New Pool - Southern New Jersey

daddymack

Silver Supporter
Jul 20, 2016
325
Las Vegas
Just curious what your PB said about a step onto the ledge... Your regs may be different then they are here ... or better.. your PB may know the inspector ..lol...
 

Esloser

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2016
520
Millville, NJ
We talked about it and they were supposed to add one before leaving, but they didn't. I'm hoping it's not a big deal. I haven't measured it, but it's supposed to be a 12" ledge, which would make the step down 15". Honestly, I was a lot more concerned with the step down into the spa. I'm still relatively young, but give it 15 years and I think I'll appreciate those steps.
 

Esloser

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2016
520
Millville, NJ
Haha - thanks for keeping on top of me. I've been watering the Gunite twice a day for an hour each time to keep it wet. I've been hoping for some rain to help me out, but nothing here in the Northeast. The electricians were out today to do their initial walk-through and measurements.

They will be back tomorrow to:

1. Run electric from house panel to the pool panel by equipment
2. Install Hayward automation system
3. Install automatic valves
4. Do the deck bonding loop per code
5. Install the lights (2 pool and 1 spa)

I have not yet heard about the natural gas getting hooked up. I do have some other issues that I am waiting to see how they handle them before commenting on them in a public forum.

Any updates?
 

Esloser

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2016
520
Millville, NJ
Per my earlier update, I am having an issue with my PB (PM me for name if interested - was asked not to post it here but am more than willing to share).

Today, the electricians came out to do their measurements and get me to sign their contract before returning tomorrow for them to do the work. The way my pool builder does it is that they subcontract out ALL of the work from what I've been able to understand. However, there is a separate "Buyer's Selection of Contractors(s) that they have you sign that list contractors for Electrical, Concrete, and Natural Gas. They have pre-negotiated rates with these contractors.

My question is: Has anyone had to pay extra to run conduit for pool lights back to the equipment pad? I just had my electrician out today. The original contract called for 200' of electric work from my home's panel. The distance from my home's panel to the pool panel is 145'. Now, they are adding in the length of conduit needed to run 3 pool lights and adding over $1k to my electric estimates, which were already over $3,300. I couldn't believe it! I would've never had imagined that the wiring from the pool to the equipment pad was not included in the price of the pool.


Here's the exact wording of the contract:
Furnish and install up to 200' feet of electrical conduit from Owner's existing panel, includes a GROUND FAULT INTERRUPTER for pool lights as per Code requirement, and includes cost of necessary permits. Owner responsible for panel meeting Code. (Additional electrical conduit over length shown is $7.00 per foot.) Does not include filling in trenches after conduit is placed.

Price is typical inground electrical run only. If you select a different contractor you must contact BHP and Township Buliding Department in writing to change contractor and all inspections must be called in.


I wanted to research it a bit before posting it in this thread. I also wanted to give my sales rep the opportunity to make it right before making it public, but an email I sent this afternoon has gone unanswered. That's it - no mention of there being an extra charge to run conduit for lights. Nothing. In the end, I signed the electrical contract (they are coming back tomorrow to do the work) and am going to have to suck up the additional $1k. It would cost me more to arbitrate it than to just eat it. In return, I will be sure to mention it to anyone that asks who built my pool and in settings such as this.

Ultimately, it has caused me to lose confidence in this builder and am worried about other "hidden" costs that are going to pop up and bite me in the butt.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
46,657
Tallahassee, FL
That is so wrong.........the lights are part of the electrical run! In fact think about it like this....what other electrical will go all the way to the pool? Are they thinking of the electrical as being just from the panel to the pad where the equipment sits?

I am sorry you are having to deal with this. I would be worried about other hidden charges as well :(
 

Esloser

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2016
520
Millville, NJ
My thought (and it could be wrong) is that I would be responsible for getting the electricity from my house to the equipment pad (145'). Anything after the equipment pad is their responsibility and included in the cost of the pool. My pool has 2 lights in the pool and one in the spa as part of the proposal and the contract. How is the installation (running the wire back to the pool equipment and automation) not included in that price? By the way, this is my first pool build so don't know what is standard in the industry.

I'm thinking that the electrical should be from my panel in my home to the pad. They are adding the additional runs for 3 pool lights on top of that from the pool pad to the pool. My analogy is that they installed the skimmers, but didn't charge me separately for the pipes to the equipment at a certain amount per foot. Why, then, would they charge me to run the pool lights to the equipment pad separately?

I think they charged me $800 to add a light. That $800 should cover the light, installing it, and running the wire to the pool pad and controller. Right?
 

TortugaCat

Bronze Supporter
May 29, 2016
82
Boston, MA
Our PB did. something similar with the electrical and gas contract. We got a certain number of feet included and then it was x/ft after that. It did not exclude filling the trench, which seems especially chintzy. In our case the crew who did the skimmers and pipes are employees of the PB. The electricians are subs who work nearly exclusively for the PB. I think that is where the difference is in their minds.


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ccp4321

Active member
Mar 3, 2015
31
Texas
All the electrical runs were included in our price. The distance estimates were put in at the start and there was never any suggestion that if they were wrong (ie the PB sales guy measured them wrong) that we would have to make up the difference. I'd take it up with the PB and see what they can do.
 

Esloser

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2016
520
Millville, NJ
Our PB did. something similar with the electrical and gas contract. We got a certain number of feet included and then it was x/ft after that. It did not exclude filling the trench, which seems especially chintzy. In our case the crew who did the skimmers and pipes are employees of the PB. The electricians are subs who work nearly exclusively for the PB. I think that is where the difference is in their minds.


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My problem is that it was never explained to me. When I walked the yard with the PB and we discussed the distance from my panel to the pool pad, there was never any discussion about - well, you have 3 lights that are each 50' away plus the distance from the house to the pad - you're going to need 400' of electrical run. The contract even says from the owners panel - doesn't say where to and my assumption was to the pool pad. The bonding loop was included in the pricing and not extra.


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Esloser

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2016
520
Millville, NJ
The electricians are back out today to do the actual work of installing the line from my house panel to the pool equipment, installing the Hayward automation and control panel, and installing the lights. I did try to contact the pool company again this morning and asked who else, besides the construction manager, I could speak to. They passed me off the the Sales General Manager's voicemail and I haven't heard back from him. That was well over 2 hours ago. I'm not confident he'll return my call either. I'll send an email to the owner of the company later to see what is viewpoint on the whole thing is. It's an unfortunate situation because up until this point, I was happy with the builder and the progress they were making. I just can't understand how a pool builder that has been in business for over 54 years was 35% off on their electrical estimate.

Moving on - electrical will be done today. Next is Natural Gas, although I'm not sure yet when they will be out. I did call my local gas company to check on the sizing of my meter and service line. I'm hoping there aren't any surprises there too. The only other variable expense I see is the concrete and that should be based off of finished square footage.
 

grottoguy

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 24, 2014
458
NJ
My PB did everything in house except the electric. They also told me I got something like 200 or 150 feet included and it was only after many questions I finally discovered that they included distance from lights to panel and not just the distance from panel to my Pad.

Then right before the electrician came he sent me a contract that referenced an additional fee if he had to go under a patio.

My sense is that if you were misled it was probably intentional. He might not have deliberately lied to you, but likely knew you misunderstood and made no attempt to clarify.
 

Esloser

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2016
520
Millville, NJ
Yes, that would've been helpful to understand up front. Actually, if they added in the distance of the lights it could have impacted my purchasing decision to the other builder. The pool builder actually told me on the phone this morning that, "regardless if the sales rep measured it accurately or not, I'd still have to pay the same amount." He was implying that had the sales rep done the measurements correctly and told me the actual cost up front, I would still be paying the same amount. Although, it is a true statement, failing to tell me up front impacted my decision to purchase my pool from them and artificially lowered the price of the finished pool. It just feels sleazy to me.

I think the electricians are smart to what the pool builders are doing to their customers. So, they come out the day before to make sure you sign their contract to make sure they are able to work the next day. I'm sure they've had a lot of people say they aren't paying the exorbitant mark-up and kick them off their property. Then, they lose a day of work. Actually, I almost considered doing the same thing. Unfortunately, the only person I'd be hurting in that scenario would be myself. As of now, the pool builder has gotten $45k of $47k due to him. Everything else is independent subcontractors. The only remaining portion of the payment schedule is due at plaster.

My PB did everything in house except the electric. They also told me I got something like 200 or 150 feet included and it was only after many questions I finally discovered that they included distance from lights to panel and not just the distance from panel to my Pad.

Then right before the electrician came he sent me a contract that referenced an additional fee if he had to go under a patio.

My sense is that if you were misled it was probably intentional. He might not have deliberately lied to you, but likely knew you misunderstood and made no attempt to clarify.
 

Esloser

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2016
520
Millville, NJ
The electricians are done - they wrapped up about 20 minutes ago. The trenches were left open for inspection and they won't be back to fill them in. Once they have been inspected, I will go out with my rake and shovel to fill them back in. These guys keep mentioning "landscapers". I don't think they realize I do all of my own landscaping and don't have a tractor to do it all. I get that it is in the contract that I signed that they don't fill in the trenches. I just find it hard to believe that you spend that kind of money on a pool and you have homeowners cleaning up after your electricians. In general, I think there is an overarching lack of professionalism in this industry from what I can tell - maybe not with all pool builders but I'm speaking about my experience. Every night after a crew leaves, I go out and walk around the pool cleaning up plastic bottles, bent rebar, or any other trash that was left behind by that crew. I've resorted to putting a trashcan out back and still have to clean up trash in my yard. There's still a giant pile of 3/4" rock in my backyard that I have no idea what it will be used for or who will haul it away if it goes unused.

On another note - they did throw in a new remote for the prologic system that is pretty cool looking. I will take a picture of it later, but here's a link to it: AquaPod 2.0 | Hayward Residential and Commercial Pool Products Amazon reviews seem pretty good, although they are limited.