New build in the Garden State - NJ

MarlboroMan

Gold Supporter
Jul 17, 2018
93
Marlboro New Jersey
Thank you everyone again for your feedback. I appreciate all of it!

Here are a couple of pics where the pool will go.

20180912_111135.jpg

I just have one tree in the yard but I don't expect too much foliage from it to affect the pool.
20180912_112148.jpg
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
19,876
Bedford, TX
mn,

Very pretty... I am always jealous of pools with a view.. I have a great view.... of my neighbors house.. :p

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

React

Gold Supporter
Jul 5, 2018
82
Flower Mound, TX
Beautiful lot... Cannot wait for the day I can have a larger lot and not just see my neighbors. By that time I'll have enough time with TFP and know exactly how to handle my own build :)
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
21,287
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I suggest new builds at last put in a dedicated return that can be used for a pressure or vacuum cleaner AND install an electrical outlet near the pool for a robot. Then you have the option of either as the technology changes over time.

Most peoples problems with Polaris pool cleaners can be fixed with a rebuild kit that costs less than $150. If you are handy the Polaris cleaners are simple devices and easy to repair and keep running.
 

MarlboroMan

Gold Supporter
Jul 17, 2018
93
Marlboro New Jersey
At this point my PB is saying the SWG I have is adequate and I do not have to run it for more than around 9 +/- hours with my VSP. (Based on my size pool)

He sees no reason why anyone would run their pump 24 hours after a pool is broken in. He also said I can increase the amp on the SWG(?) (Im not sure if I got that correct.) to decrease the run time if I want.

With that said. He tells me he has no problem selling me something for more $.

After the pool is finished (next Spring) I will go to Pool School nearby and they will teach me how to keep my pool happy. I guess from there I have to learn about Pool School here at TFP as well. (But I am getting ahead of myself.)

Does this make sense?:confused:
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
47,408
Tallahassee, FL
You would have to run the pump that long to maintain the proper FC (free chlorine) level to keep the pool from going green with too small a SWG.


NO......................PLEASE do not go to their "pool school". Well you an go but don't listen!! LOL We can/will teach you how to care for your pool that will cost less and be easier than anything they tell you.

Kim:kim:
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
19,876
Bedford, TX
mm,

Your SWCG (1400) will produce an FC increase of 4.8 ppm, in your pool, when the cell is running at 100% output in a 24 hour period. So that is an increase of .2ppm of FC per hour.

Most pools use between 2 and 4 ppm of chlorine a day. Assuming your pool only uses 2 ppm a day, then your pump will only need to run 10 hours. Which is what your pool builder said. But to put that in perspective, that is the very minimum... If we assume that your pool uses the average amount of FC that most pools use, 3 ppm per day... then you would need to run your pump for 15 hours. Still not too bad.. Also keep in mind that your cell is operating at 100% output. There is no increasing the amps on a cell.. I assume your pool builder was talking about adjust the output percentage, but at this point your cell is already running at 100%.

If you want to see what your pool builder knows about salt cells, just ask him how much your cell will increase the FC, in your pool, per day. I doubt he has a clue .. :p

To give your pool builder some slack, the 1400 will work for your pool in your climate area. You will just have to keep the output set to 100%..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

MarlboroMan

Gold Supporter
Jul 17, 2018
93
Marlboro New Jersey
mm,

Your SWCG (1400) will produce an FC increase of 4.8 ppm, in your pool, when the cell is running at 100% output in a 24 hour period. So that is an increase of .2ppm of FC per hour.

Most pools use between 2 and 4 ppm of chlorine a day. Assuming your pool only uses 2 ppm a day, then your pump will only need to run 10 hours. Which is what your pool builder said. But to put that in perspective, that is the very minimum... If we assume that your pool uses the average amount of FC that most pools use, 3 ppm per day... then you would need to run your pump for 15 hours. Still not too bad.. Also keep in mind that your cell is operating at 100% output. There is no increasing the amps on a cell.. I assume your pool builder was talking about adjust the output percentage, but at this point your cell is already running at 100%.

If you want to see what your pool builder knows about salt cells, just ask him how much your cell will increase the FC, in your pool, per day. I doubt he has a clue .. :p

To give your pool builder some slack, the 1400 will work for your pool in your climate area. You will just have to keep the output set to 100%..

Thanks,

Jim R.
Wow!!! I read your response first and then read up on ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry,.... and then re-read your response another 3x. Somehow it made sense! So thank you for your detailed response!!:kim:

Going back to what my PB said,... he said I could add a second (1400) SWG for another $1800. I didn't like that idea because of the markup for the second SWG and labor he will be charging me. It appears to me that he only deals in Jandy products.

So if I want a bigger SWG I will have to get a different SWG (as advised by others here) and pay him the labor of installing it. Not sure if he will cover it if something goes wrong with the SWG though,....
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
33,974
Laughlin, NV
As Jim said, the 1400 will work. Just go with it and see how it goes. You will have to run your pump a bit longer but with a VS that is not a big deal. After that cell is used up, you will know your pool and you can determine if a different cell size would be best. And how that would work in your system.
 

MarlboroMan

Gold Supporter
Jul 17, 2018
93
Marlboro New Jersey
NO......................PLEASE do not go to their "pool school". Well you an go but don't listen!! LOL We can/will teach you how to care for your pool that will cost less and be easier than anything they tell you.

Kim:kim:
I know I am getting ahead of myself but I am curious.

1. What is the difference in methods used here at TFP versus a PB's pool school water chemistry method?

2. After I am handed the keys to the pool (next Spring) I am suppose to go to Pool School at a local pool service company to teach me the ropes. Meanwhile they will handle all the water testing and chemical adding until the water chemistry is at the "proper" levels. (Sounds good to me, just like free oil changes for 1st year.)

3. Once I am on my own I assume the Pool Service will have taught me how to maintain the pool chemistry using their method. My questions here is, shouldn't I follow the PB's (pool service company) regiment for a certain period so that I don't void any warranty or workmanship of the pool? i.e. Let's say several tiles fell off. They are not going to fix it because I didn't follow their recommended water chemistry methods.

I have read some history on how TFP came up with the recommended methods and such (very impressive) which is why I joined and very much want my pool to be TFP.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
47,408
Tallahassee, FL
Most pool companies/pool schools do not understand or even know about the relationship between CYA and FC. Some are slowing coming along due to the push by the same people that came up with how TFP does their pool school and personal pools. "This is how we have always done it" is what you may be facing when you go to your PB's pool school.

Others maintaining your pool=nuke and hope :( They tend to come out once a week so they push the FC levels up and pH down in hopes it will be enough to last until they come back in a week.

I will tell you that your pH will need to be adjusted at least ONCE A DAY in the very beginning :shock: As the plaster cures it pushes the pH up. It will slow down as time goes by. Some as early as 3 months, some as long as a year.

You also need to brush your pool at least once a day. This will help keep the plaster dust from settling on the plaster.

I would like you to read a couple of threads about the best plaster start up:

The Bicarb Start Pool Help

Pool Plaster Start-up Alternative

Note these are labor intensive but very doable by someone living at the house and willing to do the work. The upside is your plaster will last a very long time using these start up methods.

I also would like you to do a search for this- NPC start up card. For some reason I cannot link to PDF files. This is the next best start up for plaster.

Now share all of this with your PB. See what he has to say. He might be so surprised you even know about all of this he will sign off on you doing the start up and care and maintain the warranty.

The other part of all of this is the test kit. Here is a link: Pool School - Test Kits Compared I will tell you there is a reason I have the TF-100 in my siggy below. It is the best bang for the buck as it has more of the regents we use so should last for a season or more!

The "free" pool care = free oil changes really does not pan out after you read what I wrote and can cause more harm than good in the looks of your new plaster.

Kim:kim:
 

riley00dog

Gold Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
2,215
Brisbane, Qld, Australia
I do agree with you a gas heater works better. But correct me if I am wrong, "yes" the heat pump will take longer to heat the water but once it does the pump will maintain that temp as long as the outside ambient temp is at a certain temperature.
We have a heat pump and have ran it all over winter this season. We’re just coming out of winter here in Australia. It absolutely will heat to the desired temp. We don’t get below freezing but very close at night. We have a cover and I wouldn’t recommend a heat pump or any heater without one unless you want to heat the atmosphere. Just do your research and oversize. There’s some rubbish systems around.

Our pb included a robot. We’ve named him Jeff and he’s my favourite piece of equipment. I love him so much [emoji7] When I saw robot in the contract I had no idea about cleaning systems and am very grateful to our pb for including good equipment. We also have have a swcg and a ph probe and auto acid dosing. All was included. The only thing we upgraded as far as equipment goes is the pump. We changed from two speed to variable speed for the energy savings. Honestly though I pretty much only use it on two speeds though I’m glad I have variable. The heat pump has its own single speed boost pump.

My advice is to take the advise offered here. It will save you a lot of time and money. I research on here like mad for a while before we signed our contract. It helped me decide/confirm everything from equipment to depth to interior to decking. Good luck with your build.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
19,876
Bedford, TX
As Jim said, the 1400 will work. Just go with it and see how it goes. You will have to run your pump a bit longer but with a VS that is not a big deal. After that cell is used up, you will know your pool and you can determine if a different cell size would be best. And how that would work in your system.
mm,

If I were in your shoes, I would follow Marty's advice above...

Jim R.
 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 10, 2017
3,085
Morris Cnty NJ
as said you are going to need to run the pool pump almost 24/7 in the off season to use the heat pump but you will also need less chlorine made by the SWG to do so. during the season the heatpump will run less but your pump will need to run more to make the chlorine you need. like I said earlier on a week like this your heatpump would still be running almost full time in NJ to keep temps up with our low 50s at night and barely 70 all day for days. I dont even look at the weather now. If im gonna swim this sunday its gonna be 80ish I kick my heater on early morning and in a few hrs my water is 90. we swim and solar cover pool again and decide if we will swim again later. w a heatpump you gotta keep it running all season until you are done swimming it will take day(s) to come up 20 degrees in pool water temps this time of year and again in april/may.
 

scdaren

Gold Supporter
Bronze Supporter
May 20, 2018
403
Clovis, CA
With regard to a heat pump. I have a Pentair 140, which is similar in size to yours, and it heats my 15k gal. pool about 1 degree an hour.

Yes, it will work with ambient temps above 60 deg. But, the cooler it is, the less efficient the heater is. I don't really like to run mine when it's under about 75 degrees outside. Also, my Pentair runs about 7500 watts. So at 24 cents a kwh where I am, it costs about $1.80 an hour. So if the water gets down to the low 70s (and it is now with shade on my pool and temps in the 90s), it costs me about $20 to get it heated up to a comfortable level. Then at night the water temp can drop 5 degrees, so costs another ~$8 to get it back where I want it again.

I have been completely against putting a solar cover on my pool, because I hate them and don't want to hassle with one, and I don't want the big reel in my yard. But after my first season running the heat pump and paying to warm it up on more weekends than I had expected, I literally just this morning ordered a cover. You will want one to keep your pool warm and not be running the heat pump all the time.

You should not need to run your pump 24/7 with your heat pump. Your heat pump will only run when your pump is running, so you'll need to run it whatever number of hours it takes to heat your pool. My automation allows me to set whatever schedule I want for the heat pump. That may end up being quite a few hours though if you don't have a cover, and the pool pump will add another kilowatt or two per hour to your costs.

So my advice is to do the math ahead of time to figure out what the cost of heating will be, and plan on having a cover. If I had planned better ahead of time, I would have put more thought into where a cover would go when not on the pool, and planned my landscaping, etc. a little better around that.
 

scdaren

Gold Supporter
Bronze Supporter
May 20, 2018
403
Clovis, CA
Just looked at the specs on that Aquacal SQ145 -- I think you are undersized there. My Pentair 140 has higher btu ratings, and I'm warming a 15k gal pool 1 degree an hour when it's 80 degrees outside.
 

riley00dog

Gold Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
2,215
Brisbane, Qld, Australia
My heat pump is independent and full inverter. It runs when it needs to run to maintain temp. As I mentioned ours is on its own pump so doesn’t require the pool pump to be on. You can plumb it either way. During winter it was never running all the time. It’s important to look at the COP rating for both winter and summer. Many systems have a cop of 4 ish during warm weather and less during cold. Our system has a cop of 16 in summer and 8 in winter. In summer for one unit of electricity it uses it produces 16. A system with a cop of 4 in summer would take one unit of electricity and only give you 4 units back. I had a good understanding of heat pumps before we put the pool in as we have had a heat pump for our hot water system for the past 9 years. It is a stiebel electron and heats the water off peak with no electric back up at all as it’s not required. It’s a German design and can heat water in well below freezing temps in Germany. We have had our quarterly electricity bill after running our pool heat pump all winter and combined with all the other pool equipment it hasn’t added a massive amount to our bill. The company we had install did stats for the system for our pool size, location etc. They broke down the costs for each month. Running costs for the year in total for our pool are estimated to be just over $800AUD to maintain a temp of 32*C with a cover and 30*C without (obviously this is dependent on your cost of electricity - we pay about .25 per kwh. So far we have run it at 30*C with cover as this is enough for my boys. I will up it to 32*C for myself when the outside temp is warm enough for me to use it.
 

scdaren

Gold Supporter
Bronze Supporter
May 20, 2018
403
Clovis, CA
My heat pump is independent and full inverter. It runs when it needs to run to maintain temp. As I mentioned ours is on its own pump so doesn’t require the pool pump to be on. You can plumb it either way. During winter it was never running all the time. It’s important to look at the COP rating for both winter and summer. Many systems have a cop of 4 ish during warm weather and less during cold. Our system has a cop of 16 in summer and 8 in winter. In summer for one unit of electricity it uses it produces 16. A system with a cop of 4 in summer would take one unit of electricity and only give you 4 units back. I had a good understanding of heat pumps before we put the pool in as we have had a heat pump for our hot water system for the past 9 years. It is a stiebel electron and heats the water off peak with no electric back up at all as it’s not required. It’s a German design and can heat water in well below freezing temps in Germany. We have had our quarterly electricity bill after running our pool heat pump all winter and combined with all the other pool equipment it hasn’t added a massive amount to our bill. The company we had install did stats for the system for our pool size, location etc. They broke down the costs for each month. Running costs for the year in total for our pool are estimated to be just over $800AUD to maintain a temp of 32*C with a cover and 30*C without (obviously this is dependent on your cost of electricity - we pay about .25 per kwh. So far we have run it at 30*C with cover as this is enough for my boys. I will up it to 32*C for myself when the outside temp is warm enough for me to use it.
What kind of heat pump do you have? How does water move through it without the pool pump on, does it have it's own water pump?
 

riley00dog

Gold Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
2,215
Brisbane, Qld, Australia
What kind of heat pump do you have? How does water move through it without the pool pump on, does it have it's own water pump?
Yes it has it’s own pump that I mentioned. It’s only an inexpensive boost pump that is intended for use with heat pumps with the correct flow rate.

This is our system. We oversized by installing the iph45. Our pool is tiny and the model below would have sufficed.

https://www.poolheating.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/AES-Inverter-Plus-Heat-Pumps-Brochure.pdf
 

MarlboroMan

Gold Supporter
Jul 17, 2018
93
Marlboro New Jersey
Hello Everyone,

I wanted to get your opinion on the 6" tiles for all around the pool. Our finish will be Cobalt Quartz Finish.

For coping it will be either a gray or faded brown bull nose. Both of which are in the pics.

In the last pic the tiles are almost "glass" like so it might be easier to clean(?) and algae won't stick as much(?).

Love to hear people's take.

Thanks,
 

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