New Vinyl Liner

[Jcsmith9]

Hey Guys,

New pool owner here and really need some advice. In the process of getting a new liner and the pool company was out here today and tore out the old liner. It rained last night and there is ground water in the deep end. They said it wasn’t terrible. The bottom is apparently grout and not vermiculite. There are spots in the middle and deep end where there are large cracks almost look like big craters ( I always noticed this when the old liner was in). Company told us they could fix and patch with vermiculite and install a hydrostatic relief valve to the main drain to catch the ground water. They advised the ground water caused the big cracks. There other option is to skim coat the entire bottom with vermiculite which they advise would make it all smooth with no imperfections. This option would be an extra $3k on what I was quoted for to install the liner. They also advised that no matter what option we chose it would probably look the same way when it was time for a new liner. Any recommendations on what to so? I will try to provide pics.

 

[wireform]

I'm for the $3k option as if that old stuff starts to shift you're back to square 1

 

[Jcsmith9]

I was told though that there was a good chance it would look the same when it was time for another replacement. There also suggesting a hydro relief valve to connect to the main drain.

 

[Lanzz]

I just had my liner replaced - and had the vermiculite completely re done at the same time. I don't think you want to patch it and put the liner over it - you will see all of that through the new liner, especially at night with the lights on. I am very pleased with the result - and I too will probably have to do it again when the liner is replaced in the future, but I wouldn't feel better looking at a new liner over a rough and bumpy floor.

 

[wireform]

I'd also recommend since the water issue seems rather serious is to have a well point or two in the pool area to drain water away from the pool.

 

[Jcsmith9]

I just had my liner replaced - and had the vermiculite completely re done at the same time. I don't think you want to patch it and put the liner over it - you will see all of that through the new liner, especially at night with the lights on. I am very pleased with the result - and I too will probably have to do it again when the liner is replaced in the future, but I wouldn't feel better looking at a new liner over a rough and bumpy floor.

Did you have the same ground water issue? Did you do anything to try to fix that before having your entire bottom refinished?

 

[Lanzz]

Jc, yes, there is a longstanding groundwater issue in my yard. It's not really fixable, IMO, best I can do is manage it. My yard is adjacent to a golf course, and there is a slope downward from the course through my back yard with a low point in my side yard - and water collects in that low point if we get significant (more than 1/2" of rain in a few hours, for example.) My pool is essentially "in traffic" for that water moving between the golf course and the low point - so, this wasn't the ideal yard for a vinyl pool to begin with. Pool was built in 1996 with the house, and I bought it a year ago, I have pieced together the history by looking at the drainage maps, talking to neighbors, etc. Also, my pool had a very significant leak for a year - probably 300 gallons a day, so there was even more water around in the past year. I was aware that the pool was in questionable condition when I bought the house, and figured if I could not make it workable, I would put a new pool in once I understood more and things calmed down from a supply chain perspective. Here what I have done and will do to manage the groundwater issues:

1. I keep the pool pretty full - almost to the top of the skimmer, to keep as much water pushing down as I can. Naturally, I have to watch this closely so it doesn't overflow, but it would take about 2 inches of rain in about 4 to 6 hours to make it overflow, I would usually know in advance if that is going to happen and can plan ahead

2. At some point, someone installed a well point to deal with the groundwater issue ( as wireform describes above...) The well point is by the deep end which seems right, but it had an inoperable pump in it when I took possession of the house - looked like it had been abandoned ( wish there was another one by the shallow end...)

3. After much trial and error, described in another thread, I now have a functional sump pump in the well point with the appropriate on/off points so that ground water is kept at bay, but the pump doesn't burn out trying to get the last 1/8" of water out of the pit ( I am resigned to the fact that there will always be ground water, it just needs to be below the level that causes pool issues...)

4. My next project is the extend the outlet from the well point further from the pool - oddly, it feels like discharging the water about 15 feet from the pool isn't nearly far enough to really managed the problem. I am going to extend it all the way to the curb at some point (which is up hill, and may require a more powerful pump, but this would actually get the ground water far away from the pool and into the storm drain where it belongs

I had a "practice liner" installed last year (long story, don't ask..) Even in very heavy rain with no functional pump in the well point, the liner did not float, but I am sure it would eventually if the water was not managed. Also - the bottom of my pool was in poor condition when the "practice liner" was put in, due to groundwater and leaks, plus I think nobody had touched the vermiculite since the pool was built. So - for this "real liner" I had the vermiculite re-done and the well point made functional to give me the best chance to mitigate the ground water challenge.

Assuming the ground water remains manageable, this is turning out to be a great pool and we really use and enjoy. Hope this helps you - happy to provide and additional info.

 

[Jcsmith9]

Well we just went the option of having the whole bottom skim coated with a new hydro relief valve replaced in the main drain to assist with the ground water. I REALLY hope we get many many years of no issues. They are going to skim coat vermiculite over the old grout bottom.

 

[Lanzz]

Jc, that sounds like a good plan. The hydro relief value will bring you a lot more peace of mind in terms of mitigating potential damage from groundwater - I would have done the same if it was an option for me (no main drain, in my case.) Can't wait to see pictures when the pool bottom is skim coated and the new liner is in!!

 

[Nashvillejoe]

Jc, yes, there is a longstanding groundwater issue in my yard. It's not really fixable, IMO, best I can do is manage it. My yard is adjacent to a golf course, and there is a slope downward from the course through my back yard with a low point in my side yard - and water collects in that low point if we get significant (more than 1/2" of rain in a few hours, for example.) My pool is essentially "in traffic" for that water moving between the golf course and the low point - so, this wasn't the ideal yard for a vinyl pool to begin with. Pool was built in 1996 with the house, and I bought it a year ago, I have pieced together the history by looking at the drainage maps, talking to neighbors, etc. Also, my pool had a very significant leak for a year - probably 300 gallons a day, so there was even more water around in the past year. I was aware that the pool was in questionable condition when I bought the house, and figured if I could not make it workable, I would put a new pool in once I understood more and things calmed down from a supply chain perspective. Here what I have done and will do to manage the groundwater issues:

1. I keep the pool pretty full - almost to the top of the skimmer, to keep as much water pushing down as I can. Naturally, I have to watch this closely so it doesn't overflow, but it would take about 2 inches of rain in about 4 to 6 hours to make it overflow, I would usually know in advance if that is going to happen and can plan ahead

2. At some point, someone installed a well point to deal with the groundwater issue ( as wireform describes above...) The well point is by the deep end which seems right, but it had an inoperable pump in it when I took possession of the house - looked like it had been abandoned ( wish there was another one by the shallow end...)

3. After much trial and error, described in another thread, I now have a functional sump pump in the well point with the appropriate on/off points so that ground water is kept at bay, but the pump doesn't burn out trying to get the last 1/8" of water out of the pit ( I am resigned to the fact that there will always be ground water, it just needs to be below the level that causes pool issues...)

4. My next project is the extend the outlet from the well point further from the pool - oddly, it feels like discharging the water about 15 feet from the pool isn't nearly far enough to really managed the problem. I am going to extend it all the way to the curb at some point (which is up hill, and may require a more powerful pump, but this would actually get the ground water far away from the pool and into the storm drain where it belongs

I had a "practice liner" installed last year (long story, don't ask..) Even in very heavy rain with no functional pump in the well point, the liner did not float, but I am sure it would eventually if the water was not managed. Also - the bottom of my pool was in poor condition when the "practice liner" was put in, due to groundwater and leaks, plus I think nobody had touched the vermiculite since the pool was built. So - for this "real liner" I had the vermiculite re-done and the well point made functional to give me the best chance to mitigate the ground water challenge.

Assuming the ground water remains manageable, this is turning out to be a great pool and we really use and enjoy. Hope this helps you - happy to provide and additional info.

I had a similar issue I just posted my rehab for my pool one of the things I did when I installed my first liner in 2013 I built a landscaping wall about 36 inches high around the backside of my pool and then I put in drainage and I routed it to the side of the property and that eliminated about 80% of the water on the heavy rains