New pool build with contemporary grotto

[ttonn]

New pool build/owners here and are working on getting the contract in place. Have a things to work out before we go forward, mainly with the grotto. Here is a picture of the design. As pictured, the grotto is showing travertine stairs and top decking. In the contract it is shown as spray decking for the stairs and grotto top. When mentioned to the PB they said the travertine would be too slippery and not be recommended but they would include it if we desire. Do you all have any recommendations for which direction to go. For pure cosmetics, I would like travertine. If the coping is travertine around the pool, I dont see how the stairs and top would be any different.

Is there anything else in the equipment that seems off or anything else to be looked at? Thanks in advance!

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

A few things:

• What model IntelliFlo pump?
• A tab chorinator using Trichlor is not a good long term way to chlorinate your pool. Consider a SWG even though Texas pool builders bad mouth them.
• Consider the modern IntelliCenter rather then the 20+ year old EasyTouch + ScreenLogic. Would you buy a 20+ year old car now?
• A 6' deep pool is not a diving pool. How will you keep people from diving off the top of your grotto? I see the stairs to the top of the grotto being a safety hazard.

Some information that may be helpful during your build:

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair MasterTemp Heaters - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Intellichlor ICXX SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Plaster Installation and Maintenance - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[kimkats]

I like your design. A good swim lane with lots of seating and hangin out areas.

I think you need to rethink the depths:
-3' is too shallow for a good crawl stroke. You will scrape your knuckles on the floor. Think about at least 3'5" or even better 4'.
-I agree with @ajw22 on the 6' at the grotto. The steps are just inviting people to jump/dive from it. 8' is the recommended diving depth. 6' depth FROM THE SIDE OF THE pool is doable for cannon balls. From the top of the grotto someone will get their bum/tailbone hurt and hurt bad if they try to cannon ball from the grotto.

Steps to the grotto is far different than the coping on the side of the pool. Steps are meant to be used as a walkway where the coping is more of a sitting spot with some stepping on but no real walk done on it.

 

[.ben]

My non-expert opinion is that the grotto is a significant safety concern. I would strongly consider deepening the pool or eliminating the grotto.

In Houston you definitely want a SWG.

3’ shallow depth is on too shallow. 3.5’ should be the minimum but I’d consider 3.75’

 

[ttonn]

Welcome to TFP.

A few things:

• What model IntelliFlo pump?
• A tab chorinator using Trichlor is not a good long term way to chlorinate your pool. Consider a SWG even though Texas pool builders bad mouth them.
• Consider the modern IntelliCenter rather then the 20+ year old EasyTouch + ScreenLogic. Would you buy a 20+ year old car now?
• A 6' deep pool is not a diving pool. How will you keep people from diving off the top of your grotto? I see the stairs to the top of the grotto being a safety hazard.

Some information that may be helpful during your build:

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair MasterTemp Heaters - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Intellichlor ICXX SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Plaster Installation and Maintenance - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks for the links and advice, I'll be going through them.. Why do you say trichlor is not good long term? Is it due to cost effectiveness or product effectiveness?

 

[ttonn]

I like your design. A good swim lane with lots of seating and hangin out areas.

I think you need to rethink the depths:
-3' is too shallow for a good crawl stroke. You will scrape your knuckles on the floor. Think about at least 3'5" or even better 4'.
-I agree with @ajw22 on the 6' at the grotto. The steps are just inviting people to jump/dive from it. 8' is the recommended diving depth. 6' depth FROM THE SIDE OF THE pool is doable for cannon balls. From the top of the grotto someone will get their bum/tailbone hurt and hurt bad if they try to cannon ball from the grotto.

Steps to the grotto is far different than the coping on the side of the pool. Steps are meant to be used as a walkway where the coping is more of a sitting spot with some stepping on but no real walk done on it.

Appreciate the input. Makes sense on the steps vs. coping for the travertine. Will look at making the shallow end deeper to 3.5' for swimming. Still looking at options on the grotto and path forward.

 

[kimkats]

If you want a grotto because it would be neat to sit in and enjoy that way then make it where there are NO stairs/steps/anyway to get on top of it.

 

[ajw22]

Thanks for the links and advice, I'll be going through them.. Why do you say trichlor is not good long term? Is it due to cost effectiveness or product effectiveness?

The accumulation of CYA eventually makes your water chemistry not manageable. In your area eventually is less then a year of use. Then you need to drain a significant amount of your pool to lower your CYA. And then the cycle repeats.

Read TriChlor - Further Reading

How to Chlorinate Your Pool

Before chlorinating your pool, you should know these simple tips. Learn the best way to add chlorine to your pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[pjt]

I like the swim lane and seating areas. A few suggestions:

• As others have said, have a rethink on your depths. I'd suggest 4' for your shallow end. If there's going to be jumping from the grotto, commit to a true deep end. 6' is an awkward depth since it's too shallow for diving or jumping from an object, but it's too deep for people to stand. If there won't be jumping from the grotto, consider 5'.
• Travertine would look great. It's not slippery and it doesn't get hot. Consider porcelain pavers if it's in your budget.
• Install a heater bypass if your model of MasterTemp doesn't have one.
• Delete the tab feeder and get a SWG (IntelliChlor rated for at least twice the size of your pool).
• Replace the EasyTouch with IntelliCenter
• Think about a step to help swimmers transition from the main part of the pool to the sun shelf.

 

[ttonn]

Thanks for all the advice. We will be changing the shallow end to 4' and going deeper on the grotto side.

The pool will have three microbrite lights and one in the spa. Any recommendations on placement for the three lights? Would three on the sundeck side of the pool work best? Placing one in the grotto facing towards the house would probably not be recommended? Or would the 32' length of the pool be enough for a microbrite where it wouldn't be an issue?

For the spa seating, is there any recommendation on U shaped seating on three sides or square seating on all 4 sides as shown in the picture?

 

[pjt]

We will be changing the shallow end to 4' and going deeper on the grotto side.

That's great. I think you'll be very happy with that.

Any recommendations on placement for the three lights? Would three on the sundeck side of the pool work best? Placing one in the grotto facing towards the house would probably not be recommended?

Have them all face away from the house or main seating area.

For the spa seating, is there any recommendation on U shaped seating on three sides or square seating on all 4 sides as shown in the picture?

It's personal preference. I would recommend having slightly different seating depths on all the benches tough.

 

[kimkats]

Good move on the depth changes.

Light in the grotto=LOVE the idea. Get the smallest (warm light instead of bright light) one you can and have it put in the ceiling pointing down. You want it to glow instead of light it up like an airport.

Spa-I would also go with different seating heights.

 

[HermanTX]

Why do you say trichlor is not good long term? Is it due to cost effectiveness or product effectiveness?

You really need to consider a saltwater pool. The trichlor pucks will cause your CYA to steadily increase and by August, you be fighting algae because your chlorine levels will not be able to properly sanitize your pool water. If you do not want a saltwater pool then consider that you will be using liquid chlorine (LC) to sanitize your pool. LC does a better job of adding chlorine to your pool quickly and it does not add CYA to your pool.

IMO - I think the steps to the top of the grotto are a safety issue. There is no handrail. Can be accessed from both sides and what is behind it that if someone falls off backwards?

 

[Rich D]

Placing one in the grotto facing towards the house would probably not be recommended?

I would highly recommend a light in the grotto. These can be tricky to properly place. Even if you put them at the top pointing down you will still see the spot in the calm surface . I Have 2 light circuits in my grotto independent from all other lights. One is for the "spooky" cave affect that just back lights the cave walls and one is for when the waterfall is on to back light the waterfall. The water fall light needs to be fairly brite and behind the falls. I could not find a way to back light it without the light shining into the pool surface (see first pic). It works great when the falls are on but you want to be able to turn it off when the falls are not on so you do not see the reflection in the pool (see pics). The spooky lights need to shine on just the walls mostly pointing up and back and not at the pool surface.

 

[Rich D]

I would recommend 8' depth by the Grotto. The only way I enter the pool now is diving off the Grotto.

 

[ttonn]

Got another question on the grotto. It is a fairly small one, 8'x4'x2'. With only being 2' tall, and ceiling being ~6" thick, that would put ~18" of room between the ceiling and the coping. If a standard bench is on there 18" deep, that really only gives 36" of room from seat to ceiling. I'm 6'1" and sitting I'm just over 36" so clearly this won't work. What would be a reasonable height and headroom space for a grotto to be comfortable? I dont want to go too much deeper on the bench depth so people don't float away when sitting.

 

[kimkats]

I would look into getting a fridge box and playing with it. See what feels comfortable as far a head height and such. I am all about trying things out in real life as much as possible.

 

[ttonn]

We were able to prop up our breakfast table to get the bench depth and grotto height to line up with what we had. It was too short and increase the height of the grotto and steps. Thanks for the suggestions.

Waiting on HOA and permits and hopefully should be starting soon. Is there anything else that we might be missing based on the design?

How about the lighting depths? Pb stated they will be ~18" deep. Should these be higher up or does it not matter for microbrite lights as they can be installed with water in the pool?

In regards to waterline tile, we are looking at mosaic style 1x2 porcelain tiles. Some are smooth and some have a textured front to them. Does the textured front make a difference in regards to cleaning or anything we would need to worry about?

 

[kimkats]

If you keep your water balanced and wipe the waterline tile every once in a while it should not matter. I do love the textured ones!

 

[ttonn]

Still waiting on HOA before pool can start. Any one have suggestions on depth of the pool lights or any other suggestions?