New Build West Michigan late planning stage. Is a 16x44 rectangle crazy?

#1
Hi all

I am seriously considering this size and shape
16x44 with 48 inch steel wall for a vinyl IG.

I am told that this will give me a good volleyball area with 20 ft of shallow while allowing the diving area that I would like in the deep end.

i have tried google image searching for similar configurations to see some pictures but I am not finding much of anything. The lack of results has me thinking I may be crazy.

Any thoughts, opinions or advice would be very appreciated.

PS I am getting a little hesitation from quoters with regard to the 48" panels. Are there problems or disadvantages with them? Our family tends toward the taller side and in my previous pool I did not particularly care for how shallow the 42 inch panels made things.

Thanks!

Todd
 

kimkats

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Jul 10, 2012
36,733
Tallahassee, FL
#2
Well I don't see how 48" walls will give you any diving. With diving you need at least 8' deep. The slope will also be very important as well. I guess you can have it some deeper but over half as much deeper?? Scary idea to me BUT that is just my gut based on nothing other than gut.

Kim:kim:
 
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#3
Hi Kim

20 ft is for shallow and then remaining 24 ft gets me to diving depth. Deep end will be 8 ft or more.

The 48 inch walls are to give me a bit deeper shallow than what I am told is standard with 42 inch walls.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
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Jul 10, 2012
36,733
Tallahassee, FL
#4
Sounds good to me. Do you have room for a L or T pool? The leg of the L or top of the T is the shallower area for games and such. I have seen that before. It is the best of both worlds if you have the yard space.

Kim:kim:
 
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#5
Sounds good to me. Do you have room for a L or T pool? The leg of the L or top of the T is the shallower area for games and such. I have seen that before. It is the best of both worlds if you have the yard space.

Kim:kim:
We have considered that for sure but the space we have somewhat limits those shapes.

Thank you for the suggestion. [emoji106]

Todd

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Swampwoman

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Apr 27, 2012
3,845
Grand Rapids, MI
#6
Greetings, Todd, and welcome to TFP.

I like your idea on wall height and don't for a minute think you're crazy ;).

Some of our local gr pool builders don't IME have a ton of imagination or experience sometimes ;) PM who you're working with and what kind of distribution they're working with. Latham's distributor, SPC in Kalamazoo, has widest access to packages with varying wall heights, I believe. I can check with an independent contractor I know who works with them. Sometimes builders are limited in choice based on what level or brand of distribution they're associated with. For my new liner, I went indie to get what I wanted when my OB couldn't get a particular pattern ;)

Also, have you considered composite panels instead of steel? Down the road...and I mean waaaay down the road, composite is a better combo if you decide to use SWG. Also, readily available in 48" for deeper shallow ends. Mine are composite and in mint condition, according to the team who changed my liner. Slightly more expensive and you have a lot of wall there with those dimensions, but thought it was worth mentioning ;)

Lastly, is the 16' width a function of your space footprint? If it isn't, you might wish to consider 18' or more for volleyball width. My pool is quite small compared to what you're planning a 30x18.5 grecian due to footprint) and 18.5 is almost a little narrow feeling for games and even diving if there are a handful of people in the pool.
 
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#7
Greetings, Todd, and welcome to TFP.

I like your idea on wall height and don't for a minute think you're crazy ;).

Some of our local gr pool builders don't IME have a ton of imagination or experience sometimes ;) PM who you're working with and what kind of distribution they're working with. Latham's distributor, SPC in Kalamazoo, has widest access to packages with varying wall heights, I believe. I can check with an independent contractor I know who works with them. Sometimes builders are limited in choice based on what level or brand of distribution they're associated with. For my new liner, I went indie to get what I wanted when my OB couldn't get a particular pattern ;)

Also, have you considered composite panels instead of steel? Down the road...and I mean waaaay down the road, composite is a better combo if you decide to use SWG. Also, readily available in 48" for deeper shallow ends. Mine are composite and in mint condition, according to the team who changed my liner. Slightly more expensive and you have a lot of wall there with those dimensions, but thought it was worth mentioning ;)

Lastly, is the 16' width a function of your space footprint? If it isn't, you might wish to consider 18' or more for volleyball width. My pool is quite small compared to what you're planning a 30x18.5 grecian due to footprint) and 18.5 is almost a little narrow feeling for games and even diving if there are a handful of people in the pool.
PM sent. Thanks!

I was considering poly walls but read I may have better strength for the coping and deck with steel. My last old pool was a struggle with concrete sinking and I thought I would pull out all of the stops with this build. Including insisting on stone fill. It seems everyone I talked to uses sand. Having said that - I do want to go with a SWG. You have me thinking on that too.
I am thinking hard about going 18 and your post may have convinced me. Last pool was 16 and there were times I wished it was wider.

Thanks for you're interest! Another reason for sticking to a rectangle was your thread on your winter dome. Something similar for me down the road perhaps. I hate our short season.[emoji20]



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bmoreswim

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Jul 16, 2012
4,399
Central MD
#8
If our pool were one foot longer, it would have equal sq. ft. to 16 x 44. Ours is 18 x 38. I'd say that if you will plan on having any side benches that infringe on the rectangle, then 16' is too skinny. Because then it's less than 15' wide.

But I think that 16' wide (on a rectangle) is a decent compromise to get 44' length. Our shallow end is half of our pool (meaning where I can stand - so 5' water depth). But don't skimp on length of the diving well. That's the key safety feature of your pool with a diving board. Ours is 5' deep 19 feet from the diving board wall and I wouldn't want it any shallower at that point for sure.

It will look a little long and skinny to the eye but not unusually so. That comes from "they" saying that width = .5 x length is the ideal aesthetic for a rectangle. I'd do that size in the right circumstances for sure.
 
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#9
If our pool were one foot longer, it would have equal sq. ft. to 16 x 44. Ours is 18 x 38. I'd say that if you will plan on having any side benches that infringe on the rectangle, then 16' is too skinny. Because then it's less than 15' wide.

But I think that 16' wide (on a rectangle) is a decent compromise to get 44' length. Our shallow end is half of our pool (meaning where I can stand - so 5' water depth). But don't skimp on length of the diving well. That's the key safety feature of your pool with a diving board. Ours is 5' deep 19 feet from the diving board wall and I wouldn't want it any shallower at that point for sure.

It will look a little long and skinny to the eye but not unusually so. That comes from "they" saying that width = .5 x length is the ideal aesthetic for a rectangle. I'd do that size in the right circumstances for sure.
Thanks for the pointers :D

I was thinking:
Tanning ledge\(swim to's i think is the term) for each side of the deep end - "outside" of the rectangle (uncertain of the terminology)
For shallow end steps i will have them on the side - again with the footprint outside of the rectangle.

I am starting to tilt in my thinking to 18 ft wide. I do have room for that. This is going to be a tough one.
 

kimdurg

Well-known member
May 26, 2014
64
North Canton, Ohio
#10
Just my 2 cents. Before deciding 100% on your dimensions, look at items like a pool cover and solar cover. Granted, a solar cover can be cut down to size and a bigger pool cover can be purchased, however, do you want to deal with cutting the solar cover? Will you have enough cement around the pool for the larger cover? Or, purchasing a custom made pool cover worth the extra money?
 

JohnT

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Apr 4, 2007
9,466
SW Indiana
#11
Have you checked with your insurance company to see if they will cover you with a diving board? More companies are refusing coverage on a diving pool.

If you just want someplace for kids to jump in, a standard diving pool will be acceptable. If you want to do real dives where you enter the water nearly vertical, a pool with a standard residential diving hopper shape will be a disappointment to you. Most residential pools are intended for relatively flat dives. If you try to dive by jumping in the air and having your feet enter the water at the same spots your hands do, you will hit the bottom of the pool.

My pool has a diving hopper and is 36' long. If I added 8' to it, the shallow end would still be pretty small for volleyball, though the taller walls could delay the start of your slope about 1.5' as well.

Not trying to talk you one way or another. Just giving you an idea of what to expect.
 

sham

Silver Supporter
Mar 4, 2016
179
McKinney, TX
#12
I don't think you'll be able to play volleyball in a pool with a deep end because it will slope off too much for the team on that side. Our pool is free form and 15-18 feet wide, 40 feet long, 3.5 - 5 - 4.5 depth and it is still a bit small, volleyball goes out of the pool a lot! It is pretty hard to play when you're up near the net at center of the pool where it is 5 feet, I'm 5'7. A little easier for my husband and brothers who are 6'+. I wish I had room for an L shape!
 
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#13
Just my 2 cents. Before deciding 100% on your dimensions, look at items like a pool cover and solar cover. Granted, a solar cover can be cut down to size and a bigger pool cover can be purchased, however, do you want to deal with cutting the solar cover? Will you have enough cement around the pool for the larger cover? Or, purchasing a custom made pool cover worth the extra money?
Thanks, Noted - for my sit down with the builder. I will ask about pricing for the covers with these dimensions vs a more standard size.




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#14
Have you checked with your insurance company to see if they will cover you with a diving board? More companies are refusing coverage on a diving pool.

If you just want someplace for kids to jump in, a standard diving pool will be acceptable. If you want to do real dives where you enter the water nearly vertical, a pool with a standard residential diving hopper shape will be a disappointment to you. Most residential pools are intended for relatively flat dives. If you try to dive by jumping in the air and having your feet enter the water at the same spots your hands do, you will hit the bottom of the pool.

My pool has a diving hopper and is 36' long. If I added 8' to it, the shallow end would still be pretty small for volleyball, though the taller walls could delay the start of your slope about 1.5' as well.

Not trying to talk you one way or another. Just giving you an idea of what to expect.
Thank you for that input. I just checked with the insurance company and I'm good to go. Lucky there. I knew about the difficulties but had forgotten to call. Great reminder.

Also we won't be doing diving form practice [emoji12]- mostly belly flops and cannon balls with some poor form angled diving mixed in to get into a cold pool faster.


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#15
I don't think you'll be able to play volleyball in a pool with a deep end because it will slope off too much for the team on that side. Our pool is free form and 15-18 feet wide, 40 feet long, 3.5 - 5 - 4.5 depth and it is still a bit small, volleyball goes out of the pool a lot! It is pretty hard to play when you're up near the net at center of the pool where it is 5 feet, I'm 5'7. A little easier for my husband and brothers who are 6'+. I wish I had room for an L shape!
I was thinking we would get about 10.5 ft per side - not perfect but good for some casual play. The side with the deep end could be a challenge for that team to not back into the slope or determining what is "out of bounds" I suppose but the beer could render those arguments somewhat moot - well, I hopefully anyway. I do also anticipate ball chasing. I will probably have a few on standby or make ball fetching an official rug-rat duty.

I will measure out 10 ft on the lawn and see if it seems ridiculously short. I would love to do a sport pool but I know some Duffas is gonna try to dive inappropriately while I'm not looking. [emoji51]
 
Mar 15, 2017
19
ON
#16
Great thread! Our pool is currently being built. L shape 18x36 with a 10x10 stick out for the base of the L....so 18x36x28. Intent was volleyball along the bottom of the L and diving up the L. Hired a design company to layout the project including a 39x16 garden shed and cabana. PB comes along and informs me of how much room my slope and hopper will take up....essentially 24' of the left side of the L and then we realized volleyball won't work with a 10 foot width along the base. Ugh. So ended up doing a stetch of 24 feet of 4' deep and 12 feet of 6' deep. Thinking of placing the net at 13 feet so each court is 13x18 (one side will have 2 feet of slope to a depth of 4'8") .... I am hoping it will be okay volleyball for 2 on 2. Also hoping the 6 feet deep will satisfy my 3 kids in the years to come who are 5 and under. If they complain about my no diving rule in the years to come I will take them to a local diving hole to let them dive their hearts out for the day :p. I am not a diver and husband can shallow dive with ease skimming just below surface (when the kids are not around :eek:). Good luck with your decision....I know it's not easy!