New Pool - evaluating providers

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B

Beyond_Everglades

Member
Mar 9, 2021
10
Miami, Florida
Pool Size
1
Hi!

I'm new to the forum, so hello to all!

We've been thinking of building a pool in our backyard, and now we are moving towards it. We know nothing about pools, beyond how to swim in them.

We evaluated different providers, mainly using references and reviews, to avoid companies that could bring issues down the road, and try to selected reputable, stable companies. We are now with two quotes, but it isn't easy to understand what is better, and they have a significant budget difference.

I'm attaching quotes A (the first, white and black one) and B (the one with the blue boxes). Please ask me if anything is missing, I tried to copy as much as I can. I'd love to read comments and advice from your experience and perspective on each offering.

We can, hopefully, be happy pool owners at some point in 2021.

Cheers!
Beyond the Everglades, South Florida

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Based on those, I would guess that Builder A is significantly cheaper? 6" shell would be the absolute minimum. We can probably get away with it in our Florida sandy soils, but I like the 10" walls from Builder B better... if you want to go with Builder A, I would ask for the pricing to go to an 8" shell.

Around here, I have seen them done with 6" and it's probably fine, see if they offer a shell warranty just for piece of mind.

You want a variable speed pump

Filters are personal preference, cartridge is the most simple, take it out, hose it off, put it back. Replace the cartridge every few years. The DE will require backwashing and replacing the media every so often.

Builder A is saying that you are getting power from your main panel to the equipment pad. That seems odd, but make sure you have it covered in your budget.

Make sure your salt cell is rated for 2x of your pool volume.

Good luck with your build. I would also get schedules from these builders to help with your evaluation. I don't think anyone is really going to be holding a schedule these days, but it may give you a general idea on your timeline.
 
I agree with Orlando Bull, A has to be the cheaper one. Missing information...I would put it next to B's and ask about anything that isn't on A's...like, what plaster do you get? What decking? Are you getting a Salt system? Any automation? Are you going to have to pay extra for permits with A? What is the pay schedule? Neither one says what size pool is included. What depth is included? How much more for deeper if you want? For B, I would ask about the circulation system...40 jets seems like a lot...maybe an opportunity to save some money here?

Are you getting a screen? If so, are the pb's pouring the footers?

What about required alarms or fences?
 
OrlandoBull said:
Based on those, I would guess that Builder A is significantly cheaper? 6" shell would be the absolute minimum. We can probably get away with it in our Florida sandy soils, but I like the 10" walls from Builder B better... if you want to go with Builder A, I would ask for the pricing to go to an 8" shell.

Around here, I have seen them done with 6" and it's probably fine, see if they offer a shell warranty just for piece of mind.

You want a variable speed pump

Filters are personal preference, cartridge is the most simple, take it out, hose it off, put it back. Replace the cartridge every few years. The DE will require backwashing and replacing the media every so often.

Builder A is saying that you are getting power from your main panel to the equipment pad. That seems odd, but make sure you have it covered in your budget.

Make sure your salt cell is rated for 2x of your pool volume.

Good luck with your build. I would also get schedules from these builders to help with your evaluation. I don't think anyone is really going to be holding a schedule these days, but it may give you a general idea on your timeline.
Click to expand...
Thank you O.Bull, loved the guidance.

Not sure if they have 10" walls; I understood they build a "reinforcement wing" of 10", then they do less. Still, the proposal does not specify how much. I'll check on the 8" and the warranty, sound advice.

What is a variable speed pump? Why is it better?

On the Filters, Cartridge vs. no cartridge, any recommendation?

And on the power, it is usual for the builders to do the electrical work and connect the equipment to the pad?

Cheers,
 
TampaKathy said:
I agree with Orlando Bull, A has to be the cheaper one. Missing information...I would put it next to B's and ask about anything that isn't on A's...like, what plaster do you get? What decking? Are you getting a Salt system? Any automation? Are you going to have to pay extra for permits with A? What is the pay schedule? Neither one says what size pool is included. What depth is included? How much more for deeper if you want? For B, I would ask about the circulation system...40 jets seems like a lot...maybe an opportunity to save some money here?

Are you getting a screen? If so, are the pb's pouring the footers?

What about required alarms or fences?
Click to expand...
Hi Kathy,

Yes, A is the cheaper one. It's missing a lot of info compared to B; I'm doing as you mentioned, asking for the details I have on the other one.

About the jets, It sounded a lot to me (even not knowing anything about pools; I did this math: it is a 15x35 give or take pool, and 40 is one very 2.5 ft, that sounds more like a whirlpool. Or am I wrong?

About the screen, no, no screen for the BY. I will do a fence with another provider. No alarm system, but I have a couple of young children. How does it work? I need to read about it

Cheers
S
 
@Beyond_Everglades Welcome to TFP and you will gets lots of help on any issue as already demonstrated by those have responded.

Can you provide a sketch or layout of your pool as that is helpful for all of us to visualize.

Will you have a spa connected to the pool? You mention 35x 15 so I estimated depths from 3.5 to 5.5 feet which gives an estimated volume of close to 18,000 gals (excludes any spa that you may have).

A variable speed pump will be mandatory come June 2021 so not sure why PB suggested a 2 speed pump other than trying to deplete his inventory. The variable speed is allows to be more energy efficient and you can change the speed of the pump throughout the day to maintain circulation of the pool. Do not get a 2 speed or a single speed pump.

Also, ask PB to include 2 skimmers. With nearly 18,000 gals, having skimmers at opposite ends will help on trapping the surface debris regardless of wind direction. Have these 2 skimmers plumbed independently back to the equipment pad i.e. 2 separate pipes - not connected in series.

A cartridge filter is way easier to maintain so get the largest you can afford. The first PB offered 200 sq ft, ask to go to next size up to between 300 to 400 sq ft. It will reduce your time between cartridge filter cleaning.

Your electrical panel will be either a dedicated panel (called a subpanel) from your main house electrical box or it will be integrated into your automation system. Either will have a series of breakers to power your pump, heater (if you get one), your lights.

With regard to drain - ask the the PB about a channel drain rather than what they quoted. It is also compliant to prevent entrapment but a lays flat on the pool bottom.

With regard to a cleaner - consider a robot so you do not need a dedicated cleaner line. It will be powered by electricity so you need a plug near the pool (but placed according to your local code). This is much simpler.

Hope this clarifies some of your questions.
 
HermanTX said:
@Beyond_Everglades Welcome to TFP and you will gets lots of help on any issue as already demonstrated by those have responded.

Can you provide a sketch or layout of your pool as that is helpful for all of us to visualize.

Will you have a spa connected to the pool? You mention 35x 15 so I estimated depths from 3.5 to 5.5 feet which gives an estimated volume of close to 18,000 gals (excludes any spa that you may have).

A variable speed pump will be mandatory come June 2021 so not sure why PB suggested a 2 speed pump other than trying to deplete his inventory. The variable speed is allows to be more energy efficient and you can change the speed of the pump throughout the day to maintain circulation of the pool. Do not get a 2 speed or a single speed pump.

Also, ask PB to include 2 skimmers. With nearly 18,000 gals, having skimmers at opposite ends will help on trapping the surface debris regardless of wind direction. Have these 2 skimmers plumbed independently back to the equipment pad i.e. 2 separate pipes - not connected in series.

A cartridge filter is way easier to maintain so get the largest you can afford. The first PB offered 200 sq ft, ask to go to next size up to between 300 to 400 sq ft. It will reduce your time between cartridge filter cleaning.

Your electrical panel will be either a dedicated panel (called a subpanel) from your main house electrical box or it will be integrated into your automation system. Either will have a series of breakers to power your pump, heater (if you get one), your lights.

With regard to drain - ask the the PB about a channel drain rather than what they quoted. It is also compliant to prevent entrapment but a lays flat on the pool bottom.

With regard to a cleaner - consider a robot so you do not need a dedicated cleaner line. It will be powered by electricity so you need a plug near the pool (but placed according to your local code). This is much simpler.

Hope this clarifies some of your questions.
Click to expand...
Hi @HermanTX

Thank you for the comments. I see how the community comes forward to help. I attached the sketch above, and the depth will probably change to 3' to 5'. I'll add a separate comment here about it, as I have questions.

I'll ask about all the lines, great insight. What is your take on the 6" wall? Should it be more than that?
On quote B, they have eight returns and 40 jets; does that sound normal or a marketing gimmick?

On the robot vs. the cleaner line. Should it be wise to keep the cleaner line just in case? I have not dipped my toes in the cleaning yet, so I have no point of reference to the traditional vacuum line vs. a robot.

Best,
B.E.
 

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Another question/doubt:

The original idea was to have something of a 3.5' to 6' in depth. But we are considering two things now:

If we go beyond 5', we need to do a reinforcement or sealing in our area because of the phreatic level. Not too expensive, but it adds up.
The second is about usability. I'm 5'11", and my wife is 5'5". Maybe 5' will do better so we have a foot to the floor all the time and can use the whole pool to play, not only swim.

Do you have any takes on depth? Recommendations and thoughts? We don't want to pick the wrong one; depth is unfixable and has a huge impact on the use, right?

Cheers
B.E.
 
TampaKathy said:
Think about how you plan to use the sunshelf...if you want to put 2 lounge chairs on there 6 feet probably won't be wide enough and the drawing doesn't say what the other dimension is...is it 6 ft x 6ft?
Click to expand...
The original idea (architectural, not from a pool builder) was a 5'x10' sunshelf. See attached. But they came back with the stairs access there.

is 5x10 a good size? if so, where should we put the stairs?

1615733411111.png
 
Beyond_Everglades said:
Another question/doubt:

The original idea was to have something of a 3.5' to 6' in depth. But we are considering two things now:

If we go beyond 5', we need to do a reinforcement or sealing in our area because of the phreatic level. Not too expensive, but it adds up.
The second is about usability. I'm 5'11", and my wife is 5'5". Maybe 5' will do better so we have a foot to the floor all the time and can use the whole pool to play, not only swim.

Do you have any takes on depth? Recommendations and thoughts? We don't want to pick the wrong one; depth is unfixable and has a huge impact on the use, right?

Cheers
B.E.
Click to expand...
I would be cautious with a minimum depth of just 3ft. The norm is 3.5ft. Going to 5ft in deep end is fine. Mine is 5.5ft however I have more of a sport pool with 3.5ft on one end that quickly goes to 4ft then to 5.5 in middle and back to 4ft on the other end. So the 5 to 5.5ft is comfortable as most guests and ourselves just float around
One item to take note of is is how your PB refers to depth. There has been other posts on the forum where depth is consider from coping level to bottom of pool. So you lose 4-5 inches of water depth because your water line is at the mid point of your water tile. And mid point of water tile to coping can be somewhere between 3-5 inches. So discuss with your PB that you want to contract for a water depth of "x". Also ensure to read your contract because some PB also include a clause stating dimensions can be +/- "x" inches. All of this is critical especially if your are going with a max water depth of 5ft i.e. you could end up with less than 5 ft of real water depth.

Also with a 35x14 size, I would recommend having 2 skimmers. Have them at opposite sides of pool.

Beyond_Everglades said:
On quote B, they have eight returns and 40 jets; does that sound normal or a marketing gimmick
Click to expand...
This is real confusing. You do not even have a spa so have no idea what "40 jets" are. Also, 8 returns sounds like an overkill especially when the other PB stated 3 returns. You probably need to have a F2F discussion to understand what all of this means.
Beyond_Everglades said:
What is your take on the 6" wall? Should it be more than that?
Click to expand...
I assume you mean the depth of the baja shelf. The minimum is 6 inches as remember you have a 3-5inch air gap from coping to water level then the 6" water depth so that is a 9-11" step down. Other constructions on this forum have gone anywhere from 6 to 18inches. If you go deeper some have considered a half step so you do not have a 18inch step onto the baja shelf. There is no standard so if you have a friend that has a pool with a shelf, it would be best to go step into it.
 
HermanTX said:
I would be cautious with a minimum depth of just 3ft. The norm is 3.5ft. Going to 5ft in deep end is fine. Mine is 5.5ft however I have more of a sport pool with 3.5ft on one end that quickly goes to 4ft then to 5.5 in middle and back to 4ft on the other end. So the 5 to 5.5ft is comfortable as most guests and ourselves just float around
One item to take note of is is how your PB refers to depth. There has been other posts on the forum where depth is consider from coping level to bottom of pool. So you lose 4-5 inches of water depth because your water line is at the mid point of your water tile. And mid point of water tile to coping can be somewhere between 3-5 inches. So discuss with your PB that you want to contract for a water depth of "x". Also ensure to read your contract because some PB also include a clause stating dimensions can be +/- "x" inches. All of this is critical especially if your are going with a max water depth of 5ft i.e. you could end up with less than 5 ft of real water depth.

Also with a 35x14 size, I would recommend having 2 skimmers. Have them at opposite sides of pool.


This is real confusing. You do not even have a spa so have no idea what "40 jets" are. Also, 8 returns sounds like an overkill especially when the other PB stated 3 returns. You probably need to have a F2F discussion to understand what all of this means.

I assume you mean the depth of the baja shelf. The minimum is 6 inches as remember you have a 3-5inch air gap from coping to water level then the 6" water depth so that is a 9-11" step down. Other constructions on this forum have gone anywhere from 6 to 18inches. If you go deeper some have considered a half step so you do not have a 18inch step onto the baja shelf. There is no standard so if you have a friend that has a pool with a shelf, it would be best to go step into it.
Click to expand...
Thanks @HermanTX !

The 6” question is about the shell walls, the quote A specify 6” width and some commented earlier it may be too little width? Contractor says code in Florida is 4” minimum, and 6” is enough, but
 
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