Oh My Gosh, There Has to be a Better Way.......

MdMcoupe

Bronze Supporter
Jul 20, 2018
31
Maryland
Had a new above ground pool installed due to our old pool being destroyed in a storm. Replacing the pool was the 1st nightmare, installers not showing up when scheduled, and when they come to install they can't finish because the pool manufacture didn't send all the parts. Lol.

The pool was finished about a day before we were to go on vacation (for only a week) so I filled the pool about 1/2 to 2/3's of the way up to give the walls some support while we were gone.

We get back and the pool LOOKS and SMELLS like a green swamp.

I filled the pool the rest of the way so I can put my pump/filter together. I have Hayward EC-40 DE filter/pump.

My problem is I can't run my Hayward pump for more than 20 minutes before the pressure starts to rise and the pump stops working really. And it's every 90 minutes i have to backwash. I've been dealing with this the last 2 days.

Please, is there a better way? For me to let the pump run for 24 hours would mean me getting up every 1/2 hour during the night to bump or backwash the filter. I hate to say it, but is my only option to drain the pool and start over....?$$$$$

Pool is green and stinks...LOL

15X30X52

Total Chlorine 0
Free Chlorine 0
PH 8.6
TA 85
Calcium H 50
Stabilizer 145


Pool store said to lower the PH first. Yesterday I added ~ 2 quarts of Muriatic Acid, and the PH didn't budge. Couple hours later I added 27 ounces of PH down....PH still didn't budge. So today I was frustrated and figured I would just throw the 2lbs of shock in there so I could start killing the algae and the pump might last longer between bumps. Well I should have known better because now it's cloudy green, and I am still bumping it every 20 minutes.

The pump has to start lasting longer sooner or later, right? Never had this problem the other years.


Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. This forum has helped me some many times over the years, and I thank you all.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
37,141
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Welcome to the forum! :handshake:

Your filter is plugging with algae. Can you place your DE filter on Recirculate? If so, do that. It will bypass the filter and allow you to circulate to deal with your water chemistry issue.

You need to lower your pH. Use PoolMath. Put 8 in the Now and 7.2 in Target for pH. Input TA of 85 in Now. Add the amount of muriatic acid it states. You need to tell the calculator what strength acid you are using. Circulate for 30 minutes after adding and repeat until your pH is 7.2

I suggest you read Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry and consider reviewing the entire Trouble Free Pool School book.

You need to order a proper test kit so you can SLAM Process and manage your water chemistry.
Order a TF100 test kit
The only other real option for a test kit is a Taylor K-2006-C. Be careful comparing prices because the K-2006 comes in sizes, designated by a letter. The basic K-2006 has .75oz bottles. You need to get the K-2006-C to get the larger bottles that you want. Even then it is a little short on the reagent & powder for the FAS/DPD test.

I also have the SpeedStir. It makes testing much easier.

While you are waiting on your test kit, add 10 ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine each evening.
 
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MdMcoupe

Bronze Supporter
Jul 20, 2018
31
Maryland
MK,

Thank you so much for taking the time to help.

I do not believe my Hayward EC-40 has a recirculate option, but I will go through the manual again in case I missed that little gem. I totally agree, my filter is plugging up with algae. This is making correcting the water very difficult. For instance, this evening the wife and I have a function to attend. I will probably have to turn the pump off so it doesn't burn the motor up. Does that mean I will lose the 7 hours of treatment I did today? Pool School tells me algae grows fast.


I plan to try again tomorrow. Should I stop with the shock, and go back to getting the PH correct? I will use the NOW and buy the acid it tells me. Even if it takes me all day with the filter clogging, you feel i should get that PH straight first?

I will take your advice on a proper testing kit, and I will read my ABC's and the Trouble Free Pool School. I am really looking forward to getting a better understanding of what I am doing out there every summer.

Thank you
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
37,141
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
What are you calling Shock? The pool store test (which we doubt is correct) is showing a very high CYA. So hopefully you are not using dichlor.

You can not clear this pool without a proper test kit. No reason to try. Just follow what I posted.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
37,141
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
From the Hayward website it appears you do not have a multivalve, so you can only 'bump' your filter.

I would suspect you will be better off buying a sub pump from Harbor Freight or Home Depot, etc to circulate your water. Trying to tackle your issue with a DE filter will be a mess. Once you get a test kit and are able to get the pool to a cloudy blue only then will you want to start filtering out the dead algae.
 

Rancho Cost-a-Lotta

Silver Supporter
Apr 10, 2018
1,941
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
I hate to say it, but is my only option to drain the pool and start over....?$$$$$

How much does it cost you to refill. Given the extra costs of running the pump and the time you'll spend cleaning your filter, it may be worth the extra cost. I can fill my pool here for about $50-$60. Just something to consider.
 

MdMcoupe

Bronze Supporter
Jul 20, 2018
31
Maryland
What are you calling Shock? The pool store test (which we doubt is correct) is showing a very high CYA. So hopefully you are not using dichlor.

You can not clear this pool without a proper test kit. No reason to try. Just follow what I posted.


Sorry for being unclear. It's a 1lb bag of Sunguard Super Cal-Shock. Calcium Hypochlorite 73% - Min available Chlorine 70%. Ok, I am going to follow your TF-100 link and pick one up. Thanks.



From the Hayward website it appears you do not have a multivalve, so you can only 'bump' your filter.

I would suspect you will be better off buying a sub pump from Harbor Freight or Home Depot, etc to circulate your water. Trying to tackle your issue with a DE filter will be a mess. Once you get a test kit and are able to get the pool to a cloudy blue only then will you want to start filtering out the dead algae.

I have a feeling that the wife and I will be late to dinner this evening. I do have a little pump that I can use real quick. Going to put that in the pool now, and just circle a hose back into the pool to keep the water moving. WOW, great idea. Again, thanks!

- - - Updated - - -

The quotes I got from my Maryland/Harford County area was around $250 to $300 per truck (5,500 gallons per truck). I would need 2 trucks, so $500 to $600 dollars.

I could always fill it with the hose, the wife pays the water bill.............
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
37,141
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
You can use the Cal Hypo if you wish. Be sure it is fully dissolved. It can sit on your liner and bleach it out. Best to use liquid chlorine when you start a SLAM Process. Read that article.

IF your CYA level is as high as the pool store says (big IF), you will need to drain over 2/3rds of your pool anyway.

How did you get such a high 'stabilizer' reading? How old is this water? What have you added?
 

getreal720

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2018
135
Pittsburgh / PA
IF that CYA level is accurate (or even close) then your going to want to just drain and refill the pool. It's going to be so much easier then fighting this swamping green mess of goop.

Let's work towards that conclusion, and not just jump to it though.

Have you added any stabilizer, anything that has the word stabilizer on it, or any product containing stablizer? Chlorine pucks?

How have you been chlorinating your pool, if at all?


I guess the easiest way, is to tell us exactly what you put into pool water, and in exactly what amounts?


I have a hard time believe the 140+ CYA reading is accurate. But if it really is over 100, and your pool really
is a green swampy mess that hasn't had any regular levels of chlorine in it.... then you should really consider
just draining and refilling that pool.

1st thing first is to get a good test kit and a proper CYA reading ASAP.

The important thing to know is if there really is any CYA in the water or not. So you need to know if you added any.
I would imagine the only way you would have gotten past 100ppm so fast is if you bought powdered stabilizer and
added it on purpose.

If you didn't and if you didn't use chlorine pucks, I'd say it's a much safer bet that you have 0 CYA.


It's my opinion, but not recommendation, that this pool would be better off being drained, cleaned, and refilled.
 

getreal720

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2018
135
Pittsburgh / PA
It costs me about $150 "ish" to fill my pool which is about 13,000 gallons. I'd say compared to most places in the united states, that's pretty expensive for city water. My normal bill runs me about $130 to $150... my bill after I drained and refilled my pool last year was close to $300.

It'll take longer, but will probably be way cheaper to fill out of your hose. My local water authority was always awesome enough to NOT take off the sewage charge on the water going into my pool. Contact the water office you pay your bill too and ask if they are willing to waive sewage on a pool refill. That's even if you pay sewage charges. If they are willing to waive it, they may ask for a starting and stopping meter reading so they know how much water went into the pool.
 

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zea3

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2009
13,092
Houston, Texas
If you have been using any trichlor/dichlor products then you have CYA in the pool. If all you have been using is cal-hypo products and you did not use any CYA/stabilizer to start the pool then you do not have CYA in the pool. It is important to have an accurate CYA level so we can best advise you how to proceed. If that CYA number you posted is correct then you need to drain the pool and start over. No use trying to adjust anything else just to drain it away.

We recommend a good quality FAS/DPD test kit such as the TF 100 or the Taylor K2006. When you do your own testing you will have more consistent results so you can dose the pool accurately.

Do you use a well for household water? If you have well water with iron in it you would be better off trucking in iron free water.
 

MdMcoupe

Bronze Supporter
Jul 20, 2018
31
Maryland
You can use the Cal Hypo if you wish. Be sure it is fully dissolved. It can sit on your liner and bleach it out. Best to use liquid chlorine when you start a SLAM Process. Read that article.

IF your CYA level is as high as the pool store says (big IF), you will need to drain over 2/3rds of your pool anyway.

How did you get such a high 'stabilizer' reading? How old is this water? What have you added?

IF that CYA level is accurate (or even close) then your going to want to just drain and refill the pool. It's going to be so much easier then fighting this swamping green mess of goop.

Let's work towards that conclusion, and not just jump to it though.

Have you added any stabilizer, anything that has the word stabilizer on it, or any product containing stablizer? Chlorine pucks?

How have you been chlorinating your pool, if at all?


I guess the easiest way, is to tell us exactly what you put into pool water, and in exactly what amounts?


I have a hard time believe the 140+ CYA reading is accurate. But if it really is over 100, and your pool really
is a green swampy mess that hasn't had any regular levels of chlorine in it.... then you should really consider
just draining and refilling that pool.

1st thing first is to get a good test kit and a proper CYA reading ASAP.

The important thing to know is if there really is any CYA in the water or not. So you need to know if you added any.
I would imagine the only way you would have gotten past 100ppm so fast is if you bought powdered stabilizer and
added it on purpose.

If you didn't and if you didn't use chlorine pucks, I'd say it's a much safer bet that you have 0 CYA.


It's my opinion, but not recommendation, that this pool would be better off being drained, cleaned, and refilled.


The pool was 1/2 filled with a hose (city water). Sat for a week, filled the pool rest of the way to install filter.

I took a sample of water to our local pool store. Results are posted above and are exactly what my sheet say.

I put 1 quart of Muriatic acid 20° 31.5% and then 2 hours later added another quart. (NOTE: this stuff was a year old, not sure it matters) PH didn't budge according to my little home depot dropper test.

I put 24 ounces of PH down 2 hours after my last dose of acid....PH was still high, still using crappy test kit.

The next day (today)

I added 2 lbs of Sunguard Super Cal-Shock. Calcium Hypochlorite 73% - Min available Chlorine 70%.


That is all I have added, absolutely nothing else. NO stabilizer.....just 2 quarts acid, 24 oz of PH down powder, and the 2lbs of "shock".

Please let me know if I missed anything.

Again thanks for all the help!
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
37,141
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
OK then. That pool store really cannot provide testing accuracy. I would never have them test anything again.

Follow my first post. You could add 30 ppm worth of CYA powder if you like. Still use the circulating pump idea.
 

MdMcoupe

Bronze Supporter
Jul 20, 2018
31
Maryland
MK,

Yeap, this was the first time I went to this store. I usually use my local Leslie's store.

I have a pump running now, with a hose hanging 5 feet above the pool to try and make as many ripples in the pool as possible.

Again thanks
 

getreal720

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2018
135
Pittsburgh / PA
The pool was 1/2 filled with a hose (city water). Sat for a week, filled the pool rest of the way to install filter.

I took a sample of water to our local pool store. Results are posted above and are exactly what my sheet say.

I put 1 quart of Muriatic acid 20° 31.5% and then 2 hours later added another quart. (NOTE: this stuff was a year old, not sure it matters) PH didn't budge according to my little home depot dropper test.

I put 24 ounces of PH down 2 hours after my last dose of acid....PH was still high, still using crappy test kit.

The next day (today)

I added 2 lbs of Sunguard Super Cal-Shock. Calcium Hypochlorite 73% - Min available Chlorine 70%.


That is all I have added, absolutely nothing else. NO stabilizer.....just 2 quarts acid, 24 oz of PH down powder, and the 2lbs of "shock".

Please let me know if I missed anything.

Again thanks for all the help!


Then you have 0 CYA. You need to get that up to the 30 ppm range at a minimum. Then get your FC levels to "shock" levels
and keep it there until the water is clear and you pass an overnight chlorine loss test. Your DE filter may make this a tough thing
to do. Your going to need to get all that algae out of the water, but sounds like your not going to have an easy way to vaccum
it out.

I wouldn't trust the pool store.
 

MdMcoupe

Bronze Supporter
Jul 20, 2018
31
Maryland
Then you have 0 CYA. You need to get that up to the 30 ppm range at a minimum. Then get your FC levels to "shock" levels
and keep it there until the water is clear and you pass an overnight chlorine loss test. Your DE filter may make this a tough thing
to do. Your going to need to get all that algae out of the water, but sounds like your not going to have an easy way to vaccum
it out.

I wouldn't trust the pool store.


UPDATE: We may have gotten a little lucky yesterday. The outside temp was ~70° but it was raining like crazy. I did spend about 12 hours yesterday, going back and forth between bumping the filter and back washing. I am on my second 25lb box of DE lol. If the pool was a 10 on the bad scale, today it maybe a 7.5. It's green in the middle, but I can start to see alot of blue down the pool walls.

It looks like a lot of algae on the bottom, so I plan to vacuum that today. BUT....my crapping little Home Depot test kit is still showing PH around 8.2 and 0 for chlorine. My TF-100 won't be in until sometime this week.

After I vacuum today, what should be my first step?

1) I do have 2lbs of Cyanuric Acid but it says the pump should run 24 hours after application, I can't do that right about now, but does that matter?
2) Bring PH down....nothing seems to budge it. I am out of MAcid, and went through 5 lbs of a powder PH down.
3) I do have 2 more bags of Sunguard Super Cal-Shock. Calcium Hypochlorite 73% - Min available Chlorine 70%.
4) Take a sample to my local Leslie's pool store and post results?

You guys were correct, my DE filter has made this very difficult. But I still have a small pump running with a hose going back into the pool to keep some ripples/movement in the pool. I really feel this has helped too..thanks @mknauss

Thanks for all the help and guidance. I will report back.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
37,141
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I assume you did not add the CYA I suggested earlier? If not, then you can add it now.

Add the CYA by using what we call the sock method. Get an old sock (no holes) and put the measured amount of CYA you need. Tie the sock closed and either suspend it in front of a return (hang it from your brush pole works with something weighted on the deck) OR if it still allows flow thru the skimmer, place the sock in the skimmer. Every 15/20 minutes give the sock a squeeze to speed up the process. Please DO NOT follow the directions on the container of CYA to just pour it into the skimmer and don't just toss the sock in the pool as the CYA is acidic and can bleach/stain pool finishes.

Do continue to bring pH down. Please use MA. The dry acid has sulfates that once they get to a certain level can be problematic.

Not sure I would use Cal Hypo right now. Liquid chlorine mixes in better.

No need for the pool store sample. When you get your TF100 run the tests and post them up.
 

zea3

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2009
13,092
Houston, Texas
If your rippling the water is breaking the surface and churning it then you are aerating the water, which drive pH up. Water doesn't need to ripple to circulate. You can drop a ping pong ball in the pool and if it is moving your water is circulating.
 

MdMcoupe

Bronze Supporter
Jul 20, 2018
31
Maryland
I assume you did not add the CYA I suggested earlier? If not, then you can add it now.

Add the CYA by using what we call the sock method. Get an old sock (no holes) and put the measured amount of CYA you need. Tie the sock closed and either suspend it in front of a return (hang it from your brush pole works with something weighted on the deck) OR if it still allows flow thru the skimmer, place the sock in the skimmer. Every 15/20 minutes give the sock a squeeze to speed up the process. Please DO NOT follow the directions on the container of CYA to just pour it into the skimmer and don't just toss the sock in the pool as the CYA is acidic and can bleach/stain pool finishes.

Do continue to bring pH down. Please use MA. The dry acid has sulfates that once they get to a certain level can be problematic.

Not sure I would use Cal Hypo right now. Liquid chlorine mixes in better.

No need for the pool store sample. When you get your TF100 run the tests and post them up.

Getting the sock ready now. I am sorry I did not add the CA earlier like you mentioned, but when I read the container and it said pump must run for 24 hours I was hesitant. The "sock method" sounds great. Thank you. I will also pick up more MA, is Muriatic acid 20° 31.5% ok to continue to use? Is there stronger or weaker that I need?

If your rippling the water is breaking the surface and churning it then you are aerating the water, which drive pH up. Water doesn't need to ripple to circulate. You can drop a ping pong ball in the pool and if it is moving your water is circulating.

Zea, thank you. I will put the circulating hose in the pool, with a little "beach ball"....


Again, thanks forum!
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
37,141
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The 31.45% MA is the strongest you can buy. So it is the best value. Just use practical safety practices when handling (eye protection, pour out of jug as close to water level as possible, etc).
 

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