New build - feedback welcome

Ellen M

Bronze Supporter
Oct 25, 2020
20
San Diego
Hi. Thank you all for your participation on this site. We hope to start our build in the weeks to come. Please feel free to share your critique, feedback, questions, or comments. We welcome feedback.

Project Dimensions: ≈16k gallons, 440 sq ft, 134’ perimeter, IG, shotcrete, salt water pool/spa
  • Lap Pool -8’ x 48.3’ 4 entry stairs,1 rear 2 person seat/stair and *considering a small rear exit step opposite side as well
  • Spa -6’ x 8’ level with the pool; spill way 1’ Vera Cruz cream NPT glossy porcelain marble looking tile (see pictures)
  • Pool Depths -3’9” until past exercise rail then 4’0” (total shallow end about 24’) to 6’0” depth
  • Spa Depth - 3’9”
  • Cover Pool T4 Auto Cover System with vanishing lid (track under the coping, marble cover box housing), quad fabric forest green, steel grade & stainless steel ropes, CoverLink keypad touch pad, maybe with wi-fi
  • BADU Swim Jet system (see below) ( Badu®Stream II – SwimJet System | SPECK Pumps )
  • Upgraded heaters – see equipment section
  • Latticrete Hydroban waterproofing at the waterline and spa wall spillway areas prior to tile install
Permits and Engineering:
  • Includes standard structural pool engineering
  • Includes upslope with retaining wall surcharge engineering detail
  • Includes auto cover vault engineering detail
  • Includes City of San Diego combination building permit
Excavation: Includes setting elevations, layout and forming
  • Includes guaranteed excavation with the exception of rock or hard ground conditions
  • Hard ground conditions are any ground that requires the use of a breaker or ripper
  • Includes removing all pool dirt & sod from site – including trucking and dump fees
  • Removal of travertine sidewalk and patio to allow for gas lines
Steel Reinforcement:
  • Steel reinforcement to meet or exceed local building codes
  • Includes Five (5) #4 bars in the bond beam
  • All steel surcharge to be #4 bar where required
  • All steel to be properly blocked up and spaced to allow proper shotcrete coverage
  • Includes double curtain spa wall rebar
Plumbing:
  • All plumbing to meet building and health department standards
  • Pool plumbing to be hydraulically balanced with water velocities of less than 7’ per second
  • All plumbing lines to be PVC schedule 40 pipe
  • Includes variable speed pool filtration pump for energy efficiency
  • Includes dedicated main drain
  • Includes dedicated cleaner line with valve
  • Includes 2 Waterway commercial grade skimmers with dedicated suction line w/ 2.5" Pipe (each separately plumbed to the pad). Skimmers to be placed 15' from each end of pool.
  • Includes dedicated 2HP spa jet booster pump with 3” suction
  • All plumbing to be pressure tested throughout construction
  • Includes equipotential deck bonding per building code.
  • Includes auto fill with overflow to be connected to yard drainage by drainage contractor
  • Plumbing hook up for thermal solar panels. Add 2 solar stub, 2” lines to house & 1/2” conduit
  • Returns: The pool has 3 full size 1.5 inch return lines with waterway flush mount adjustable eyeball fittings. Return locations to be determined. Will be installed to push water towards the skimmer for better skimming action. A dedicated deep heat return at the deep end for better mixing when the heater is on is included. Goal is best circulation to keep pool temperature balanced throughout the pool.
  • Heater-PB sets up a spa spillway mode that automatically turns the valve and send 100% of the water back to the spa and spa spills over into the pool. This is usually set up for a couple of hours every day to keeps the pool one body of water.
  • TFP comment re bypass on heater- PB says: Since we have a chemical controller, PB will need to check with Pentair on what they recommend for spa filtration. A hard plumbed spa bypass is the older way of doing it, but it might be the better way for a chemical controller. PB will get some feedback from the Pentair rep on this issue. PB also install a check valve right after the heater.
  • Work with thermal Solar professionals as needed in process of pool building
Gas Line:
  • Includes gas line from meter to pool equipment location
  • Includes gas hook up at pool heaters and house with shut off valves
  • Includes upsized 2” gas line for long gas run
Shotcrete:
  • Includes shotcrete pool structure per engineered plans and specifications with continuous bond beam around skimmer(s)
  • Buyer agrees to water shotcrete structure twice a day for five days after placement.
  • Includes 3500-PSI Shotcrete
  • PB places heavy emphasis structural strength. This means heavy steel schedules spaced properly and heavy PSI on our shotcrete placement.
Clean Up and Backfill
  • Includes thorough cleanup of all pool construction debris
  • Includes backfill and compaction of all plumbing, gas, and electrical ditches
Equipment:
  • Filtration Pump – Pentair IntelliFlo variable speed pump
  • Jet Pump - Pentair 2HP Whisperflo pump
  • Filter – Pentair Clean and Clear 420 s.f. cartridge filter
  • Heater – Pentair ETI 400,000 BTU high efficiency heater (natural gas)
  • Heat Pump – AquaCal Heatwave SuperQuiet SQ 225
  • Pool Lights – Five Pentair Microbrite LED color lights (facing away from house)
  • Spa Light – Pentair Microbrite LED color light
  • Controller – Pentair Intellicenter pool control system with mobile device interface
  • Salt System – Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG>upgrade IC60 if desired
  • Chem Controller – Pentair Intellichem water chemistry controller
  • UV system – Pentair Bioshield UV disinfection sanitizer
  • Spa Jets – 6 hydrotherapy jets (variable speed pump)
  • Spa Jets – 8 hydrotherapy jets (booster pump)
  • Spa Jets --Standard shotcrete venturi tee type jets. PB also installs the waterway flush mount adjustable eyeball fittings on each jet, like the returns in the pool.
  • Auto Fill – Pentair Intellilevel auto fill
  • Pool Sweep – Hayward Sweep line placed in the middle of house side of the pool ( The PoolCleaner 4 Wheel Suction Cleaner, White | Hayward Residential and Commercial Pool Products )
Equipment Pad area:
  • Equipment pad footprint is ≈ 4’x14’. Includes a two pump system with filter, heater, heat pump, and chemical controller. PB will include space in front of the equipment for somebody to be able to stand there and service the equipment.
  • Shower area 4’x4’ with ground drain area to rinse off before/after swimming. Done by landscaper.
  • Outdoor camping toilet near shower area
  • Will install light in this area as suggested on TFP
Electrical:
  • Includes complete electrical hook up of all equipment and lights
  • Includes set up and programming of Intellicenter and mobile device set up
  • Includes a dedicated 50 amp circuit for the AquaCal Heatwave SuperQuiet SQ 225 heat pump
  • GFCI protected outlet at the pool equipment area
  • Includes a switched circuit to use the pool controller to turn on and off the lights
  • Includes pool control panel which is a sub-panel with breakers
Coping:
  • Includes Diana Royal Fine Picked Antique Marble 3 cm bullnosed edge coping
Tile:
  • Includes Laticrete Hydro Ban water proofing system
  • Includes NPT VeraCruz cream color 12”x24” cut to 6" x24" ceramic porcelain marble look water line tile
  • Includes Lightstreams Shell Beach Decorative Glass Tile Strands step trim for all steps & benches
  • Includes 5 lane markers diagonally placed 10’ apart at 3’, 13.5’, 24’, 34.5’, 45’ (NPT Art Deco Rainbow glass 4”x4” 2 dolphins, 2 starfish & 1 nautilus)
Plaster:
  • Includes NPT Stonescape Micro Pebble (color Moraine) pool and spa finish
  • Includes matching flush mount return fittings
  • Includes matching VGB compliant drain covers
Automatic Pool Cover:
  • Cover Pools brand
  • Includes 440 square foot automatic pool cover
  • Includes automatic cover–buyers’ choice of standard quad colors (likely forest green)
  • Includes monolithic cover vault with steel and shotcrete construction
  • Includes drain outlet for vault – hardscape contractor to connect drain
  • Includes stainless steel brackets for hidden lid system
  • Includes matching coping lid pieces.
  • Stainless steel ropes
  • Includes hard wired remote CoverLink keypad touch pad maybe with wi-fi
Swim Jet:
  • Includes Badu Jet Stream 2 swim system
  • Includes Two BaduStream II Jets combined with one 4HP Speck pump
  • Includes hard wired pool side controller
  • Note: BADU pump to be located no further than 30’ from swim jets
  • Includes 4’ inch plumbing
Start Up:
  • Includes all start up equipment including: brush, net, pole, thermometer, test kit (of our choosing)
  • Includes all programming
  • Includes all initial pool chemicals
  • includes client walk through and orientation
  • Includes 30 days pool service
Additional Specifications:
  • Includes all spa benches and ledges per plan.
  • Includes one exit seat/step at back of pool. Bench will seat 2 adults. Depth TBD (considering 18” of water depth). PB offers to add a top step at the end of the bench if choose.
  • Includes SR Smith 2’ exercise hand rail at shallow end post entry stairs on house side of pool
  • Includes SR Smith deck mounted entry step hand rail
  • Additional handrail if 1 handrail does not work for entry to spa step and pool steps
  • SR Smith deck mounted back step hand rail
Solar
  • Thermal Panels- Swim Jet brand 400 sq ft.
  • Solar PV 10 new SunPower 415 watts panels & 21 Sun World 260 watts, older yet useable panels
Decking Specifications (Left front, left side and back of house) & More
  • 1400 sq ft Diana Royal Fine Picked Antiqued Marble Pavers French pattern layout, dry mound
  • All Marble Pavers and Matching coping sealed with penetrating sealer that will provide the wet look to pop the color. Fine picked Antique provides a textured non slip surface.
  • Remaining yard is covered small plant bed areas and remaining large areas will have artificiallawn.com, safe for pets & heavy traffic Pacifica Premium 1.75” 102 oz artificial lawn.
  • 01 overview.jpg02 pool, court, decking.jpg03 pool bird view.jpg04 pool closer view.jpg05 interior pool.jpg06 auto cover & deep end.jpg07 Sun Marble Diana Royal fine picked antique french pattern .png08 Evening Marble decking:coping & water tiles lower level on old travertine deck.JPG09 Spa:Step glass markers on wet micro pebble on marble.JPG10 Watertiles, lap markers & bench:step markers.JPG
 

HermanTX

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
1,674
Katy TX
Pool Size
14600
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
What a great design!!!! It appears you have everything well thought out. All you need to do is buy a good test kit Test Kits Compared and remember to get PoolMath.
It will be fun watching your progress on this new construction.
 

Axeldog

Member
Apr 25, 2021
8
Pennsylvania
Thanks for the update. our concrete is being installed right this minute! I’m curious about the Moraine color and we‘re also interested in the Kenai Gray. Please share anything you get from your PB about the micro finish (and any pictures) and we’ll do the same!
 

ofcounsel

Active member
Dec 30, 2020
44
Brea, CA
Pool Size
16000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Beautiful lay out! One thing you may want to consider, if you haven't already, is whether you want to have a hardscape pathway that leads from your main paved area to your pool steps. Doing so may keep a "worn path" area in your grass from forming if the pool gets used often.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
21,691
Bedford, TX
Ellen,

I wish my pool was that long.. :)

Keep in mind that you really need to be able to walk around the whole pool without falling in... You will often need to take brush or net and use it from all sides of the pool.. Pretty hard to do if there is no place to walk..

  • Chem Controller – Pentair Intellichem water chemistry controller
  • UV system – Pentair Bioshield UV disinfection sanitizer

We really do not recommend either of these two devices.. You will have a saltwater pool so they are just not needed.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

ofcounsel

Active member
Dec 30, 2020
44
Brea, CA
Pool Size
16000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Beautiful lay out! One thing you may want to consider, if you haven't already, is whether you want to have a hardscape pathway that leads from your main paved area to your pool steps. Doing so may keep a "worn path" area in your grass from forming if the pool gets used often.h
Oh, nevermind! I just read the portion of the post where you say you're using turf!
 

Axeldog

Member
Apr 25, 2021
8
Pennsylvania
I wanted to provide a micro update. I spoke with our local NPT showroom and asked if they could provide me with the name of a contractor who has used the Stonescapes micro finish and they could not. They stated that they haven’t sold any of the “micro ingredients” and said it appears to be a “west coast thing”.
 

Ellen M

Bronze Supporter
Oct 25, 2020
20
San Diego
I wanted to provide a micro update. I spoke with our local NPT showroom and asked if they could provide me with the name of a contractor who has used the Stonescapes micro finish and they could not. They stated that they haven’t sold any of the “micro ingredients” and said it appears to be a “west coast thing”.
My pool builder came out this week, saw my wet micro pebble samples gleaming in the sun and said he is glad to install and appreciates why I chose it over the rougher mini pebble. Once he talks to the installer he will have places for me to see the finish. I do not know if it matches your time frame. It would be great for you to bring it to the east coast. (FYI I grew up in the NE corner of NJ near High Point State Park).
 

Ellen M

Bronze Supporter
Oct 25, 2020
20
San Diego
Ellen,

I wish my pool was that long.. :)

Keep in mind that you really need to be able to walk around the whole pool without falling in... You will often need to take brush or net and use it from all sides of the pool.. Pretty hard to do if there is no place to walk..



We really do not recommend either of these two devices.. You will have a saltwater pool so they are just not needed.

Thanks,

Jim R.
Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your input. MKnauss also mentioned this as copied below. As empty nesters the pool cover will be on most of every day. We intend to swim no more than 30 min-1 hr a day with occasional dips on hot days or after a long walk. So based on that we were leaning towards playing it safe and getting both items. It was our potential future pool service guy, who was also a previous pool builder, who said the pools he cleans that have the Pentair Bioshield UV are in better shape. He recommends anyone doing a new build with an auto cover to add it to the design. Our pool builder said he would support either way as this was not something he felt he could argue for or against. All our knowledge came from the initial consultation with the former pool builder & now full service pool guy, hours reading on trouble free pool forum, and our pool builder. We are hoping to start the layout within 2 weeks. Any additional input is welcomed.

MKnauss noted:
I recommend you reconsider installing those two items. UV is unnecessary in an outdoor pool. And the Intellichem uses ORP which does not work well in outdoor pools.

I do realize you will have an autocover. If you only plan to open the cover for very short periods primarily when there is no sun shining on the pool water surface, then those two items may be OK.


Thank you,
Ellen
 

Ellen M

Bronze Supporter
Oct 25, 2020
20
San Diego
Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your input. MKnauss also mentioned this as copied below. As empty nesters the pool cover will be on most of every day. We intend to swim no more than 30 min-1 hr a day with occasional dips on hot days or after a long walk. So based on that we were leaning towards playing it safe and getting both items. It was our potential future pool service guy, who was also a previous pool builder, who said the pools he cleans that have the Pentair Bioshield UV are in better shape. He recommends anyone doing a new build with an auto cover to add it to the design. Our pool builder said he would support either way as this was not something he felt he could argue for or against. All our knowledge came from the initial consultation with the former pool builder & now full service pool guy, hours reading on trouble free pool forum, and our pool builder. We are hoping to start the layout within 2 weeks. Any additional input is welcomed.

MKnauss noted:
I recommend you reconsider installing those two items. UV is unnecessary in an outdoor pool. And the Intellichem uses ORP which does not work well in outdoor pools.

I do realize you will have an autocover. If you only plan to open the cover for very short periods primarily when there is no sun shining on the pool water surface, then those two items may be OK.


Thank you,
Ellen
Jim,
Sent too soon. I want to also thank your for bringing the space around the back of the pool to my attention. There will be a 12" planter next to the retaining wall and then the 12" coping all around the pool. However, I am now gathering, as you noted, that 12" coping up against the planter is likely not enough room for ease of walking or the pool guy to clean. I will talk to pool builder as well as our landscaper (who work in conjunction) to be sure there is enough space between the planter and the coping. I am thinking we will need another 1/2-1' more and could add our artificial grass between planter and coping. Although this will push to pool closer into the yard, logic and practicality wins. The shortest distance between the pool and decking is 6', we were trying to not lose another foot yet we may need to shift the extra foot it from the front to the back of the pool. I just missed this one and no one but you caught it! The pool builder said when he lays it out in string we can make any adjustments. Now I have one! Without seeing plants there and only dirt no one may have caught this. From your experience, how many feet from waters edge do you think we need before hitting a plant? ( 1', 1.5', 2'?) If the yard space was not tight it would not be an issue. Thanks again, Ellen M
 

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Axeldog

Member
Apr 25, 2021
8
Pennsylvania
My pool builder came out this week, saw my wet micro pebble samples gleaming in the sun and said he is glad to install and appreciates why I chose it over the rougher mini pebble. Once he talks to the installer he will have places for me to see the finish. I do not know if it matches your time frame. It would be great for you to bring it to the east coast. (FYI I grew up in the NE corner of NJ near High Point State Park).
We’re on the eastern side of Pennsylvania just south of Allentown so not too far away. Our concrete still needs to set for several weeks so if you happen to get any pictures of the micro finish, particularly Moraine or Kenai Gray (which is what we’re really interested in!) please share!
 

carx7

Active member
Apr 29, 2021
26
Austin Texas
Lap pool for the win! We designed our pool at 40' so I could "kinda of" swim laps, and then stumbled across an Endless Pool Fast Lane Pro in my areas for a steal ($700 still with shrink wrap) so we were able to get it built-in with the shell. Looks great!
 

Ellen M

Bronze Supporter
Oct 25, 2020
20
San Diego
Jim,
Sent too soon. I want to also thank your for bringing the space around the back of the pool to my attention. There will be a 12" planter next to the retaining wall and then the 12" coping all around the pool. However, I am now gathering, as you noted, that 12" coping up against the planter is likely not enough room for ease of walking or the pool guy to clean. I will talk to pool builder as well as our landscaper (who work in conjunction) to be sure there is enough space between the planter and the coping. I am thinking we will need another 1/2-1' more and could add our artificial grass between planter and coping. Although this will push to pool closer into the yard, logic and practicality wins. The shortest distance between the pool and decking is 6', we were trying to not lose another foot yet we may need to shift the extra foot it from the front to the back of the pool. I just missed this one and no one but you caught it! The pool builder said when he lays it out in string we can make any adjustments. Now I have one! Without seeing plants there and only dirt no one may have caught this. From your experience, how many feet from waters edge do you think we need before hitting a plant? ( 1', 1.5', 2'?) If the yard space was not tight it would not be an issue. Thanks again, Ellen M
Update - Spoke to landscaper today & later the PB. They said the blueprints have accounted for this. The plan has a 12" planter at retaining wall for color, another open 12" (likely it will be turf) and then start of the 12" coping. They said we should be good. Landscaper prefers 1.5' of turf for looks; we will revisit once we determined where the retaining wall rebar is located. Once I see the layout in my yard, 5.5' vs 6' at shortest point to decking may not look much different. Thanks, Ellen M
Pool to marble decking shortest point 6'.jpg
 

Ellen M

Bronze Supporter
Oct 25, 2020
20
San Diego
We’re on the eastern side of Pennsylvania just south of Allentown so not too far away. Our concrete still needs to set for several weeks so if you happen to get any pictures of the micro finish, particularly Moraine or Kenai Gray (which is what we’re really interested in!) please share!
I will text PB to remember to ask installer as we really want to see it sooner vs later. I appreciate your anxiety! Unless you want rougher or weather issues, I'd say go for it as it is still pebble finish. If I succeed, you will hear from me.
 

Ellen M

Bronze Supporter
Oct 25, 2020
20
San Diego
Lap pool for the win! We designed our pool at 40' so I could "kinda of" swim laps, and then stumbled across an Endless Pool Fast Lane Pro in my areas for a steal ($700 still with shrink wrap) so we were able to get it built-in with the shell. Looks great!
Oops, I missed your post yesterday! I am delighted you were able to add the Fast Lane Pro. Our pool builder recommended installing the BADU Swim Jet system ( Badu®Stream II – SwimJet System | SPECK Pumps ) https://www.badujet.com/badustream-ii/. We hope to have a swimable pool before end in 19-23 week. Enjoy swimming! Ellen M
 

Axeldog

Member
Apr 25, 2021
8
Pennsylvania
Just an update...we went to the NPT showroom today. We first asked about micro pebble and they said they didn’t have the pebble ingredients for it. We then asked about mini pebbles and after a few minutes were advised that they have NO pebbles right now. We then asked what color quartz finishes they had. The gentleman went in the back came out and apologized, stating that they are completely out of plaster and therefore NO pool finishes are available (They had gotten a truckload in last week, but it is already gone). He also stated that they are out of most tile as well and that people are settling for their “seventh or eighth“ choice!!! He *claims* it is a nationwide shortage.
 

Ellen M

Bronze Supporter
Oct 25, 2020
20
San Diego
Just an update...we went to the NPT showroom today. We first asked about micro pebble and they said they didn’t have the pebble ingredients for it. We then asked about mini pebbles and after a few minutes were advised that they have NO pebbles right now. We then asked what color quartz finishes they had. The gentleman went in the back came out and apologized, stating that they are completely out of plaster and therefore NO pool finishes are available (They had gotten a truckload in last week, but it is already gone). He also stated that they are out of most tile as well and that people are settling for their “seventh or eighth“ choice!!! He *claims* it is a nationwide shortage.
Hi. I wanted to hear back from the PB before replying. He noted, that it is true that NPT is out of stock on a lot of material. It is a very fluid situation. They do receive new material all the time. It appears to be a one day at a time. Hopefully you did get your interior finish since your reply last Tuesday.

We finally got our permit (after 152 days/21.7 wks of waiting!). We are expecting the layout on Thursday and then excavation. Updates to follow!