New Build - Austin, Texas - Gunite Repair Question

Sparks22

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Apr 17, 2020
167
Austin, Texas
Well I woke up to a random text that today was dig day. A great surprise, but a little more notification would have been nice. The person doing the excavation said that he should be able to finish up tomorrow.

2020-08-11 12.15.29.jpg2020-08-11 17.06.14.jpg2020-08-11 18.07.56.jpg
 

kimkats

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Jul 10, 2012
46,627
Tallahassee, FL
What?? What is that?? Oh the home owner needs to know they are coming to dig up their yard????? :shock: REALLY PB YEAH the home owners NEEDS a heads up long before they show up!!! sigh........

Once he says he is done run out there with the plans and a tape measure. Is it long, wide, deep, etc enough? Add about 8" for the steel, shell, and plaster.

OH and LET THE MUD BEGIN!!

Kim:kim:
 

Sparks22

Gold Supporter
Apr 17, 2020
167
Austin, Texas
The dig has been completed! Generally looks pretty good. Once the forms are up, we are going to remeasure everything to make sure it all comes out as expected. Here are few pictures. 5 year old for scale.

2020-08-12 18.37.15.jpg2020-08-12 18.37.21.jpg
2020-08-12 18.39.57.jpg
 
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Sparks22

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Apr 17, 2020
167
Austin, Texas
The framers did some more work today, but some adjustments are needed. Meeting with the owner of the company doing the framing and steel tomorrow to get the framing fixed first thing, then they will start on the steel later in the day.

I have taken notes on the plumbing schematic from earlier comments, along with comments from the Pentair rep helping our PB, and come up with the attached plumbing schematic. Does anyone see any problems with how the plumbing design is laid out?
 

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Jimrahbe

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TFP Expert
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Jul 7, 2014
19,094
Bedford, TX
22,

Other than the fact that you will need to wear ear defenders when you go into your backyard, I only see a couple of things that I would change in the plumbing..

I would eliminate the manual 3 way valves on the pool suction side and put a manual 2- way valve on each input.

Pool Vac line... 2-way valve at the pad.
Skimmer #1... 2-way valve at the pad.
Skimmer #2... 2-way valve at the pad.
Main Drain.... 2-way valve at the pad.

This allows you to open or close or adjust the flow on each line independently.. You just can not do that with your current set up..

There is one downside to using the programmed Spa Spillway Mode. When in the spillway mode you will not have any water coming out of your pool returns.. If you plan on running your spillover a lot, it would make sense to add a automated "Make up system" so that you could run the spillway and the pool returns at the same time..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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Sparks22

Gold Supporter
Apr 17, 2020
167
Austin, Texas
22,

Other than the fact that you will need to wear ear defenders when you go into your backyard, I only see a couple of things that I would change in the plumbing..

I would eliminate the manual 3 way valves on the pool suction side and put a manual 2- way valve on each input.

Pool Vac line... 2-way valve at the pad.
Skimmer #1... 2-way valve at the pad.
Skimmer #2... 2-way valve at the pad.
Main Drain.... 2-way valve at the pad.

This allows you to open or close or adjust the flow on each line independently.. You just can not do that with your current set up..

There is one downside to using the programmed Spa Spillway Mode. When in the spillway mode you will not have any water coming out of your pool returns.. If you plan on running your spillover a lot, it would make sense to add a automated "Make up system" so that you could run the spillway and the pool returns at the same time..

Thanks,

Jim R.
Thanks Jim, good points!

Could you please expand on what you mean by the "make up system"? I'm not sure I follow what that would look like.
 

Sparks22

Gold Supporter
Apr 17, 2020
167
Austin, Texas
@MyAZPool

The Pentair vendor is saying my plumbing for the pump with the sheers and slide doesn't make sense, because the pump can only be set to 2 speeds?

I was thinking I would be able to set a sheer only program with pump speed X, a water slide program with pump speed Y, and a sheer and water slide program with pump speed X+Y. Is that not a possible setup with the Intellicenter (3 programs with 3 different pump speeds)?

If that isn't possible, any other ideas on how to automate independent control of the sheets versus water slide?
 

MyAZPool

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Jul 3, 2018
1,539
Arizona
Sparks22
I have not taken a look at your thread since you posted your attached diagram.
The Pentair vendor is saying my plumbing for the pump with the sheers and slide doesn't make sense, because the pump can only be set to 2 speeds?
I think I would agree with the rep. With regards to the sheer/slide pump, why didn't you just use one IntelliValve at the first tee? If it were my pool, I don't think I would have plumbed it in quite that same manner.
I was thinking I would be able to set a sheer only program with pump speed X, a water slide program with pump speed Y, and a sheer and water slide program with pump speed X+Y. Is that not a possible setup with the Intellicenter (3 programs with 3 different pump speeds)?

If that isn't possible, any other ideas on how to automate independent control of the sheets versus water slide?
You can have one Circuit group (macro). Lets call it SHEERS, that activates that sheer pump, sets it at the pump speed that you have chosen for that program (macro) and actuates the IntelliValve to allow water flow to the sheers.

Same principle applies for the slide.

You can have up to 16 Circuit Group (macros).
r.
 

Sparks22

Gold Supporter
Apr 17, 2020
167
Austin, Texas
Sparks22
I have not taken a look at your thread since you posted your attached diagram.

I think I would agree with the rep. With regards to the sheer/slide pump, why didn't you just use one IntelliValve at the first tee? If it were my pool, I don't think I would have plumbed it in quite that same manner.

You can have one Circuit group (macro). Lets call it SHEERS, that activates that sheer pump, sets it at the pump speed that you have chosen for that program (macro) and actuates the IntelliValve to allow water flow to the sheers.

Same principle applies for the slide.

You can have up to 16 Circuit Group (macros).
r.
Thanks @MyAZPool. I was trying to be able to control sheers only, slide only, or sheers and slide at the same time. I don't think I would be able to do that with a single IntelliValve?

So it isn't possible to have one circuit group SHEERS, one circuit group SLIDE, and a third circuit group SHEERSANDSLIDE?
 

MyAZPool

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Jul 3, 2018
1,539
Arizona
Thanks @MyAZPool. I was trying to be able to control sheers only, slide only, or sheers and slide at the same time. I don't think I would be able to do that with a single IntelliValve?

So it isn't possible to have one circuit group SHEERS, one circuit group SLIDE, and a third circuit group SHEERSANDSLIDE?
Oh, I gotcha... Okay you want sheers and slide both at the same time. Fancy!! (and what kind of pump again are you planning on using for these two water features?)
Okay, now your diagram makes sense.
I don't see why you can't do that. Each valve is associated with a Feature Circuit. Each Pump Speed is associated with a Feature Circuit.
There are no limitations on the amount of Feature Circuits that can be embedded within a Circuit Group that I am aware of.
So yea,
Macro #1 SHEERS
Macro #2 SLIDE
Macro #3 SHEER/SLID
It will take a bit of playing around with the IntelliValves to get the HOME and 2ND Positions correctly configured for each IntelliValve but it should be doable.
NOTE: Careful in your naming conventions coz similar names confuses the Alexa Skill if that is EVER fixed. ;)

What reason does the rep give as to why he/she doesn't think it will work?
r.
 
Last edited:

MyAZPool

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Jul 3, 2018
1,539
Arizona
@Sparks22
Just looking over your plumbing diagram again. In the symbol key, you list 4 IntelliValves.
I count 5 in the diagram. 5 IntelliValves will require a "Valve Expansion Module" that will slide connect to the left of the daughter card.
What model of IntelliCenter are you choosing? (i5PS, i8PS, i10PS)
r.
EDIT: Disregard... I mistook one of your check valves for an "I". "Old Eyes" :p - Sorry
 

Sparks22

Gold Supporter
Apr 17, 2020
167
Austin, Texas
@Sparks22
Just looking over your plumbing diagram again. In the symbol key, you list 4 IntelliValves.
I count 5 in the diagram. 5 IntelliValves will require a "Valve Expansion Module" that will slide connect to the left of the daughter card.
What model of IntelliCenter are you choosing? (i5PS, i8PS, i10PS)
r.
EDIT: Disregard... I mistook one of your check valves for an "I". "Old Eyes" :p - Sorry
Ha! No worries! Thanks for all the help!

It will be a Intelliflo VSF pump for those features.

This is a quote of why it "won't" work from the Pentair rep:

"If you set 2 intellivalves then there isn't enough flow. IE sheers set at 72 gpm and slide at 50 gpm, the pump will not run at 122 gpm. It will take the highest value of 72 gpm. If we set sheers at 72 gpm then put the intellivalve on the slide then set it at 122 gpm. We then get both. We may improve intellicenter to enable macros that have speeds programmed with them in that case 2 intellivalves would work. Setting 3 speeds total would be great. So setting a 3 way before the features and 2 ways on each line would allow for this improvement in later revisions. I know, I am in beta and took the time to test this today."

I feel like the Pentair guy is just mistaken from all of my reading, but the Pentair guy is giving me doubt since.. well he should know his product!

Your thoughts jive with all my reading, so I am going to see if I can talk to this guy on the phone and get it sorted.

Edit: Missed your last questions. Intellicenter i10PS + extra comm card + extra valve card
 

MyAZPool

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
1,539
Arizona
Ha! No worries! Thanks for all the help!
It will be a Intelliflo VSF pump for those features.
This is a quote of why it "won't" work from the Pentair rep:

"If you set 2 intellivalves then there isn't enough flow. IE sheers set at 72 gpm and slide at 50 gpm, the pump will not run at 122 gpm. It will take the highest value of 72 gpm. If we set sheers at 72 gpm then put the intellivalve on the slide then set it at 122 gpm. We then get both. We may improve intellicenter to enable macros that have speeds programmed with them in that case 2 intellivalves would work. Setting 3 speeds total would be great. So setting a 3 way before the features and 2 ways on each line would allow for this improvement in later revisions. I know, I am in beta and took the time to test this today."
His statement makes no sense to me. When you open both of those valves simultaneously via the macro, then the only question is whether or not the pump can provide enough flow rate.

You won't be running two different speeds at the same time. It will be one speed programmed to provide enough flow for both water features when in the "SHEER/SLID Circuit Group macro.

As an example: NOTE: The flow rates for the VSF or VF pump are just approximate to provide the example

Macro #1 SHEERS. For this macro, the pump Feature Circuit associated flow rate might be 80 GPM .
Macro #2 SLIDE. For this macro, the pump Feature Circuit associated flow rate might be 40 GPM .
Macro #3 SHEER/SLID. For this macro, the pump Feature Circuit associated flow rate might be 120 GPM.

I'm not so sure he (the rep) knows exactly how the Feature Circuits are associated with different pump speeds and flows in the pumps page and how that works when those Feature Circuits are embedded in the Circuit Groups. It's not that difficult but me thinks he has his "wires crossed".

I think the only thing that you need to know is if the maximum flow rate provided by your pump can provide enough flow for both the slide and the sheers. If I had to guess, I would say yes (maximum for the VSF is 140GPM). I'm not a pump/flow/head loss guru at all. But there are some here. @Jimrahbe knows them all, so maybe he can call on the right folks that can take a look at the variables for you and tell you if that pump can do both the sheers and the slide, so long as you can provide all of the info they need to give you the answer.

r.
 

Sparks22

Gold Supporter
Apr 17, 2020
167
Austin, Texas
His statement makes no sense to me. When you open both of those valves simultaneously via the macro, then the only question is whether or not the pump can provide enough flow rate.

You won't be running two different speeds at the same time. It will be one speed programmed to provide enough flow for both water features when in the "SHEER/SLID Circuit Group macro.

As an example: NOTE: The flow rates for the VSF or VF pump are just approximate to provide the example

Macro #1 SHEERS. For this macro, the pump Feature Circuit associated flow rate might be 80 GPM .
Macro #2 SLIDE. For this macro, the pump Feature Circuit associated flow rate might be 40 GPM .
Macro #3 SHEER/SLID. For this macro, the pump Feature Circuit associated flow rate might be 120 GPM.

I'm not so sure he (the rep) knows exactly how the Feature Circuits are associated with different pump speeds and flows in the pumps page and how that works when those Feature Circuits are embedded in the Circuit Groups. It's not that difficult but me thinks he has his "wires crossed".

I think the only thing that you need to know is if the maximum flow rate provided by your pump can provide enough flow for both the slide and the sheers. If I had to guess, I would say yes (maximum for the VSF is 140GPM). I'm not a pump/flow/head loss guru at all. But there are some here. @Jimrahbe knows them all, so maybe he can call on the right folks that can take a look at the variables for you and tell you if that pump can do both the sheers and the slide, so long as you can provide all of the info they need to give you the answer.

r.
Thanks r.

You are pretty close on your hypothetical values. The slide needs 60 GPM and the sheers need 72 GPM, for a total of 132 GPM.

I am guessing about 60 feet of horizontal pipe, 6 feet up for the slide, 3 feet up for the sheers, probably 5ish 90 turns.

I don't know the calculation, but that kind of starts to make me wonder if 1 pump can run all of it.
 

MyAZPool

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
1,539
Arizona
Thanks r.
You are pretty close on your hypothetical values. The slide needs 60 GPM and the sheers need 72 GPM, for a total of 132 GPM.
I am guessing about 60 feet of horizontal pipe, 6 feet up for the slide, 3 feet up for the sheers, probably 5ish 90 turns.
I don't know the calculation, but that kind of starts to make me wonder if 1 pump can run all of it.
I can't help you there but I think you're on the right track. Have you taken a look at the IntelliFloXF VSF (02256) to see how that specs out against the 01156? You have 3" plumbing shown in your diagram and the XF calls for 3" minimum I know.
r.
 

Sparks22

Gold Supporter
Apr 17, 2020
167
Austin, Texas
I can't help you there but I think you're on the right track. Have you taken a look at the IntelliFloXF VSF (02256) to see how that specs out against the 01156? You have 3" plumbing shown in your diagram and the XF calls for 3" minimum I know.
r.
Huh. Very interesting idea about the bigger pump. I didn't realize that one existed. Thanks! More research to do!
 
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