New build - Dallas (Prosper) - Decking stonework done

[ryanjayblair]

Hello all. I've been reviewing builds and information here for months. Dallas pool building is crazy right now and it's shocking how hard it is for the builder's to get through a design process. We are very close to signing a contract and are meeting with the builder today to clean up the design. It's close, but you will not random things that are off. The real goal of this design was pricing so that we could move forward. I was surprised by what impacted cost and simple changes to size had a dramatic impact. Skimmer/lights/steps/depths/etc will all be adjusted today. SWG will be discussed today but they already went down path of "no warranty".

This is a much more aggressive build than I was planning but this year has taught our family many things. It's time and if we are going to do it, let's make it something special and ideal for our family. Looking forward to your thoughts/suggestions/feedback. Every other builder used Pentair and I had a good feel for their stuff based on other builds on this site. Jandy, I don't have a clue. The bid is below.

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Pool and Spa: 814 SF / 142’ Per.
Dimensions: 37’ x 24’ Depth: 3’6” X 5’ X 4’ EST. Gallons 20,111

Excavation:

• Small track dig with access from side of property
• 2 Hours pre-grade 6 hours of excavation
• Access permission needed

Engineering:

• On-site analysis of soil stability by licensed structural engineer, post dig, to test soil stability- engineer specializes in commercial and residential aquatics
• Post excavation, pre gunite, chemical injections 10’ below excavation depth to minimize PVR (potential vertical rise) to =<1”

Steel:

• 10” x 10” Grid of 1/2” steel in pool walls, floors, steps/benches, structure wall footings
• 4 Bar box beam around top edge of shell, with 1/2" steel
• 10”x 10” Grid of 3/8” steel in equipment pad, outdoor kitchen pad, retaining walls and deck steps

Gunite:

• Lifetime Structural Warranty
• Pneumatically applied, 6-sack mix
• 6” Raised spa with 4” arm rest
• Gunite footings for equipment pad, retaining walls, deck steps, and outdoor kitchen footer

Plumbing/Electrical:

• Hand dug trenches with lines laid out flat to minimize settling over time.
• No heating and bending
• Schedule 40 PVC pipe all pressure tested throughout construction
• All connections made using commercial grade, gray PVC glue
• 2 1/2" Suction on filter pump drains
• 2 1/2" suction and return from/to spa for increased performance >8 Spa jets
• 2" Suction from skimmers (2), plumbed separately
• Overflow drain placed in skimmer throat
• Water fill line to nearest hose bib
• 98’ Gas line to heater
• 146’ Gas line to grill and line burner
• All electrical lines in grey conduit housing
• 1 Flood light at pool equipment on a on/off switch

Equipment:

• Pro-Edge dealer warranty of 3 years, including parts and labor
• Main circulation pump: Jandy Pro Series ePump2.7hp variable speed
• Jandy “water polishing” CL 580 filter
• Jandy Jxi 400K BTU gas heater
• Polaris 280 automatic pool cleaner with ¾ hp booster pump
• Polaris 1.5 HP air blower
• 4. 12 W LED color pool/spa lights
• 2. 6W LED color lights, in the spa corner in trough and in between stepping pads in pool
• In-Line chlorinating system
• Pool control: RS-PS4 with iAquaLink automation kit
• Jandy never lube maintenance free pool valves
• Brass or aluminum skimmer lids, available in round or square
• 1. 84” manual ignition line burner

Stonework:

• Choice of 2” thick stone coping or 3cm Travertine coping
• Choice of stone veneer on all wall faces and stone cap

Tile:

• Standard 1”x1”, 1”x2” or 6”x6” band of frost proof, ceramic tile on water line of pool

Interior Finish:

• Pebble Sheen mini pebble finish (standard colors)

Decking:

• 1,190 SF of 12”x6” travertine pavers (ivory, walnut, noche)
• Laid over 4”-6” flex base made of crushed concrete material
• 6”-12” Turndown on perimeter of deck where needed
• Stone steps with choice of cap and stone veneer
• 4” Brass drain caps with network of 4” PVC drain system under decking
• 274 linear feet of synthetic turf in between deck

Outdoor Kitchen:

• Permits
• 104 SF of granite cap with veneer reinforced with CMU block on gunite footing
• 3 electrical outlets
• Gas line hook up to grill
• Plumbing for sink:
  • Cold water
  • Under sink pump for drainage to cleanout
  • Sewer line
• Hardware by homeowner
• Appliances by homeowner

Structure:

• 10’x16’ Overhang to overhang, 160 SF
• Permits, and engineered plan
• 6”x6” Metal post, metal frame with cedar slats on ceiling
• 1 Outlets
• 6 Dimmable can lights on a on/off switch
• 1 Fan Kit
• Cedar wall

Pool Start Up:

• Pool cleaning tool kit: test kit, brush, pole, leaf net and vacuum head and hose
• Complete pool start-up and pool school service by professional, certified and licensed pool service company

Yard Repair:

• 4 Sprinkler zones repair included. ***Additional money may be needed for additional sprinkler zone repair at homeowners’ expense.
• 5 Pallets of sod included Bermuda. ***Additional money may be needed for additional sod repair at homeowners’ expense

Fence:

• Take down fence panels at access and re-hang after deck installation
• Bring gates and fence to meet city codes

 

[JJ_Tex]

I like the design and do not know Jandy equipment, but a couple of things:

- I noticed you have chemical injections. Is that just standard practice from the builder or is there something in play here? I'm in prosper too and we had to do piers based on a retaining wall.
- I would ditch the polaris cleaner and go with a robot. They are newer technology and do not need a booster pump.
- Go for the salt. What is the "no warranty" bs he is talking about? The manufacturers do not void the warranty assuming he is using the correct materials.

 

[ryanjayblair]

I like the design and do not know Jandy equipment, but a couple of things:

- I noticed you have chemical injections. Is that just standard practice from the builder or is there something in play here? I'm in prosper too and we had to do piers based on a retaining wall.
- I would ditch the polaris cleaner and go with a robot. They are newer technology and do not need a booster pump.
- Go for the salt. What is the "no warranty" bs he is talking about? The manufacturers do not void the warranty assuming he is using the correct materials.

He said Jandy wouldn't warranty the equipment. I blew off the comment based on what I have read here. Yes, robot and SWG are on the list for today.

They inject regardless of need for piers as standard practice. If engineering comes back with a need for them, then we will go that direction. We are in Windsong Ranch. Lot was created in 2013 and we back up to the daycare on 423. No retaining wall but large slope back there. The pool is about 30' from the slope. The soil here sucks but I am hoping we don't incur the additional cost for piers which I assume will be north of 10k?

Thank you for the feedback.

 

[HermanTX]

Hi fellow Texan. The design is beautiful and inclusion of an outdoor kitchen and bar is all the better. I cannot comment on Jandy equipment other then I have been pleased with my automation system for many years. I see they recommended the RS-PS4 which is the base unit. The PS6 or 8 will give you more versatility for the future. You may want to research this more.

I notice there is an inline chlorinator but you comment a possibility of installing a SWG. Don't install the chlorinator if you go with a SWG.
Also, you have a pressure side cleaner, the Polaris 280. You mentioned that you were researching this forum for months so I am sure you know there is a preference by many to go to a robot. I feel it is a personal preference but if you are seriously considering a pressure side cleaner there are better models than the 280 by Polaris.

The only item that struck me when I looked at your layout is your equipment pad. It appears it will be in direct sun all the time. It is nice you have it isolated behind a wall however, you may want to consider an extended roof over it if that is feasible. It is great you are putting a light over it but a sunshade of some sorts will help as well.

 

[Jimrahbe]

He said Jandy wouldn't warranty the equipment.

RJB,

Did you tell him that Jandy makes and sells several salt systems, so it makes zero sense that they would not warranty a saltwater pool???

Ask to see that in the Jandy warranty disclosure..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ryanjayblair]

Hi fellow Texan. The design is beautiful and inclusion of an outdoor kitchen and bar is all the better. I cannot comment on Jandy equipment other then I have been pleased with my automation system for many years. I see they recommended the RS-PS4 which is the base unit. The PS6 or 8 will give you more versatility for the future. You may want to research this more.

I notice there is an inline chlorinator but you comment a possibility of installing a SWG. Don't install the chlorinator if you go with a SWG.
Also, you have a pressure side cleaner, the Polaris 280. You mentioned that you were researching this forum for months so I am sure you know there is a preference by many to go to a robot. I feel it is a personal preference but if you are seriously considering a pressure side cleaner there are better models than the 280 by Polaris.

The only item that struck me when I looked at your layout is your equipment pad. It appears it will be in direct sun all the time. It is nice you have it isolated behind a wall however, you may want to consider an extended roof over it if that is feasible. It is great you are putting a light over it but a sunshade of some sorts will help as well.

Thank you. I will research the larger control centers. Yes, chlorinator will be removed as well as cleaner. Hadn't thought about direct sunlight on equipment. I'll discuss with builder.

RJB,

Did you tell him that Jandy makes and sells several salt systems, so it makes zero sense that they would not warranty a saltwater pool???

Ask to see that in the Jandy warranty disclosure..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim, I didn't give them a hard time on it as it seems to be a common comment from builders as evidenced by other posts here. I'll press on them today.

 

[ryanjayblair]

Any guidance on light and skimmer placement?

 

[Sparks22]

I like the design. My only concern is, how do you get into the spa? I'm tired so I might be over thinking it, but it seems like there could be a danger of slipping while trying to get into the spa since every side is an angled edge?

 

[Whiskeyfox]

Everyone is anti salt in texas. I trust the thousands on this forum over pool builders that have been doing it the same way for 20 years. With that said I'd still avoid flagstone or limestone if you're going salt. Travertine or tumbled marble for the coping is worth it.

Tell your builder you want salt, it's not his decision it's yours. Imagine going to a car dealership and spending 50k but the dealer tells you that you don't want a sun roof or the nav screen even when you do. It might cost more in the long run per year but it's worth it to reduce the amount of daily chemicals and lugging jugs of chlorine around.

I'll also add the angled spa ledge looks cool but I think you will grow to hate it quickly as it is a big hazard.

 

[JJ_Tex]

How did it go with the builder?

I dont see your lights or skimmers on the design, but I would assume you would want 2 skimmers and then maybe 3 lights in the pool and one in the spa all facing the raised wall and equipment pad.

I think Sparks has a good point on the spa entrance/exit.

Also, will the green strips of grass around the pool be artificial? Real grass would be almost impossible to maintain. From a personal standpoint, I'm not a huge fan of those strips of grass/rocks/mulch since they break up your useable deck area and look like a pain to maintain, but they seem to be in a lot of the new designs.

 

[Ourad]

Most likely turf. I am looking at a similar pattern but not sure if I’m completely sold. They are pretty low maintenance I believe, and if I guess if you have to get under the deck it’s a bit easier with pavers than having to break up a whole area of deck. I think the turf tends to stand up a bit above the pavers and just seems to be a trip hazard IMO. Wife likes the look though so....

 

[jark87]

Your design looks fantastic! We’re in Flower Mound and Claffey Pools out of Southlake built our pool. They did a great job - no build-related issues in over 13 years. As others have said, go with salt. My regular pool chemical maintenance is adding a little acid each week - that’s it. We have flagstone coping and the spa is a stacked flagstone. The only erosion we’ve had is where I left a wet cushion under the cover on the spa ledge for a prolonged period. And even then it was only minor - not even noticeable.

One other item to consider is a chiller, especially if your pool will have sun exposure all day. We added ours several years after the original build, as we got tired of 95 degree water. It allowed us to reclaim the pool for full summers of enjoyment. You can always see how your water does over a summer or two, but you might want to make sure you have plenty of space in the equipment area.

Congrats on the decision! As you said at the outset, this year made us really appreciate having a backyard retreat.

 

[ryanjayblair]

I like the design. My only concern is, how do you get into the spa? I'm tired so I might be over thinking it, but it seems like there could be a danger of slipping while trying to get into the spa since every side is an angled edge?

Thank you. This has created a big discussion between my wife and I. We agree and additionally would like the ability to sit on the edge of the hot tub.

Everyone is anti salt in texas. I trust the thousands on this forum over pool builders that have been doing it the same way for 20 years. With that said I'd still avoid flagstone or limestone if you're going salt. Travertine or tumbled marble for the coping is worth it.

Tell your builder you want salt, it's not his decision it's yours. Imagine going to a car dealership and spending 50k but the dealer tells you that you don't want a sun roof or the nav screen even when you do. It might cost more in the long run per year but it's worth it to reduce the amount of daily chemicals and lugging jugs of chlorine around.

I'll also add the angled spa ledge looks cool but I think you will grow to hate it quickly as it is a big hazard.

agree. We have converted to salt. I’ll post the new quote shortly.

How did it go with the builder?

I dont see your lights or skimmers on the design, but I would assume you would want 2 skimmers and then maybe 3 lights in the pool and one in the spa all facing the raised wall and equipment pad.

I think Sparks has a good point on the spa entrance/exit.

Also, will the green strips of grass around the pool be artificial? Real grass would be almost impossible to maintain. From a personal standpoint, I'm not a huge fan of those strips of grass/rocks/mulch since they break up your useable deck area and look like a pain to maintain, but they seem to be in a lot of the new designs.

Meeting went well. Yes, there are 5 lights in the pool all facing the equipment wall. The skimmers are on opposite corners. The grass will be artificial turf. Decking/coping is all tevertine

Most likely turf. I am looking at a similar pattern but not sure if I’m completely sold. They are pretty low maintenance I believe, and if I guess if you have to get under the deck it’s a bit easier with pavers than having to break up a whole area of deck. I think the turf tends to stand up a bit above the pavers and just seems to be a trip hazard IMO. Wife likes the look though so....

we visited another of their builds and the turf is at that home is just above the stone so the base isn’t below the travertine and it feels level to walk on or for furniture.

Your design looks fantastic! We’re in Flower Mound and Claffey Pools out of Southlake built our pool. They did a great job - no build-related issues in over 13 years. As others have said, go with salt. My regular pool chemical maintenance is adding a little acid each week - that’s it. We have flagstone coping and the spa is a stacked flagstone. The only erosion we’ve had is where I left a wet cushion under the cover on the spa ledge for a prolonged period. And even then it was only minor - not even noticeable.

One other item to consider is a chiller, especially if your pool will have sun exposure all day. We added ours several years after the original build, as we got tired of 95 degree water. It allowed us to reclaim the pool for full summers of enjoyment. You can always see how your water does over a summer or two, but you might want to make sure you have plenty of space in the equipment area.

Congrats on the decision! As you said at the outset, this year made us really appreciate having a backyard retreat.

We met with Mike Farley and Claffey after seeing great reviews on this website. It didn’t work out for us with them but Mike was great. We will be setting up the equipment pad for the chiller but are not adding it currently.

 

[ryanjayblair]

Updated equipment model list:

All Jandy

>Pump: VSSHP270AUT

>Filter: DEV60

>Heater: JXI400NK

>Computer: RS-PS6+IQ20-A

>Salt water automation: 6613AP+FSOFT1400

>Lights: JLU4C12W100

Updated hot tub design attached. Still awaiting spousal approval.

 

[Sparks22]

That spa design looks much more usable.

If you are wanting anything more than a slow trickle over the edge (given the large amount of linear feet of the spa edge), make sure that you run large pipe between the pool/spa and the equipment pad. You are going to want to have as low of a dynamic head as possible to push that amount of water over the edge. For reference, my neighbor has a spillway that is about 5 feet long and can only get a trickle over the edge because they only used 2" pipe. I'd suggest using 3" pipe for the suction from the pool and return to the spa to have a chance at a good amount of flow over the spa spillway.

 

[ryanjayblair]

Thank you. I’ll discuss with the builder. Spousal approval failed so we are back to overflow but with rounded edge on inside. This seems to make entry and exit easier and safer.

 

[JJ_Tex]

I like the look of it, but are you supposed to step from the decking to the tile to the spa seat? Stepping from the decking to the spa bench would be a pretty big step.

 

[Jimmie48]

I am fairly certain I know your builder, but if you like I can pm you. I just got done this past summer with my build and I will shoot you any info you need or want to ask if need be. Overall I really like your design. I want to make sure you understand your overflow from the spa will not be a rushing fall like they show in that picture. It is definitely more of a trickle depending on how fast you run your pump, but you will not see a separation between the tile and the water flowing out from the top as pictured so keep that in mind. IT will basically just run down the tile in a little sheer.

Also for that sunken bar...make sure the drainage is very good as you dont want stagnant water in there at all....algae and mess will occur. Good luck I cannot wait to see this one done!

 

[ryanjayblair]

Fully aware there will be no major flow of water from the spa and have added 3 jets/fountain things to between pool and feature wall for sound.

Bar is sunken 18” which is max for drainage to street without pump. It will also still 9” above the fence line so we will have weep holes or whatever in case there is a backup in the drains.

I like the look of it, but are you supposed to step from the decking to the tile to the spa seat? Stepping from the decking to the spa bench would be a pretty big step.

I guess we imagined not hopping in but sitting on edge and turning into hot tub with legs. Let me think about that more. Spouse would like to not raise the hot tub higher as it would raise the fire pit higher too.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

One thing we decided that would have been nice, is to have a step into the spa. It is a big step down 19" to the seat. Having a small pad in the spa to cut that in half would have been nice. Just something to consider.

When I replaster in 20 years (hopefully can go that long with the TFP care!) we will add a step. By that time we will be older and hopefully still won't 'need' it, but just be nice to have.

--Jeff