New to TFP - water balance issues

Dirk

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TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
8,624
Central California
Pool Size
12300
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Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Solid plan, except maybe one thing. You have to match the in and the out perfectly, and gently. The pump can't remove water faster than you can add it, or the exchange won't work. If there is no way to dial down the pump, or add more fill hoses, then you may have to just siphon the water out and replenish with one hose. Or siphon with more hoses or a larger hose, as long as you can keep up with the filling.
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
8,624
Central California
Pool Size
12300
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Main pump off of course. Ideally you fill into a skimmer, as that adds the new water gently onto the surface of the pool as it flows out of the skimmer opening. If that's not available, you might fashion a bucket on the steps just right, and fill into that, so that the water leaves the bucket gently onto the surface. You don't want to just jam the fill hose into the water, because that'll push the new water down, and cause circulation, neither of which you want...
 

jimbethesda

Gold Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
491
Austin, TX
Just got off the phone with City of Austin. $175 for the permit and no option to have it waived. They want their cake and eat it too. If they catch you dumping into sewer system without permit or into storm drain (not allowed unless you dechlorinate and no algae) it is a $2,000 fine. Good tip on checking on when water usages rates are calculated. I'll be looking into that.
Is this above a certain number of gallons? For example, do I need a permit every time I backwash my filter?
 

ATX61

Bronze Supporter
Oct 4, 2020
26
Austin, TX
Is this above a certain number of gallons? For example, do I need a permit every time I backwash my filter?
As I understand it backwashing of filter is fine as long as effluent is contained within your lot/yard and does not runoff into bordering lots or storm sewers.
 

ATX61

Bronze Supporter
Oct 4, 2020
26
Austin, TX
Main pump off of course. Ideally you fill into a skimmer, as that adds the new water gently onto the surface of the pool as it flows out of the skimmer opening. If that's not available, you might fashion a bucket on the steps just right, and fill into that, so that the water leaves the bucket gently onto the surface. You don't want to just jam the fill hose into the water, because that'll push the new water down, and cause circulation, neither of which you want...
I could not achieve a balance of water in/out with the pump I am using and siphoning was super slow (did not want plaster exposed that long). So I opted for the drain/refill method. Drained about 80%-90% of the water out and the refill is in process. All good so far. Once refill is complete should I circulate a bit and then test? Or add some liquid chlorine first? Hesitant to add CYA just yet as my levels were so high prior.
 

Katodude

Silver Supporter
Aug 22, 2017
1,285
West Palm Beach/Florida
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Add LC right away.

I would let the water circulate for at least 24 hours before you test and do anything about CYA. Less important this time of year.
 
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Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
8,624
Central California
Pool Size
12300
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
^^^ What Katodude said! Before you add any CYA, we're going to make sure you can pass the end-of-SLAM criteria (to determine if you have any algae or not). If you've got any algae, you'll SLAM first before adding too much CYA. Can you adjust your signature to express exactly what Pentair chlorinator you have?
 

ATX61

Bronze Supporter
Oct 4, 2020
26
Austin, TX
^^^ What Katodude said! Before you add any CYA, we're going to make sure you can pass the end-of-SLAM criteria (to determine if you have any algae or not). If you've got any algae, you'll SLAM first before adding too much CYA. Can you adjust your signature to express exactly what Pentair chlorinator you have?
Signature updated. I do have some algae but when pool was empty I used tank spryer to spray down walls and floor with diluted chlorine and brushed. Pool is almost full now and do not see any visible algae growth in pool any longer. Along the length of one side there is a limestone waterfall that has recurring algae growth (green/black) contributing to the situation. I typically spray it with chlorine every 4-6 weeks to keep in check. The plan for this weekend is to disassemble filter and clean membranes (dishwasher detergent/MA) and replace DE.
 

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ATX61

Bronze Supporter
Oct 4, 2020
26
Austin, TX
I don’t think many people follow this. Certainly the 3 other houses on my cove do not. I’ll plead the 5th
There are some busy bodies on my street always watching out. They called City of Austin on the guy who owned house before for me for draining into storm drain. He also did a free fill from the fire hydrant out front which probably pushed them over the edge. All of it in broad daylight.
 

jimbethesda

Gold Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
491
Austin, TX
There are some busy bodies on my street always watching out. They called City of Austin on the guy who owned house before for me for draining into storm drain. He also did a free fill from the fire hydrant out front which probably pushed them over the edge. All of it in broad daylight.
Oh geez. Fill from hydrant. Not a good idea. I don’t think I’d drain my entire pool without proper permitting, but my filter backwashing most certainly isn’t contained in my yard and neither was the 2 inches I needed to drain after a heavy rainfall.
 
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Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
8,624
Central California
Pool Size
12300
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I have a neighbor right next door that makes those types of reports and phone calls. She has a neighbor right next door that is actually making those types of reports and phone calls, but tells everyone it is her. 🤫
 
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Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
8,624
Central California
Pool Size
12300
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Signature updated. I do have some algae but when pool was empty I used tank spryer to spray down walls and floor with diluted chlorine and brushed. Pool is almost full now and do not see any visible algae growth in pool any longer. Along the length of one side there is a limestone waterfall that has recurring algae growth (green/black) contributing to the situation. I typically spray it with chlorine every 4-6 weeks to keep in check. The plan for this weekend is to disassemble filter and clean membranes (dishwasher detergent/MA) and replace DE.
I think at some point you should test for CC and do an OCLT to determine if there is algae in the water (I suspect there is). If you're going to have to do a SLAM, it's better to do it before you add a lot of CYA, because you can do the SLAM at a lower FC level, so you'll use less chlorine. This, from TFP SLAM instructions:
SLAMing an outdoor pool is most effective when CYA is around 30 to 40. Below 30 you lose too much chlorine to sunlight. As CYA goes up, SLAMing requires more and more chlorine, which starts to get impractical around 80 or 90. With CYA above 90 we recommend replacing water to get CYA down before you start the SLAM process.
So once you feel the water is mixed enough, test for CYA. Bring it up to 30 and mix overnight. Confirm 30, then do an OCLT and test CC. If you have algae, proceed with a SLAM.

In the meantime, keep your FC up at target level or above as much as possible.

You know now that you can no longer use the Rainbow. Are you planning to upgrade to an SWG, or dose liquid chlorine manually? The answer to that will affect the strategy going forward.
 
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Katodude

Silver Supporter
Aug 22, 2017
1,285
West Palm Beach/Florida
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
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Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Why wait to do the OCLT. Do it tonight and start SLAMMING tomorrow morning if required.

If we even suspect algae bring FC up to 12 tonight to start the SLAM right away. The sooner you get started the sooner it is over. You can adjust the SLAM level after you test CYA.
 

Stoopalini

Gold Supporter
Jun 8, 2020
494
Central Texas
Pool Size
14060
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Along the length of one side there is a limestone waterfall that has recurring algae growth (green/black) contributing to the situation. I typically spray it with chlorine every 4-6 weeks to keep in check.

Can you post a pic of this? You shouldn't have recurring algae on your waterfall.
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
8,624
Central California
Pool Size
12300
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Why wait to do the OCLT. Do it tonight and start SLAMMING tomorrow morning if required.
He could. I just didn't see the hurry. With 80-90% fill of fresh, chlorinated water and no verified evidence of algae, with FC at target and only warmish weather, he can afford to take it one step at a time.

Actually, he should clean his filter before adding CYA, so there's that to consider, too. So as long as the water stays clear, I'd:

Maintain target FC and pH throughout --> Clean filter --> bring CYA to 30 --> perform OCLT --> SLAM if necessary --> bring other chemicals to target.

If he's in a hurry, I suppose he can cram some of those steps together...
 

ATX61

Bronze Supporter
Oct 4, 2020
26
Austin, TX
He could. I just didn't see the hurry. With 80-90% fill of fresh, chlorinated water and no verified evidence of algae, with FC at target and only warmish weather, he can afford to take it one step at a time.

Actually, he should clean his filter before adding CYA, so there's that to consider, too. So as long as the water stays clear, I'd:

Maintain target FC and pH throughout --> Clean filter --> bring CYA to 30 --> perform OCLT --> SLAM if necessary --> bring other chemicals to target.

If he's in a hurry, I suppose he can cram some of those steps together...
Filter has been thoroughly cleaned and have been adding CYA. Just tested for CYA which is now at 35. Dosed pool with chlorine to get FC around 6. Will test for FC at sunset and perform OCLT. There was definitely evidence of green algae on the pool walls before the drain/fill but none in and around pool now. Did not see any evidence in the filter membranes/housing but still think I should perform OCLT.

I did see a lot of pitting in plaster when drained, suspect the pool service guys/previous owner did not monitor CH that closely and ran low CH over time. The fill water water is low in CH also. Pool was re-plastered less than 3 years ago. Tested for CH and and is at 150. I will need to get that increased soon.
 
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ATX61

Bronze Supporter
Oct 4, 2020
26
Austin, TX
I think at some point you should test for CC and do an OCLT to determine if there is algae in the water (I suspect there is). If you're going to have to do a SLAM, it's better to do it before you add a lot of CYA, because you can do the SLAM at a lower FC level, so you'll use less chlorine. This, from TFP SLAM instructions:

So once you feel the water is mixed enough, test for CYA. Bring it up to 30 and mix overnight. Confirm 30, then do an OCLT and test CC. If you have algae, proceed with a SLAM.

In the meantime, keep your FC up at target level or above as much as possible.

You know now that you can no longer use the Rainbow. Are you planning to upgrade to an SWG, or dose liquid chlorine manually? The answer to that will affect the strategy going forward.
I will be removing the chlorinator when I do the heater install. I think a SWG is definitely in my future, most likely early Spring 2021. I do have concerns about corrosion though as I have a limestone deck. I recall a SWG pool my father in law had that was always eating at the limestone deck/coping. Maybe water was out of balance? Will need to do some research on this.
 

ATX61

Bronze Supporter
Oct 4, 2020
26
Austin, TX
Can you post a pic of this? You shouldn't have recurring algae on your waterfall.
The limestone rocks have numerous divots/holes that collect and hold water. There are large trees around my property that drop leaves/blooms/pollen that collect in the holes and allow algae to form above the water line which then is allowed to deposit into the pool. The limestone is actually below the water level and stays moist. I typically spray the rocks with diluted chlorine every couple months, more often in the summer to knock the algae back. Probably not an issue when CYA/FC levels are properly maintained but that was not the case in late summer when high CYA levels caused chlorine lock and there was a ready source of algae.
 

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