New pool installation advice

[PoolPlunging919]

Hello!

I recently posted on my city's subreddit for feedback and opinions on pool ownership and one very friendly responder recommended posting here to get any guidance or advice around quotes I've received and any considerations we may not have thought of yet. Appreciate any input you may have!

Current proposed size 14x22 with a spa bench and two seats on the deep end. We are looking for a plunge pool-type experience and something to hang around in - not something for doing laps or jumping into the deep end.

We will plumb/wire for a heater but are not purchasing one at this time, we're going to see how a season goes to consider how much use we'd get from it.

Originally was thinking the pool would be one depth across but they're recommending it slope so dirt/debree accumulates in one section. Would a robot vacuum take care of that concern? TIA!



Here's what's included:
1. Gunite structure
2. Engineered steel reinforcing throughout pool structure
3. Any standard pool shape and drafting of all blueprints
4. Normal excavation, rough grade, and clean up
5. 340 cartridge filter
6. 2.70 HP Variable Speed Jandy pump
7. All plumbing within 50’ of pool – 2” schedule 40 PVC plumbing
8. Two (2) return lines (plus jets on bench)
9. Two (2) bottom drains
10. As needed skimmers with leaf baskets
11. 6” band of water line tile – standard selections
12. 12” x 24” travertine (standard selections).
14. Building permits – Health Dept. permits
15. Lifetime structural warranty
16. Electrical bonding and electrical installation within 100’ (excluding additional panels)
17. Standard Pebble Finish Interior
18. Depth – up to 6’ depth.
19. Timeclock with freeze protection
20. Cleaning kit w/hose
21. Chemical balance at start-up
22. Three pool lights
RS-PS6 Controller w/ iAqualink
Fusion Salt Chlorinator

 

[Jimrahbe]

919,

Having the pool bottom sloped or not will not make any difference in how the dirt at the bottom is collected. Unless you have an in-floor cleaning system, which I do not recommend. A robot will have no problem cleaning the pool floor and walls. Nothing will clean your stairs or spa deck.

I always suggest two skimmers and 4 returns.. The extra cost is minimal and the pool will work better. The more debris you can skim off the top of the water, the less that will sink to the bottom of the pool.

A salt system is great, you just don't want to use the "fusion" part which adds metals to your water.

If you have a Jandy automation system you don't need a mechanical time clock.

Your VS pump and large cartridge filter is perfect when you have a saltwater pool.

I'm sure others will have some additional ideas and suggestions.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[kimkats]

Here is a link you might find helpful:

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Kim

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome again. Glad you posted in the construction forum with your detailed pool info.

Current proposed size 14x22 with a spa bench and two seats on the deep end. We are looking for a plunge pool-type experience and something to hang around in - not something for doing laps or jumping into the deep end.

I did rough calculations of 11,000 gallons. I took avg of 3.5ft to 6 ft.
But agree with Jim - you can have an all-same depth pool. A condo unit I lived at had 1 depth of 4.3ft. It was nice to float around. Cleaning with a robot or any cleaner will work fine.

RS-PS6 Controller w/ iAqualink
Fusion Salt Chlorinator

since you only have a pool (no spa) you just need the Pool Only AquaLink automation. The PS means Pool-Spa (or 2 bodies of water). Agree with Jim as well no need for the timeclock with Freeze protection. The AquaLink Automation has both features.

A SWCG should be rated 2x your pool volume. Unfortunately, Jandy only makes 2 models - AquaPure 700 rated to 12k gals and AquaPure 1400 rated to 40k gals. I have the latter model with a 15k gal pool.
Do not get the Fusion system as that adds some cost and you do not need the "fusion" canister as it adds copper to the water which you do not want.

You can ask the PB to quote Pentair equipment. They have a SWCG rated at 20k gals and 40k gals - either would be great. They also have a better automation system than Jandy (don't read this wrong - the Jandy AquaLink works fine (I have it) but the Pentair is more advanced for about the same price and since you are starting out new - then go for the better unit.
Please note - some PB's only supply one or the other type of equipment - some provide both - so ask. Also, a second quote by another PB may quote Pentair.

I also like having 2 skimmers and have each plumbed back individually to the equipment pad.

When you get down to the final selection of which PB - ask them to provide you specific model numbers for the critical equipment of pump, filter, heater, SWCG, Automation System, etc. That helps us guide you on if that is the right product to meet your needs.

 

[PoolPlunging919]

Great tips, thank you. The initial list was from their first quote, which we've since tweaked but we never got an updated quote, just the contract (we haven't signed yet). Originally it included a spa but we've opted not to. The contract does still list the PS Aqualink (maybe to account for the 4 returns we added to the bench?) so I will inquire about that as well as the Pentair. Both PB we got quotes from quoted Aqualink by default, but we've decided to go forward with the company that provided the contract, just a matter of working out the details.

919,

I always suggest two skimmers and 4 returns.. The extra cost is minimal and the pool will work better. The more debris you can skim off the top of the water, the less that will sink to the bottom of the pool.

A salt system is great, you just don't want to use the "fusion" part which adds metals to your water.

If you have a Jandy automation system you don't need a mechanical time clock.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I originally asked about the timeclock and they explained it kicks in based on temps to protect from frost, that a lot of people in this area don't close their pools. But by having the automation system you're saying that's not needed? I'll be reading up more on kimkats link this weekend.

 

[kimkats]

Don't sign anything until everything is in writing as far as your changes and tweaks.

 

[HermanTX]

I originally asked about the timeclock and they explained it kicks in based on temps to protect from frost, that a lot of people in this area don't close their pools. But by having the automation system you're saying that's not needed?

The AquaLink automation has it own software to set a schedule for the pump and it also has a freeze protection mode, that you can either turn on or off. I am concerned that you PB does not understand automation. Also, AquaLink makes a Pool & Spa kit and a Pool Only. Maybe because you initially requested a spa they have kept the P&S kit. See this brochure on Jandy.com

https://cdn.fluidrausa.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/sl/54107_sl.pdf?rev=df83f002054b40f1a7afcdf0d9bb06df?force=1

Prior to signing the contract - ask for specific model numbers of pump, filter, SWCG, automation. Since it appears you are going with Jandy equipment I would get the AquaPure 1400 SWCG as it would give you more flexibility in the settings than the AP700. It is a minor cost increase. Do not get the Jandy Tru-Clear SWCG as that product has had problems.

Also ensure you get the iAquaLink 3.0 antenna that will connect your syst‘em to the internet which you then can access via phone app or on a PC.

 

[HermanTX]

One other point - since you are about to sign a contract. What are the payment details? Some PB push to have 100% payment prior to plaster to pool. That is unacceptable. Try to hold 10% back till pool is full of water and your punch list is completed. There are always small details that the PB leave to the end and hope they do not need to complete. By holding money that gives you some leverage.

I have 2 people that used the same PB and both were able to hold money back. One was $10k and other $5k. The PB never did finish all the tasks and walked away on both. The owners had to hire contractor to finish some plumbing and hooking up a waterfall. So you just never know what may or may not be finished. Holding some money may give you some leverage or at least the funds if you have to subcontract on your own.

 

[PoolPlunging919]

Thanks, I've sent an email asking for model numbers, will post back here once I have them. Confirmed the contract states 3 returns, plus we have 4 returns on the bench connected to an air blower to create a spa feature - will those 4 fill the need of a 4th return, since they essentially are returns if we don't turn on the blower?

Payment terms are a small .5% deposit on signing to initiate the permitting process, 40% due at excavation, 55% due at concrete installation, remainder due at finish application. I will see if that can be adjusted to have a final % due at completion of a punch list.

 

[Jimrahbe]

919,

The world will not end if you only have three returns.

If your spa jets have water flowing, even when the blower is off that should work fine.

I have three pools. One only has two returns, one has three returns, and the one at my house has 4 returns. The one at my house works the best, but the others work just fine.. I would not let only having three returns, turn into a big deal.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

The world will not end if you only have three returns.

+1, and +1000 for a rectangle with no nooks, crannies or bulges for the flow to navigate.

I get by just fine with 2 pointing the long way on a 40ft rectangle.

The slightest breeze from the wrong direction will make it all moot anyway.

 

[PoolPlunging919]

Haha good to know the pool will not fall apart with fewer returns

Builder agreed the aqualink covers the automation/freeze protection and the timeclock can be removed. It seems like the list of included equipment was a templated quote list that maybe wasn't customized, or that they have a base package that can be configured, without explicitly saying so.

For the Aqualink PS vs Pool only, they confirmed the RSPS6 is offered at the same cost, they could put the rd-p4 but the 6 will give two extra low voltage plug ins.

Regarding the fusion swc, he stated it is what they use on all their pools (and what was offered on the other bid as well) but if we want another salt chlorinator instead, I can, just have to determine which one and request it. Same with Pentair equipment.

Confirmed the following models in the current contract:

FSOFT700 NATURE2 FUSION SOFT CELL KIT W/MINERAL SYSTEM ASSY FOR 12K GAL

ePump 2.7 HP Variable-Speed Pump
#VSSHP270AUT

Jandy ProSeries CV340 Pool Filter

 

[HermanTX]

FSOFT700 NATURE2 FUSION SOFT CELL KIT W/MINERAL SYSTEM ASSY FOR 12K GAL

Ask for the AquaPure 1400. The 700 is rated for 12k gals but it is recommended to have 2x pool volume. So while the 1400 model may appear to be oversized, you will actually have more flexibility in its settings.
If you have to get the fusion system, then remove the mineral cartridge. It will work fine without the cartridge and you will not be putting copper into your pool.

If PB can supply Pentair, then ask him for a quote for the Intellicenter Automation, IntelliFlo pump, Cartridge Filter and the IC20 or IC30 IC40 SWCG.

 

[mknauss]

IC30 SWCG

There is no IC30. Only IC20, 40, or 60.

 

[HermanTX]

There is no IC30. Only IC20, 40, or 60.

Thanks - Typo. Made correction

 

[PoolPlunging919]

It took some time to get this raised to the installers (we've been focused on getting the patio and fence installers lined up), and after asking about the Aquapure 700/1400 and Pentair equipment, they came back with this:
They have access to the Aquapure 700 but were informed it's being discontinued.

He quoted new equipment for everything with the IC 40 (unclear what that all entails, I'm guessing all relevant equipment swapped to pentair). The equipment cost difference being ~$2k, but they are recommending that for all of this to run most efficiently we upsize plumbing from 2” to 2.5” for the entire project, stating this will allow for minimally restricted flow and avoid reducers on that specific equipment set, adding~$4,500 to the project. These changes are almost 10% of the cost which we were already pretty tight on budget, even more so with fence and patio being more expensive than expected so we aren't sure if we'll be taking this additional cost on.

 

[HermanTX]

He quoted new equipment for everything with the IC 40 (unclear what that all entails, I'm guessing all relevant equipment swapped to pentair). The equipment cost difference being ~$2k, but they are recommending that for all of this to run most efficiently we upsize plumbing from 2” to 2.5” for the entire project, stating this will allow for minimally restricted flow and avoid reducers on that specific equipment set, adding~$4,500 to the project.

It would be best to get clarity regarding what Pentair equipment the PB is quoting or will supply.
The upgrade to 2.5 inch pipe is strange that he is basing it on a change in equipment. While 2.5 inch pipe may be better on the suction it would be best if the PB can give you specific details such as what is the flow speed they calculated in the pipes.
Good article by one of our experts

Maximum Flow Rates for PVC Pipes

I have long been skeptical of the flow limits placed upon PVC pipes. Many web sites would post arbitrary limits ranging from 5 ft/sec up to 10 ft/sec indicating that it is not a good idea to exceed these limits but none would explain why or what would happen if you did exceed these limits. I am...

www.troublefreepool.com

Has there been other changes that maybe is not identified?