New OB Peoria AZ

jcsmith

Active member
Nov 8, 2016
28
Peoria, AZ
Hello all,

First time pool owner and first time going through an owner build. So I feel like I'm already in over my head.

I'm doing an in ground build - 20'x40' with a 12'x14' baja area. I've attached the project sheet I submitted for my permit. I’ve cleared the land already (attached some pics), so now I’m working on trying to find a “pool layout sub”, finish my plumbing supply list (which I’m having issues completing), trying to calculate how much steel I need and find a “pool steel sub”, and finish my electrical supply list.

Notes:
144' Perimeter
960 Surface Area
~40k gallons
Pebble Sheen
Pentair 520 Cartage filter
Sta-Rite 3HP VS Pump (will run 8 x Deck Jets, 2x Bubblers, Slide, Electric actuator Valves)
2 Skimmers (180' run) Brand?
AWL 20' Run (no idea what AWL stands for)
2 Aerators
6 deck jets
Plumbing for Slide (87' Run)
Plumbing for 6 Deck Jets, 2 Bubblers, and Water Feature
Salt System
5 Returns?
6' Double Spring Diving Board
G-Force Slide
Hayward 400k BTU Heater
Suction Side Cleaner
2 LED Color Logic Lights
2 Removable Tables in Baja

150' Gas Run
30' gas run for fire pit
10' gas run for bbq

150' Electric Run
P144 linear ft Marbella Stone Cantilever
850 Marbella Stone Pavers

40' 5' wrought iron fencing, self-closing and latching gate

Equipment:
· Pentair 520 cartridge filter
· Hayward 400k BTU heater
o Electric to save money on gas?​
· Sta-Rite IntelliPro 3HP Variable Speed pump (Not SVRS)
o Booster needed?​
· Pentair EasyTouch | Single Body System | IC40 IntelliChlor System | Filter + 3 Circuits | 520593
o more than 3 circuits needed?​
· IntelliTouch Screen Logic Wireless Control
· 2 x Hayward Universal ColorLogic LED lights
· 2 x Brilliant Wonders LED Light Bubbler
· Jandy Valve actuators? How Many?
· Jandy Manual valves? Necessary? How Many?
· 2 x Venturi Skimmers
o Can these be used without an in-ground cleaning system?​
· LeafVac in line with Skimmers
· AVSC (anti-vortex Single Channel Safety Drain w/ Pebble Top cover)
o Single or dual inlet drain?​
· Zodiac MX8 Elite Suction cleaner
· 8 x aqua archs

I'm coming to the point where this all seems very overwhelming.

· I have questions on how to calculate how much steal I need – 3#?
o I’m looking over the engineering document and I’m pretty sure I can add all this up, any tips?​
· I cannot seem to find a “pool layout” sub for excavation, what should I be searching for?
· I cannot seem to find a “pool steel” sub for doing the actual layout of rebar.
· How do I calculate all the plumbing and parts required? What size pipe? Should the sub-contractor plumber be able to do all this for me?
· Any tips on the electric supply list for the two lights and pumps for the water feature. Should I just leave this up to the sub?

Thanks in advance for any advice. I’ve finished my 1400 sq foot basement with full bath, electric, plumbing, etc. and this seems way more complicated.
 

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kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
48,151
Tallahassee, FL
FUN times! A new pool to build! That back yard is just screaming for one!

I would not do any more work until you have found all of your subs. Once you find one sub ask them who they would use to for x and z work and work your way through the list from there. They all know each other and know who does good work. If you offer to pay in cash you might be a better price and faster work BUT make sure you get a signed receipt!

Kim:kim:
 

Just-a-PB

In The Industry
Mar 24, 2011
406
Scottsdale, AZ
Make sure you use Licensed subs. You have zero protection if you do not.
Out here the subs don't cross paths that much, so they don't all know each other. The O.B type subs might, just because they get asked the question all the time.

As far as your equipment, use all one brand, I would recommend Pentair for it all.
Starite is the same company, only real thing different is some of their filters.
Warranty period is longer all with one.
PM me if you need any help with that, I am in Scottsdale.
 

xyz

Gold Supporter
Sep 8, 2016
641
Escondido/CA
Given easytouch, I'd suggest the popular (and really nice!) intelliflow VS pump. Integrates seamlessly with easytouch and screenlogic.

Also, get the IC60.

1) it will last longer
2) It's long term economics beat every other SWG
3) you will have more flexibility as to how you run your pump because you won't need to run it as long.

As Brian says, if there were an IC100 I'd get that!

finally, I'm biased to DE filters. The water is just a touch more crystal, and with the newer "Quad" DEs from Pentair, they have almost all the benefits of a cartridge filter (easier to clean, and very low flow friction to save you electric bills). I'd suggest the Quad DE100 given your large pool volume.
 

daddymack

Silver Supporter
Jul 20, 2016
325
Las Vegas
If you know who your excavator is, ask them about rebar. Or talk to your gunite person (they want a good rebar person, because they typically guarantee their shell for life or just short thereof)... either of those subs usually know the good rebar guys. I had several to choose from that way.

And your plumbing guy will figure it out and their price usually includes all the piping. Just be sure you specify the sizes (i.e. 2" or 2.5"). In Vegas, they will even let you use their wholesale account to buy your equipment so you get the 3 year guarantee.
 

jcsmith

Active member
Nov 8, 2016
28
Peoria, AZ
Thanks for the information. I started off emailing excavators and searched the internet for others. They were all willing to provide referrals. The excavators either had a layout person or did the layout themselves. They started excavating on Friday, however unfortunately it's going to be a hard dig. They got about 1-2 feet down before hitting solid rock.

Here is my updated equipment list. Thanks for the advice:

Quantity Item Description
1 Paramount Cannister | 004-152-4516-00
1 Pentair EasyTouch | Pool and Spa System | IC60 IntelliChlor System | Filter + 7 Circuits | 521150
2 WATERWAYS 540-5300 RENEGADE SKIMMER 2" SLIP VENTURI WHITE
4 SR Smith 6" or 4" Universal Anchor Plastic | 1.90" OD | AS-100P
1 SR Smith Cantilever Jump Stand and Frontier III Board Complete | 6' Radiant White with White Tread | 68-209-5962
1 SuperPro Inground Automatic Water Leveler White Lid | Accepts 1", 1.5", 2" Inlet into Pool | 25504-000-000
1 Hayward Safety Vacuum Lock Wall Fitting White | W400BWHP
5 AquaStar Three-Piece Directional Eyeball Fitting 1-1/2" MPT White | 8101
2 Jandy 24V Valve Actuator JVA 180 Degree | 2444 4424
1 Zodiac Cyclonic Leaf Catcher | CLC500
1 Zodiac MX8T Elite Suction Pool Cleaner | MX8EL
2 Pentair American Products Pool Niche Large Plastic for Concrete Pools | 79206700
6 Crystal Fountains Deck Level Stream Jet | WMD-100
2 Brilliant Wonders LED Light Bubbler | CMP-J Style Gunite Unit | 100' Cord 2-Wire | 25503-100-000
1 Intermatic 300W | 120V to 12V Transformer | PX300
1 Pentair Intellibrite COLOR Pool Light for Inground Pools | LED 12V 50' Cord 5G Color | 601011
1 Pentair Intellibrite COLOR Pool Light for Inground Pools | LED 12V 150 ft Cord 5G Color | 601013
1 Pentair Screenlogic Interface & Wireless Connection Kit for EasyTouch & IntelliTouch Control Systems | 522104
1 Custom Molded Products | 2" SCH80 CPVC Union Male Adaptor | Set of Two | 21063-200-000
1 Pentair IntelliFloXF Variable Speed Pump 3HP Max | Rotary Keypad Control | 022055
1 Pentair MasterTemp HD Low NOx Pool Heater - Electronic Ignition - Cupro Nickel - Natural Gas - 400,000 BTU HD - 460805
1 Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter | 520 Sq. Ft. | 160332
1 Inter-fab G-Force 2 Pool Slide | 360 Degree Turn | Desert Tan | G4C-T

I've attached some updated pics. They still have 3 feet deeper to go on the deep end, but it's coming along. Overall I'm glad I'm doing it myself, but I'm not seeing the 30-35% savings on a OB. Oh well, I'm still saving a little money.

Thanks for the advice! Let me know if you have any other tips.

Unfortunately it wont let me upload more pictures and I can't seem to remove the other ones. So here's one of them using the jackhammer.
IMG_1442.jpg
 

xyz

Gold Supporter
Sep 8, 2016
641
Escondido/CA
More pictures!! We like pics.

Also...

1) That Pentair part number seems a little strange. Did you mean VS?
2) checkout the Quad DE filter. Most of the advantages of a cartridge filter, and mot of the advantages of a DE filter.
3) My neighbors are jealous of my RayPac heater (they have the Pentair).
 

jcsmith

Active member
Nov 8, 2016
28
Peoria, AZ
Thanks! With little kids in the house I didn't want to mess around with DE. I may upgrade in the future but I'll be happy enough with cartridge since I don't know any better. :) I stuck with mostly Pentair for the 3 year warranty. I know there are better out there but didn't want to mix match if I didn't have to.

Does anybody support gas heating with electricity to save money on the price of gas?
 

Esiebert7625

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2014
63
East Texas
You have a basement in AZ? Dont see too many of those. Gas heating with electric? Do you mean a heat pump or something? My 400k btu heater wasnt too bad cost wise and I like the water really warm around 88, you wont need it all that much in the summer and my sw gas bill was pretty reasonable. Even when I briefly heated it up in the winter for a few days it wasnt too bad.

Might check out these links comparing pool heater costs

Heat Pump Swimming Pool Heaters | Department of Energy
Gas Swimming Pool Heaters | Department of Energy
 

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jcsmith

Active member
Nov 8, 2016
28
Peoria, AZ
No, I don't have a basement. Not sure where you saw that? Thanks for the reply. Yes, I meant a heat pump.

The gas to heat up the water and a heat pump to keep the temp. Someone mentioned it to me but sounds like a pita. I plan on having mine heated all winter so I can use it year round.
 

jcsmith

Active member
Nov 8, 2016
28
Peoria, AZ
Here are a couple of updated pics. :)

The deep end is completed. The bigger excavator is sitting where the Baja shelf will be.





Digging should be completed Friday with all forms in place. I'll add some additional pictures after they've completed.

Next plumbing and steel. I'm waiting for my equipment order to arrive which should be here in probably two weeks!
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
48,151
Tallahassee, FL
THAT is a deep end! WOW!

Talk about tight! I bet everyone was holding their breath as the digger was driven through that area!

Kim:kim:
 

setsailsoon

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
3,869
Stuart/FL
Pool Size
12800
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-30 Plus
Thanks! With little kids in the house I didn't want to mess around with DE. I may upgrade in the future but I'll be happy enough with cartridge since I don't know any better. :) I stuck with mostly Pentair for the 3 year warranty. I know there are better out there but didn't want to mix match if I didn't have to.

Does anybody support gas heating with electricity to save money on the price of gas?

JC,

Gas heat vs electric depends on a lot of variables including personal preference. Generally electric can be more efficient especially at climates like yours. But the most efficient does not always mean the cheapest. Often gas prices are so low compared to electric costs they offset lower efficiency. To determine this you need do the calculation based on your actual electric and gas costs and take into consideration the efficiency, water volume, desired water temp increase etc. Another factor is how quickly you want to increase the temp and if you want to heat the pool or just the spa. In my case I'm in S Florida and I use my pool almost every day year round. My pool is much smaller than yours and a 260,000 btu gas heater increases water temp about 3 deg per hour in the pool. The spa heats about 10 deg in 17 minutes. I also have a solar heater that give me 10 deg of heat 3/4 of the year. You may get even better in Az. With the new high efficiency gas heaters (83%), my gas vs electric cost plus initial equipment cost gas was an easy choice. Somebody that doesn't use the pool year round or is OK with lower temp water in winter or only uses spa in winter the decision could be completely different.

I hope this helps.

Chris
 

Just-a-PB

In The Industry
Mar 24, 2011
406
Scottsdale, AZ
Hard to tell in the photos, but did they dig out your light Niches?
Nasty dirt, expect to pay for an extra 3-5 yards of shotcrete as well on that one.

Also Loved this comment: "but I'm not seeing the 30-35% savings on a OB. Oh well, I'm still saving a little money. "
That's because we don't make anything close to that in the Valley:)
 

jcsmith

Active member
Nov 8, 2016
28
Peoria, AZ
It actually did rain. Ha! Oh well it's all dried up now. i was waiting for the pool equipment to arrive, which it finally did today. They also started the gas line install today. So gas will finish tomorrow and plumbing will start tomorrow. Hopefully steel on Saturday!

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Chris, that did help a little except I dont have all the info for the calculations. I could get it but at this point I'm not sure it matters. If i get the gas in and the bill explodes, I'll start doing some more calculations. I think it gets colder here Dec-March than in Florida, but I could be wrong. I don't use enough gas now to have a bill over $16 and most of that is an 'access fee'. So I'd have to check and see what temp I want (first pool so I don't know), if we really will use it year round (I plan to but it does get pretty cold during the winter), and what the cost will be to heat it based on temp (first year here in Phoenix also). It sounds like overall, it's a wash.

I appreciate the info. I'll let everyone know how it goes with the $$$.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, they dug out the light Niches and for the skimmers. Should be good to go! :)


Here are a few pics of the gas dig and the equipment (ignore the rest of the garage, still organizing). They're using 2.5"OD for the initial gas run to the heater and then 1"OD for the firepit and grill.



 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
48,151
Tallahassee, FL
Building a pool = mess............yard and garage and house LOL

It will all be done then you will not want to clean up because you will be IN the pool LOL

Kim:kim:
 

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