Overwhelmed Amateur Pool Chemist

robinsob75

New member
Dec 21, 2020
3
Orlando, Florida
Pool Size
21598
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Truclear / Ei
Hello TPF friends: I am in need of advice. Forgive the long email; I am trying to include more rather than less information. I own a relatively new 21,598 gallon rectangular Gunite pool in central Florida with Jandy Truclear SWG. We use an electric heat pump in Florida "winters." Construction completed and start up occurred in October/November 2020. I have been maintaining the pool myself. I would like to continue to do so. I brush and vacuuming is done with a zodiac MX8. I use a Taylor FAS-DPD (salt) test kit. I also frequently use Aqua check 7 test strips, for quick pre-work chlorine gut check tests. I have read everything I can get my hands on regarding pool chemistry, here and elsewhere. I have tried to be meticulous, but there have been chemistry and balancing problems, and more so than I expected. Was tracking all of my data, but had a recent iPhone wipe and lost my pool math information. However, I kept on with testing and have just restarted the pool math tracking, but only following the newest problems.

I had trouble maintaining chlorine levels, roughly 3 months ago. Pool construction company said it was phosphates or nitrates. They added phosphate remover. I ran the SWG for 16 hours a day at 80 to 100%. Problems sustaining free chlorine persisted. Took a sample to pinch a penny, who said there were zero phosphates and nitrates weren't a problem. I followed their advice to shock the pool using five small bags of Suncoast Shock for Vinyl & Concrete Pools, 1 Lb. Everything was fine for a while, but sustained free chlorine problems returned (i.e. FC fell off). This coincided with me noticing that the Jandy true clear salt cell was leaking and defective. It was leaking from the top, and I made a warranty claim, after reviewing threads here which showed this was not rare and requires replacement. By the time the pool warranty company came out to replace the salt cell (2 days ago), the Jandy "brain" (power unit) was displaying "check cell." The cell was not chlorinating. I tested and found zero free chlorine in the pool. I also noticed a small amount of green algae beginning to grow in the crevices of the steps and corner of the pool, but not a significant amount. Still, it freaked me out. I have had almost crystal clear water throughout.

When the pool warranty company came to replace the salt cell, they did not explain to me what was wrong with the "brain" but said that the leaking from the top of the cell was a known defect and they had been replacing many such units. I told them about the problems sustaining chlorine levels, and they retorted that it was not the salt water generator cell, but a problem with my chemistry that they would test and confirm. They ran some tests, and although the two gentlemen did not show me the test strip, they remarked "Yep, nitrates."

In response, I turned back to these threads and TFP, rather than going to a pinch a penny or calling another service.

Yesterday evening, I brought my pH down to 7.2 and initiated what I considered to be a SLAM. I added 1090 ounces of 7.55% bleach (nine 121 oz. jugs). I brushed like a man possessed. The pool water was cloudy after brushing, and more so than usual because it was nighttime and the lights were on. I ran the pump continuously.

This morning, free chlorine was 0.4 to 0.5. Combined chlorine was 0.4.

Did I waste my time? Did I pour nine large jugs of bleach down the "drain"? Do I need to go back out and spend another sixty or seventy dollars on bleach, and repeat the process? How many times? The water is pretty clear, but free chlorine levels are low again. Help!

I would greatly appreciate any advice. I am almost at the point of throwing in the towel and hiring a pool service, because I really tried to educate myself and stay on top of this and yet I seem to be spending a lot of money on chemicals to chase perfect chemistry, even though this is new equipment and I was told there would not be big swings.

I know this is a lot, but I am particularly interested in any advice on continued SLAM'ing and whether there's light at the end of this tunnel.

I am including a link to my pool: PoolMath Logs

Thanks in advance.

Ben
 
Hi Ben. Nice name ☺️

I am not familiar with nitrites and whether that's nonsense like phosphates are. Others will soon be along to provide more detailed advice than I can right now, but wanted to tap out in my phone:

a) You will get through this, and you are right to not be running off to the pool store who will tinker around the edges.

b) Except for the FC and algae, your water is at a really good starting point.

c) Do you still have any of the jugs of chlorine available? Please can you find and tell us the date code that was on the bottles? Curious to know how fresh they were. The likely answer though is yes, your SLAM will need some M-for-maintain, which means adding lots more chlorine until it holds properly.

I'm sorry that your SWG failure got you into this situation. It's what they're supposed to help avoid!
 
Welcome to TFP.

You are off to a good start. The SLAM Process is a process to MAINTAIN your SLAM FC level for as long as necessary until you satisfy the three exit criteria for the SLAM Process. You are one day in to what is at least a few days or longer process depending on how much algae you have and how diligently you follow the process.

Follow the process step by step as described with no shortcuts. It always works. It is science.

Using 7% bleach for the SLAM Process is often not the most cost effective. See if you can find 10%-12% pool chlorinating liquid in your area.


Nitrates and phosphates are not the reason your FC drops. Algae is. Eradicate the algae with the SLAM Process you should be good.

I see you have PoolMath but have not logged any test results or chemical additions. It helps us help you if we can follow along through your PM Logs and provide commentary.
 
Robin! Welcome to the Forum from Sunny Orlando!

I thought I would comment on a few things.. it sounds like you are trying to implement the TFP protocols.. that's great. So trust the Taylor test more than the test strips.. There is too much variability in the test strips and they are easily contaminated by moisture. So there is no point in using them you will find.

Phosphates and Nitrates are chasing the wrong cause of FC drop. Those to chemicals are food for algae. sure if you get rid of the food you will decrease the algae but that won't get rid of them. Chlorine is the only way to kill the algae and bacteria as well. So ignore the "pool guys" recommendation.. they are remembering something from high school biology and trying to apply to your pool (and incorrectly by the way).

Exactly how much FC are you loosing per day? Do you know? You should do a FC test in the morning and then again in the evening to see how much it drops over the course of a day.. ALSO do the same at night. We have a name for that one its called Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. That will tell you how much chlorine you loose at night. If its high, its likely due to algae. Also in the lower states the sun is higher in the sky. Its not uncommon to burn through 5ppm FC a day just due to the sun and swimming in the summer. I reread your thread and you didn't report your CYA level? if that is low that can cause more chlorine loose. you should be following the SWG side of the FC/CYA Levels. Turn up or SWG or extend the run time to get it create enough FC to make it through the day. And there is NOT one SWG % set point that will do it. You will be adjusting the output to accommodate the conditions. It will be highest in the peak of summer and lowest in the dead of winter.. so you adjust the knob up and down to fit the season. It will take a season or to work out what is best for you pool.
Good luck
 
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Thanks, each of you, for responding with helpful information, recommendations, and support. I did not write to say thank you right away, mostly because I was preoccupied with getting the pool to "behave." I still am maintaining the pool myself, using the TPF method, and I appreciate the many helpful voices on this forum. All the best.
 
Ben, welcome! It looks like you are beginning to believe it's safe to put yourself into the hands of the folks on this site, who have almost all been "Ben." (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) Forget the pool store or any pool service professionals. In no time, you will be "the pool service professional," and the pool store is where you will go to buy a new "floatie." :giggle: The answers to enjoying a safe, easy to keep, and inexpensive pool are right here. Again, welcome aboard.
 
Hey there👋 Just catching up on this thread & your plight.
I hope the SLAM Process is going/went well.
I see in your linked poolmath log from your post but when I click on your poolmath logs button under your profile there’s no logs. Perhaps @Leebo can help get that sorted out /merged for you.
I am not sure what your swg is set to but for that unit with the size of your pool it will need to run at 100% for 12 hrs to produce 2.6 ppm fc/day. You can use poolmath effects of adding to play around with percentages & run times just select your swg in the menu. It’s a helpful starting point coupled with your testing.
The average loss of most pools is 2-4 ppm/day
Being as you are in sunny central florida yours may be more on the high side as mentioned above.
A cya of 70-80 can help mitigate this some.
With a cya of 70 your fc target is 5. FC/CYA Levels
Most of us here run a little higher than target especially since a swg can make us a little lax /lazy on testing daily.
You want wiggle room for that extra sunny day, heavy rains, higher bather load, equipment failure, etc.
Going to minimum on a regular basis is a risky game & can allow things to grow as you’re riding the line & there’s no room for error.
Also remember, your swg is designed to maintain your fc, not make it up from zero so give it a boost with liquid chlorine to get to target & then see if it can maintain. If not, bring it up again w/ lc & increase your run time or percentage until u get what u want. Make a note that “x% is for mid summer” or something like that - as mentioned above fc consumption is influenced by uv, water temp, usage etc. which changes with the seasons.
Feel free to ask away with any questions that arise - there’s always someone here willing to help 😊
 
Hey there👋 Just catching up on this thread & your plight.
I hope the SLAM Process is going/went well.
I see in your linked poolmath log from your post but when I click on your poolmath logs button under your profile there’s no logs. Perhaps @Leebo can help get that sorted out /merged for you.
I am not sure what your swg is set to but for that unit with the size of your pool it will need to run at 100% for 12 hrs to produce 2.6 ppm fc/day. You can use poolmath effects of adding to play around with percentages & run times just select your swg in the menu. It’s a helpful starting point coupled with your testing.
The average loss of most pools is 2-4 ppm/day
Being as you are in sunny central florida yours may be more on the high side as mentioned above.
A cya of 70-80 can help mitigate this some.
With a cya of 70 your fc target is 5. FC/CYA Levels
Most of us here run a little higher than target especially since a swg can make us a little lax /lazy on testing daily.
You want wiggle room for that extra sunny day, heavy rains, higher bather load, equipment failure, etc.
Going to minimum on a regular basis is a risky game & can allow things to grow as you’re riding the line & there’s no room for error.
Also remember, your swg is designed to maintain your fc, not make it up from zero so give it a boost with liquid chlorine to get to target & then see if it can maintain. If not, bring it up again w/ lc & increase your run time or percentage until u get what u want. Make a note that “x% is for mid summer” or something like that - as mentioned above fc consumption is influenced by uv, water temp, usage etc. which changes with the seasons.
Feel free to ask away with any questions that arise - there’s always someone here willing to help 😊
This was really helpful. Thank you. It is particularly useful to be reminded that "your swg is designed to maintain your fc, not make it up from zero".

One follow-up question: Is the efficacy of chlorine production and/or delivery (through the plumbing) of chlorine back to the pool affected by the pump speed? In other words, if I run the pump at a lower speed, would this effect the effectiveness of the sanitizer? I hope, but am not sure, this framing of the issue makes sense.
 
One follow-up question: Is the efficacy of chlorine production and/or delivery (through the plumbing) of chlorine back to the pool affected by the pump speed? In other words, if I run the pump at a lower speed, would this effect the effectiveness of the sanitizer? I hope, but am not sure, this framing of the issue makes sense.

No, pump speed and flow rate does not effect sanitation.

 
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