New liner & water coming tomorrow - look for guidance - Thx!

[hinesf4i]

Hello,

Moved into house last October with pool winterized. Had pool opened in mid-April and ended up using the in-line chlorinator (CL 220 with setting on 6 out of 7) with 3' tablets. I took a sample to a local pool store and the parameters they printed were all within range. Being new to this, I elected to have the Leslie's Pool school to learn more about how to take care of the pool. Essentially, they only explained the filter valve settings, when and how I need to backwash, how to clean skimmer basket and pump basket, to use about 3 tablets per week, adjusted the chlorinator to six out of seven (suggesting that should be "...about fine.), and that I should be good. They did NOT suggest anything like brushing, warning of CYA levels, or shocking etc. Therefore, I went until this week just using the tablets. I took the water to the store and my FC was supposedly 3.37, TC 3.43, phosphates 1602, and CYA was around 180. That's when I finally and fortunately found this website. About two days ago, I noticed a green algae spot about the size of a penny in the deep end with the water otherwise seemingly clear.

Also of note, the pool was installed in 2004 with the liner being replaced in 2014. In short, I did not seem to be losing much water (at the most, 1/12" on certain days), but the liner did have about three holes up near the coping (above the water line) and was badly faded. I had inquired about a new liner with a guy that has a good reputation in the area. The place he gets them from had an exact Imperial liner in stock (they claim they checked my liner serial number for fit) from someone that canceled their order, so I got what seems to be a good price and did not have to wait.

So, the liner and 26,000 gallons of trucked water comes tomorrow. I have read many of the articles and actually started a binder. This website and the contributors are amazing! I've learned so much from several hours of reading. With that said, I have a few questions and am looking for suggestions/advice:

Once the water is in, do I check TA, pH, & CYA (assuming CYA will be 0 to start)? From there, use the Pool Math calculator to Chlorine/CYA charts. However, since CYA will be low, how much liquid chlorine and frequency would you suggest to start? Only the Geek Chart as 0 in the table for CYA and it sounds like the chlorine won't stick around long without some CYA. I read about using the sock method and waiting a day after it dissolves. Any thoughts on what direction to head in from here?

I have the TF-100 with Speedstir & XL option coming later this week. I can purchase whatever tests you suggest to have on hand tomorrow, if needed.

Thank you! : )

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
Great job on getting a quality test kit and being prepared!
New water, test pH, TA, and CH.
Adjust pH into the 7's with acid.
Start 40 ppm CYA worth of stabilizer dissolving using the sock method.
Add 3ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine each evening. Once your CYA is dissolved, test for it after 24 hours or so. Use the FC/CYA Levels and keep your FC in the target range for your CYA. Expect to add 3-4 ppm of FC each day during swim season.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

 

[hinesf4i]

mknauss: Thank you so much for the quick response! I am very grateful. This is great!

May I just recap to ensure I understand everything?

Order:

1. Test pH, TA, & CH.

2. Adjust pH into the 7's using muriatic acid if needed (I read that for my pool 7.6-7.8 will be "ideal" and 7.2 is typical for SLAMing). If it's not already in the 8's, does this need to occur prior to adding the 3ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine each evening? I am assuming we need to initially add liquid chlorine during the evening due to the sunlight's effect and lack of built-up CYA.

3. Add 40 ppm CYA via sock until it has been dissolved for 24 hrs. Then test CYA level and utilize FC/CYA chart from there on forward ALONG with the other tasks from the TFP Basic Pool Care Schedule.

Again, many thanks! : )

 

[mknauss]

If it's not already in the 8's, does this need to occur prior to adding the 3ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine each evening?

Just adjust to the 7's at the start. Test it every few days to see if it changes. No need to focus on any specific pH number. If in the 7's, all is good.

 

[hinesf4i]

Great, thank you!

Just checking:

Using the Pool Math set at CYA set at Zero AND Current FC set at Zero AND Target FC set at 3ppm AND chlorine % set at 12, it looks like I use about 83oz per evening until I can test CYA.

Do those numbers seem reasonable for my 26,000 gal pool? Just checking and, again, thank you so much!

Kind regards

 

[mknauss]

If you have 12.5% bleach, then about 2/3 of the gallon jug will work. No need to get down to the ounce.

 

[hinesf4i]

Update:

• Liner went in smoothly
• Installer put new sand in the filter.
• Water transporters metered it to be 24,000 gallons to fill entire pool; they claim it's accurate
• Using TF-100 w/Speedstir:
  • pH 7.6
  • FC zero range
  • TA 250 (my wife helped me do this twice)
  • CH 750; my wife helped me do this three times. Could there be interference from copper etc.? It turned purple at 375ppm, but took until 750 to turn blue. Should I be using a different test?
• Another curve ball is that we are forecasted to get two inches of rain over the next few days.

So, I'm a little concerned about this rain and needing to take out some water during the middle of the adding/testing CYA process. I recall reading not to backwash etc. during the CYA process. Any thoughts/advice before I get rolling here with chemicals is appreciated? It's 91 and sunny here now.

Thank you! I greatly appreciate it!

 

[DorsalSpine]

Just add your CYA via the sock method and you are good to go. Don't worry about rain and that sort of thing. It takes a lot of rain to become an issue. You don't want it over the top of the skimmer for instance. That's a big pool so you will have plenty of time to make any adjustments due to the rain.

 

[hinesf4i]

Thanks, DorsalSpine. Appreciate it.

If we get what they're calling for, it will be over the top of the skimmer. I’ll keep updating here and I cannot thank everyone here enough.

 

[hinesf4i]

Update with Questions:

• I have approx 1/2-to-2/3 of the 8 pound container of CYA in the new water via sock method (which the entire 8 pounds would bring me to 40ppm).
• pH is about 7.8/7.9 now (was 7.6 Wednesday)
• TA is 220
• I didn't check CH today, but it was 750 Wednesday
• Note: we had rain and I released water via the waste to keep water from getting to high; the rain water raised pool about 1/4" and I then removed about a 1/4"; they were calling for very heavy storms overs night, which did not end up occurring but I just wanted a little wiggle room.

Because my pH is rising and my TA is 220, from what I'm reading on Pool School, it sounds like I should use Pool Math to determine how much acid to add.

1. Does this seem correct and would you adjust this at this point?
2. In pool math, it not only asks for TA, but also asks for Borate number. I am assuming I leave that value in Pool Math at zero. Is that correct?
3. Should I use muriatic acid or dry acid AND what is the best way to add this?
4. Note: I read about aeration; one of my returns has water bulging the surface but I only see a few actual bubbles at the surface.

Again, please know I greatly appreciate the input. Thank you!

 

[mknauss]

You can lower your pH to 7.6 if you wish.
Borates must be added. You have 0.
Muriatic acid. Pour slowly at the return with pump running. Brush the area if you wish.
Natural aeration will achieve your needs.

 

[hinesf4i]

Thank you!


Should I add acid first with Borates set to zero in Pool Math OR add the borates (assuming I'm shooting for 40ppm) and wait to test for borates and then use PoolMath to determine how much acid to use?

Appreciate it!

 

[hinesf4i]

After my last post, I found this article:

So you want to add borates to your pool--Why and How

A few folks asked for a sticky on this so here it is. If you just want to jump to how without the why look for the blue part of this post below! :wink: Several companies are selling sodium tetraborate pentahydrate as a pool additive under such names as Proteam's Supreme, Bioguard's Optimizer...

www.troublefreepool.com

It sounds, from that article, that I should get TA down to 80 and then have pH 7.4-7.6 PRIOR to adding the borates. Does that sound reasonable considering I'm at 220 for TA? Being new at this, I've never lowered a pool from 220 TA down via acid, so I don't know how long it would take and how reasonable it is. I'm up for trying suggestions. Thoughts? Thank you! Appreciate it! I love this website.

 

[mknauss]

I would suggest you not mess with borates until you know your pool water chemistry characteristics. At best borates are a fine tuning.

 

[bover907]

I wonder why your CH level is so high. Are you sure you're doing the test properly?

 

[hinesf4i]

Hi, bover907, and - thanks for your interest.

I am using the SpeedStir and my wife assisted. We carefully tried multiple times. Here are some further details that I wrote earlier:

• CH 750; my wife helped me do this three times. Could there be interference from copper etc.? It turned purple at 375ppm, but took until 750 to turn blue. Should I be using a different test?

Any thoughts based on those details? Is there a more accurate test for certain CH ranges or water with potential for things like copper etc.?

Many thanks! : )

 

[bover907]

I just can't see fill water that you paid to have trucked in, have too high a CH reading. I'm not sure if the TF-100, and TF-Pro (which I have) CH tests are the same, although I suspect they probably are. If your test is the same as mine, you're saying it turned to purple at 15 drops, and finally turned blue at 30 drops?

 

[hinesf4i]

I just can't see fill water that you paid to have trucked in, have too high a CH reading. I'm not sure if the TF-100, and TF-Pro (which I have) CH tests are the same, although I suspect they probably are. If your test is the same as mine, you're saying it turned to purple at 15 drops, and finally turned blue at 30 drops?

Hi,

Thanks. That’s exactly what happened. Our data that we wrote down says it turned purple at 15 and then turned blue 30. I read somewhere that you can complete the test a little differently if you suspect metals may be in the water (e.g., copper).

I read somewhere that if it turns purple, metals are present. So, they said to retest by adding five drops R-0012 first/swirl. Then add 10 drops R-0010/swirl, then add 3 drops R-0011/swirl, then add R-0012 counting the initial five drops PLUS additional drops until liquid blue/purple. I use the Speedstir. Has anybody tried it this way?

Thanks!

 

[bover907]

I have not. Sorry I don't have a better answer for you. Hopefully someone else can chime in.

 

[mknauss]

Has anybody tried it this way?

Yes. I do mine that way everytime. It still turns purple, but the transition to blue is more abrupt.