New pool... stenner pump install

Aug 17, 2016
7
Katy, TX
I'm in the Houston area as well. Couple of quick comments. I'm very surprised to hear that your bleach demand is so low. I use the standard 8.25% concentration and my bleach demand varies widely from summer to winter. I have a 19K gal pool and in the winter, I might only add 20-30 oz/day whereas in the summertime, I add anywhere from 50 to 100+ ounces per day. Of course the amount depends on my CYA level, but I try to keep that around 40. Additionally, I've read that heat can degrade liquid bleach quickly. For that reason, I'd be concerned about storing such a large quantity outside in the Texas heat.
 

FnC80

Gold Supporter
Aug 23, 2017
89
Manvel, TX (Houston)
The pool has only been in operation since Harvey, so as far as bleach demand it's been consistent and low. Though where the pool sits on the east side of the house, I'd say all of the pool only gets full sun just a few hours a day. That probably keeps the demand low. I have the 15 gallon tank but I plan on only filling with enough bleach where I don't have to mess with chlorine additions during weekdays and can refill on the weekend.

As far as running shorter duration higher volumes on the stenner, I've thought of that. If I calculated right, at 100% output it's roughly 16oz an hour, so 2 hours currently to dose the pool. Next summer if demand goes up significantly, I may get the larger tube size and recalibrate. Perhaps run a winter and summer tube to maximize lifespan of both?

I'm thinking the slip joint with a threaded reducer to 1/2" might be the best way to go. I need to double check the pipe size however.


_________________________________________________________
17.7k gal, 98 ft perimeter, IG quartz, 3HP EcoStar VSP, 1.5HP TriStar Dual Speed, 725 sq ft SwimClear Cartridge, Rainbow chlorinator, Paramount clear O3, Pro Logic controller, 500k BTU heater, AquaVac 500, Spillover Spa, 3 sheer waterfalls, 3 bubblers.
 

jmastron

LifeTime Supporter
Jul 21, 2014
258
Sacramento, CA
I'm in the Houston area as well. Couple of quick comments. I'm very surprised to hear that your bleach demand is so low. I use the standard 8.25% concentration and my bleach demand varies widely from summer to winter. I have a 19K gal pool and in the winter, I might only add 20-30 oz/day whereas in the summertime, I add anywhere from 50 to 100+ ounces per day. Of course the amount depends on my CYA level, but I try to keep that around 40. Additionally, I've read that heat can degrade liquid bleach quickly. For that reason, I'd be concerned about storing such a large quantity outside in the Texas heat.

You might want to consider raising your CYA to 60-70; in a sunny hot cimate it should noticeably cut down on the chlorine usage -- you use a bit more chlorine initially to raise FC to the proper level for the higher CYA, but less every day to maintain.

Agree on the usage variation -- in the heat of July summer if the pool is uncovered with water temp close to 90, I'll add a half gallon of 12.5% a day (covering reduces that a lot). In winter when the water is in the 40s (no freeze/no close), even with no cover a gallon every 2-3 weeks is sufficient. I tell everyone the pool is open and ready to swim; nobody's taken me up on that yet!
 
Aug 17, 2016
7
Katy, TX
You might want to consider raising your CYA to 60-70; in a sunny hot cimate it should noticeably cut down on the chlorine usage -- you use a bit more chlorine initially to raise FC to the proper level for the higher CYA, but less every day to maintain. Agree on the usage variation -- in the heat of July summer if the pool is uncovered with water temp close to 90, I'll add a half gallon of 12.5% a day (covering reduces that a lot). In winter when the water is in the 40s (no freeze/no close), even with no cover a gallon every 2-3 weeks is sufficient. I tell everyone the pool is open and ready to swim; nobody's taken me up on that yet!

I'm confused. Everything I've ready to date says to keep your CYA in the 30-50 range...irrespective of the amount of sun your pool gets. Well, not totally irrespective...since you probably wouldn't need any CYA if your pool never got any sun, but you get the point. I thought that once you get up over the 50ppm range for CYA, any more CYA will not help you...and in fact, can actually hurt you (in the wallet anyway) because you will need a higher FC level to ensure the same level of sanitation occurs (and avoid algae growth). In short, once you go beyond 50ppm, higher CYA really just means that you'll use (or should be using) more bleach, not less. Can you point me to where this guidance comes from?...to target 60-70ppm of CYA for sunny/hot climates?
 

toofast

Well-known member
May 9, 2013
993
North East Ohio
I think the the confusing part is if you have a salt water generator you're told to run higher cya ....so if you have a stenner you could also run higher cya...

I was not clear on cya is above 50 taking more chlorine unless of course you have an outbreak
 

CJadamec

TFP Expert
Apr 29, 2016
2,390
Quaker Hill, CT
For liquid chlorine ie bottles of bleach or in this case a stenner pump your CYA range should be about 30-50 ppm. If you have less sun and aren't loosing a ton of FC to sunlight keep the CYA closer to 30 ppm. In the event you need to SLAM the pool you will need less liquid chlorine to do so. If your sun demand is high and you loose a lot of FC during the day maintain your CYA closer to 50ppm this will lower the amount of chlorine the sun will eat.

For a SWG system the chlorine the SWG puts in the pool isn't as highly concentrated as liquid chlorine. Keeping your CYA in the 60-70pmm range will help your FC stay stable and evenly distribute around the pool. Making life easier for both you and your SWG.

At least that's how I understand the mechanics of it. The important thing is to maintain the right level of FC for the amount of CYA in your water. Theres no saying you can't run 60-70ppm in a pool with liquid chlorine you just need to maintain a higher FC which will use more bleach. Some people in super heavy sun do just that because it is more than offset by the reduction in FC consumed by the sun.
 

jmastron

LifeTime Supporter
Jul 21, 2014
258
Sacramento, CA
I think the the confusing part is if you have a salt water generator you're told to run higher cya ....so if you have a stenner you could also run higher cya...

I was not clear on cya is above 50 taking more chlorine unless of course you have an outbreak

You're on the right track -- higher CYA will take more chlorine *one time* to get to the higher FC target that a higher CYA calls for. But it will take *less* chlorine each day after that to maintain above the (higher) minimum because the FC level will drop less each day. Of course, if you have an algae outbreak it will take more chlorine again to get to a (higher) shock level, and at very high CYA levels (90s+) that makes a big difference -- if you have algae outbreaks.

Personally, I think 30-50 is a good recommendation for people beginning to maintain their own pools with liquid chlorine, because it's easy to forget, make a mistake testing or dosing, not realize how much FC will drop after high bather load etc. and end up with algae, and it's relatively easy to SLAM at those CYA levels.

Once someone is more familiar and comfortable with their pool and the process, it's more reasonable to customize the ranges and values to work for them. In hot, always sunny climates, a CYA level closer to 60-70 might be a better sweet spot trading off lower daily chlorine use against the risk of a harder SLAM if you mess up. Especially with a Stenner pump or an SWCG giving a more consistent daily dosing.
 

FnC80

Gold Supporter
Aug 23, 2017
89
Manvel, TX (Houston)
Here's more an electrical issue in planning out the install. Given it will be a "permanent" fixture on my equipment pad, should I run the electrical through conduit to my panel? I was thinking using a liquid tight conduit tee connected to a junction box, splicing the cut off cord from the pump into outdoor wiring there, and running a conduit run from the junction box to knock out hole in bottom of panel. Is that overkill?


_________________________________________________________
17.7k gal, 98 ft perimeter, IG quartz, 3HP EcoStar VSP, 1.5HP TriStar Dual Speed, 725 sq ft SwimClear Cartridge, Rainbow chlorinator, Paramount clear O3, Pro Logic controller, 500k BTU heater, AquaVac 500, Spillover Spa, 3 sheer waterfalls, 3 bubblers.
 

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CJadamec

TFP Expert
Apr 29, 2016
2,390
Quaker Hill, CT
Technically speaking its better to leave the 3 prong plug on the pump alone and plug it into a GFCI protected outlet with an in-use outdoor cover on it.

What you are thinking of doing will work too it's just not the by the book way of doing it.
 

jmastron

LifeTime Supporter
Jul 21, 2014
258
Sacramento, CA
Here's more an electrical issue in planning out the install. Given it will be a "permanent" fixture on my equipment pad, should I run the electrical through conduit to my panel? I was thinking using a liquid tight conduit tee connected to a junction box, splicing the cut off cord from the pump into outdoor wiring there, and running a conduit run from the junction box to knock out hole in bottom of panel. Is that overkill?


_________________________________________________________
17.7k gal, 98 ft perimeter, IG quartz, 3HP EcoStar VSP, 1.5HP TriStar Dual Speed, 725 sq ft SwimClear Cartridge, Rainbow chlorinator, Paramount clear O3, Pro Logic controller, 500k BTU heater, AquaVac 500, Spillover Spa, 3 sheer waterfalls, 3 bubblers.

Is it a 120V or 240V Stenner pump, and how are you planning to control/time it? It is much better, as CJadamec mentions, to install an outlet and leave the plug on the pump especially if it's 120V. Much easier to swap out, move and test elsewhere, etc too.

I use a WiFi outdoor plug (sold as WiOn, also as ECO plugs at Walmart for a bit cheaper), plug that into the outlet, plug the Stenner pump into it. I set it with a daily timer that starts at 10am (when I know my pump will be running), and I adjust the end time as needed based on my FC testing. Not perfect, but since I test inside it's really nice to just adjust it from my phone then and not have to remember to go back out.
 

FnC80

Gold Supporter
Aug 23, 2017
89
Manvel, TX (Houston)
It's a 120V, and I was planning to wire it into an extra AUX input on my prologic PS-8 controller. I was thinking that way I can control the timers and lock it so it only can run if the primary pump is running. Just plugging it in would be a bit more convenient to just plug it in, but adding a gfci outlet and outdoor timer seems like extra complexity and even more costly then just wiring it to my existing controller which I can also control with my remote if need ever should arise. Perhaps I'm over complicating things? I tend to do that with my projects ha.


_________________________________________________________
17.7k gal, 98 ft perimeter, IG quartz, 3HP EcoStar VSP, 1.5HP TriStar Dual Speed, 725 sq ft SwimClear Cartridge, Rainbow chlorinator, Paramount clear O3, Pro Logic controller, 500k BTU heater, AquaVac 500, Spillover Spa, 3 sheer waterfalls, 3 bubblers.
 

Teald024

TFP Guide
I'd suggest wiring the relay out to an outlet with an in use cover. You can still have the benefit of controlling via automation, but also have the plug & gfi outlet. This option is minimal additional cost. You wouldn't need to have the Stenner wire in the conduit/liquid-tite. The wire between the automation panel and the outlet would be in the conduit. This way you could easily unplug if you need to and would remove the need for a separate disconnect switch between the Stenner and panel (if required by Code in your area).

When I installed my Stenner, I used a tee from the main line down to 3/4" slip. Then added a 3/4" ball valve then to a 1/2" NPT fitting. All are slip fittings except the final NPT fitting. That way I could close the valve if I ever needed to perform maintenance on the duck bill valve or plastic lines up to the Stenner. I didn't want to have my system out of commission if I needed to do extended maintenance. I would probably make the 3/4" pipe shorter so that less bleach is in the feed pipe.

bottom right is downstream towards pool.
fN98MbQl.jpg
 
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FnC80

Gold Supporter
Aug 23, 2017
89
Manvel, TX (Houston)
I didn't think of adding in a shut off valve, good idea. Originally I was just thinking of a plug I could screw into the hole if I needed to do maintenance. Are the duckbills an annual service?


_________________________________________________________
17.7k gal, 98 ft perimeter, IG quartz, 3HP EcoStar VSP, 1.5HP TriStar Dual Speed, 725 sq ft SwimClear Cartridge, Rainbow chlorinator, Paramount clear O3, Pro Logic controller, 500k BTU heater, AquaVac 500, Spillover Spa, 3 sheer waterfalls, 3 bubblers.
 

jmastron

LifeTime Supporter
Jul 21, 2014
258
Sacramento, CA
I didn't think of adding in a shut off valve, good idea. Originally I was just thinking of a plug I could screw into the hole if I needed to do maintenance. Are the duckbills an annual service?


IMO a plug for the hole is sufficient; that's what I have. For an above-ground pool with the piping below the water level a valve would be nice, but if above the water level shutting off the pump and putting in the plug is pretty easy. And I don't prefer a lot of dead-end pipe between the injector and the main water flow.
 

Teald024

TFP Guide
IMO a plug for the hole is sufficient; that's what I have. For an above-ground pool with the piping below the water level a valve would be nice, but if above the water level shutting off the pump and putting in the plug is pretty easy. And I don't prefer a lot of dead-end pipe between the injector and the main water flow.

Agreed. in reality it is only about 3 oz of bleach in left the pipe.

I haven't had my Stenner installed long enough to say how often the duckbill needs servicing.
 

FnC80

Gold Supporter
Aug 23, 2017
89
Manvel, TX (Houston)
I got around to installing the tee and pump yesterday afternoon. As recommended above, I installed an outdoor gfci and ran conduit back to my control panel and hooked it up to an empty AUX port. My only complaint in that, is Hayward has a ton of things you can call an AUX input, but nothing that really fits... thus it's labeled "AUX PUMP" on my panel and remote now.

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The plumbing part was even easier than expected. Cut the pipe leaving the heater just upstream of where my tab dispenser is plumbed. Easy part was there's a coupling at the heater outlet so once I cut it, easy to unscrew and slip in the 2" reducing tee and glue. From there I dropped in a 3/4" slip to 1/4" fnpt bushing and good to go. I was unsure in the planning if I wanted to go 1/2" thread or the 1/4". I thought the 1/2" at first but then didn't like how far it extended into the inside of the pipe, so glued in the 1/4" bushing instead.

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I have it on a program timer, but I have yet to put bleach in it and turn it on. I've spent the morning making a spreadsheet "cheat sheet" to calculate the max ounces dispensed over 1 to 8 hours from 10% to 100% output. Plus it also gives me how many gallons per week of bleach required at any given dosage. It also gives me a way to adjust dosage from the remote by resetting the timer in how long it runs, without messing with the adjustable output on the stenner. So given my new cheat sheet if I wanted to dose about 28oz a day and run for 4 hours when pool pump is at 100%, I'd need to set my output percent to ~45% on the stenner. I appreciate all the help during the install, and some of the great ideas to boot. I'll keep an update of once I get it running and dialed in.

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_________________________________________________________
17.7k gal, 98 ft perimeter, IG quartz, 3HP EcoStar VSP, 1.5HP TriStar Dual Speed, 725 sq ft SwimClear Cartridge, Rainbow chlorinator, Paramount clear O3, Pro Logic controller, 500k BTU heater, AquaVac 500, Spillover Spa, 3 sheer waterfalls, 3 bubblers.
 

FnC80

Gold Supporter
Aug 23, 2017
89
Manvel, TX (Houston)
UPDATE: so after a bit of playing with settings, run time, adjustable flow, and checking my daily FC I think I have it figured out. Turns out that with my current setup I didn't really need the adjustable flow control. I found it easier to leave it at 100% output and control the run time which I can adjust from the remote. So really I overthought the process, and in the end keeping it simpler is far easier. My FC have been dialed in for the last couple days, no movement. Now all I have to do during the week is check pH, with full test suite and refilling my stenner reservoir on weekends and adjust stenner runtime if needed. Really is starting to be a TFP [emoji1303]


_________________________________________________________
17.7k gal, 98 ft perimeter, IG quartz, 3HP EcoStar VSP, 1.5HP TriStar Dual Speed, 725 sq ft SwimClear Cartridge, Rainbow chlorinator, Paramount clear O3, Pro Logic controller, 500k BTU heater, AquaVac 500, Spillover Spa, 3 sheer waterfalls, 3 bubblers.
 

Demegrad9

Well-known member
May 27, 2017
362
Coventry, CT
Awesome work! Looks great. I have a similar setup with a Rola-chem pump and loved it this season.

Maybe in Texas your weather is more consistent (sun & hot) than up in the northeast because I had to continue checking FC levels every other day. Often no change is necessary but here in NE the variation between gloomy rain and full sun changes chlorine demand quite a bit week to week.
 

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