was built in 1961 and has been completely remodeled. If there is a loop.... its hidden in a wall. The water heater is in a closet in the laundry room, so obviously water comes in there. Thing is though, I'm not sure if the hose bib in the back yard is AFTER that section of the water line. It's on the complete opposite side of the house and might be it's own run. My concern is that I won't be able to do soft water for both the house and the pool... or that I'll need 2 systems. Hopefully I'm just missing something. Should find out this week.

Does anyone have a water softener just for their pool? If so, what size?

Also, I've had a few contractors get me estimates for extending my pavers for the BBQ island area and adding some concrete steps. Wow... the price range is wild. It's a 15 x 15 section of standard pavers with a concrete L slab for the grill and 5 or 6 2x2 steps leading towards the pool area. Quotes have come back ranging from $2000 - $6500.... that's quite the difference! Makes me very curious what kind of wide price range I'll be getting for other trades throughout this process.

 

[bertschb]

Does anyone have a water softener just for their pool? If so, what size?

I have a whole home water softener but it would have been difficult to tie into my pool auto fill system. Instead, I use the model in the link below. A larger model would allow me to go longer between re-gens but I already had this one for my RV. It works fine.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SQFXLNE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[proavia]

A whole house water softener will probably need to be plumbed in near where water enters your house from the city meter. There should be a shutoff valve mounted on/near the house in the front yard. Chances are there is no "soft water loop" in a house built in the 60's. If a softterner is plumbed in at that point (softener can be located elsewhere - possible in garage - and piping run from/to house entry point). All interior plumbing and all exterior hose bibs would then be softened water. Usually, any water used for irrigation is tee'd off the main line before the lines going to the softener.

 

[Winter247]

I have a whole home water softener but it would have been difficult to tie into my pool auto fill system. Instead, I use the model in the link below. A larger model would allow me to go longer between re-gens but I already had this one for my RV. It works fine.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SQFXLNE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hmmm... that's interesting. Do you have that permanently connected to your auto-fill? How often do you have to regen it or do any kind of maintenance?

 

[Winter247]

A whole house water softener will probably need to be plumbed in near where water enters your house from the city meter. There should be a shutoff valve mounted on/near the house in the front yard. Chances are there is no "soft water loop" in a house built in the 60's. If a softterner is plumbed in at that point (softener can be located elsewhere - possible in garage - and piping run from/to house entry point). All interior plumbing and all exterior hose bibs would then be softened water. Usually, any water used for irrigation is tee'd off the main line before the lines going to the softener.

Yeah, I'm sure mine is tee'd off. Unfortunately there is no shut off near the house. The only shut off is near the street. I couldn't even tell you the general area the main water line enters the foundation. So I'll likely have to do some kind of separate system. Unless they can do some kind of long run to the softener and back?? That might be insane though. Lol. Well I have one plumber here tomorrow and one on Wednesday so I should have a better idea then.