One more TA question..........

[kd did]

I have read thru pool school articles as well as several questions on the forum on lowering the TA in your pool. Our pool is crystal clear, and with the addition of the heater this year we are truly loving it! I have been using the suggested method of adding acid to lower the pH (as well as the TA) and then aerating to raise the pH back up. Since May 5th, I have added 80 ounces of dry acid, but it seems to be stuck at 120. My concern is voiding the heater warranty by having continuously high TA. Additionally the water seems really drying to the skin. Any thoughts?
Tonight's test numbers
FC 4.0
CC .05
pH 7.2
TA 120
CYA 40
Temp 84

 

[mknauss]

Be careful using a lot of dry acid. The sulfates will build up in your water and can damage metals, like your heater.

TA is not really important. Just lower your pH to 7.6 when it gets to 8. The low pH is what is causing the dry skin. Do you have a value for CH?

 

[Richard320]

Slow down!

The manual for that heater says

“Total alkalinity” is a measurement of the total amount of alkaline chemicals in the water, and control pH to a great degree. (It is not the same as pH which refers merely to the relative alkalinity/acidity balance.) Your pool water’s total alkalinity should be 100 - 140 ppm to permit easier pH control.

You're there.

Your pH is right at lower limit and you want to watch that. Low pH is far more damaging to the heater than high TA. Check out the pictures Maintain your chemicals correctly

Lastly, why use dry acid? It leaves sulfates in the water which can build up. I don't know under what exact conditions it will smell like sulfur, but I wouldn't want to find out. It's also hard on concrete (splashout) and on SWG plates. If you ever want to add a saltwater chlorine generator it's something to bear in mind.

 

[kd did]

Be careful using a lot of dry acid. The sulfates will build up in your water and can damage metals, like your heater.

TA is not really important. Just lower your pH to 7.6 when it gets to 8. The low pH is what is causing the dry skin. Do you have a value for CH?

So I must admit I have never tested the CH because I didn't think it was relevant. But I just went out grabbed a sample and it was 175 ppm. Is that okay-or low?
So is the issue using dry acid instead of MA? I thought high TA caused the same issues you are describing caused by sulfates? Obviously I am still figuring all this water chemistry out-but I actually am kinda "digging" it. Hubby lovingly calls me a "pool nerd"

 

[mknauss]

With that CH, your TA is not an issue. TA does not cause any issues with metals. Sulfates do. Sodium Bisulfate (dry acid) leaves behind sulfates in your water. Muriatic acid leaves behind salt. Use Muriatic Acid.

 

[kd did]

Slow down!

The manual for that heater says

You're there.

Your pH is right at lower limit and you want to watch that. Low pH is far more damaging to the heater than high TA. Check out the pictures Maintain your chemicals correctly

Lastly, why use dry acid? It leaves sulfates in the water which can build up. I don't know under what exact conditions it will smell like sulfur, but I wouldn't want to find out. It's also hard on concrete (splashout) and on SWG plates. If you ever want to add a saltwater chlorine generator it's something to bear in mind.

Thanks! Okay-so honestly I have been a bit confused about that. I read the manual and saw those numbers, but when I enter my test results into the pool math app, I am getting the red! saying I am outside of the recommended range. Do I have something set incorrectly?
I only used dry acid because I was the easiest to find and pick up at that moment. We would like to go to a SWG next season, so I knew that moving forward I would need to find MA.
Thanks for your help!!

 

[mknauss]

If you try to maintain your pool chemistry in the ranges of your equipment manuals, it will drive you crazy and you will be unsuccessful.
Follow What Are My Ideal Pool Levels? - Trouble Free Pool

 

[kd did]

With that CH, your TA is not an issue. TA does not cause any issues with metals. Sulfates do. Sodium Bisulfate (dry acid) leaves behind sulfates in your water. Muriatic acid leaves behind salt. Use Muriatic A

If you try to maintain your pool chemistry in the ranges of your equipment manuals, it will drive you crazy and you will be unsuccessful.
Follow What Are My Ideal Pool Levels? - Trouble Free Pool

Marty-I totally agree with using TFP Ideal Pool Levels. It is the reason for my original question-the TA level acceptable maximum suggested by the link you just provided is 80-90. So when my readings are consistently 120, my thought is that I need to make an adjustment. I appreciate your input and don't mean that to be in any way disrespectful. As someone who is just on their third year of pool ownership, I'm really just trying to figure it all out. Thanks for all your help!

 

[Richard320]

Thanks! Okay-so honestly I have been a bit confused about that. I read the manual and saw those numbers, but when I enter my test results into the pool math app, I am getting the red! saying I am outside of the recommended range. Do I have something set incorrectly?
I only used dry acid because I was the easiest to find and pick up at that moment. We would like to go to a SWG next season, so I knew that moving forward I would need to find MA.
Thanks for your help!!

120 is outside ideal but not damaging by any means. I'm going to have to disagree with Marty here. You should not just blindly adhere to somebody's recommended numbers and struggle to get everything just right, whether our guidelines or someone else's. That kind of micromanaging is what pool stores depend on to keep their sales up. The fact is, warranty is far more important than satisfying the software. We have some guidelines but they are not absolutes. Poolmath used to say 50-90+ for TA! If in the course of adjusting pH, the TA dips, it's no big deal. If it rises with a lot of water addition, it's also no big deal. But you should't mess with TA just to reach some target. It says so in Lower Total Alkalinity - Trouble Free Pool

There are two reasons to lower your total alkalinity (TA) right away, because you want to slow down the rate that the pH rises, or if high TA is contributing to a high calcium saturation index which puts you at risk of calcium scaling. You shouldn’t lower TA just to reach a target number. Make sure you actually have one of the above issues before lowering your TA.

Okay, I see your new post and you've made your decision. I'm out of this thread.

 

[kd did]

120 is outside ideal but not damaging by any means. I'm going to have to disagree with Marty here. You should not just blindly adhere to somebody's recommended numbers and struggle to get everything just right, whether our guidelines or someone else's. That kind of micromanaging is what pool stores depend on to keep their sales up. The fact is, warranty is far more important than satisfying the software. We have some guidelines but they are not absolutes. Poolmath used to say 50-90+ for TA! If in the course of adjusting pH, the TA dips, it's no big deal. If it rises with a lot of water addition, it's also no big deal. But you should't mess with TA just to reach some target. It says so in Lower Total Alkalinity - Trouble Free Pool


Okay, I see your new post and you've made your decision. I'm out of this thread.

Richard-actually I'm not sure I have made a decision. I'm truly just trying to figure this all out and would definitely agree that not voiding my warranty is much more important than micromanaging numbers. I believe that the folks here on TFP are the most knowledgeable around-which is why I came here with my question. I appreciate your input-and as a self-proclaimed "rule follower" -I'm glad to hear the numbers are not absolutes. It is good to hear that from someone who knows more about pools than I do! Thanks for all of your help!!

 

[IceShadow]

PoolMath will tell you the TA is high but it’s not something you need to worry about. Just keep an eye on the pH. If you’re chlorinating with liquid you will see the pH rise over time as CO2 offgasses. You add muriatic acid and it will bring the pH back in line, and the TA will lower a little with it. Over time it will go down. Don’t stress about it - just know what it is so you can calculate how much acid to add.

 

[kd did]

PoolMath will tell you the TA is high but it’s not something you need to worry about. Just keep an eye on the pH. If you’re chlorinating with liquid you will see the pH rise over time as CO2 offgasses. You add muriatic acid and it will bring the pH back in line, and the TA will lower a little with it. Over time it will go down. Don’t stress about it - just know what it is so you can calculate how much acid to add.

Thank you for your insight! Sometimes all the information can be a bit overwhelming and I'm just trying to figure it all out.