New austin, tx pool startup

march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
I posted this in BBB, but it seems like no one reads that forum. This one seems more appropriate so posting here.

Our pool is filling even as we speak. I wanted to check my numbers:

pH 8+ (color was darker than 8.0)
TA 140ppm
CH 175ppm

pool specs are in my sig.

Targets
FC 5 - 185 oz 6% bleach
pH 7.2 67 oz 31.45% muriatic acid
CYA 40 - 95 oz by weight of stabilizer

Any other things to worry about? They plastered diamondbrite yesterday and did a water wash.

PB said we can swim in a day or two. Pool school says 30 days (which isnt happening) When can we swim?
 

march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
march2012 said:
I posted this in BBB, but it seems like no one reads that forum. This one seems more appropriate so posting here.

Our pool is filling even as we speak. I wanted to check my numbers:

pH 8+ (color was darker than 8.0)
TA 140ppm
CH 175ppm

pool specs are in my sig.

Targets
FC 5 - 185 oz 6% bleach
pH 7.2 67 oz 31.45% muriatic acid
CYA 40 - 95 oz by weight of stabilizer

Any other things to worry about? They plastered diamondbrite yesterday and did a water wash.

PB said we can swim in a day or two. Pool school says 30 days (which isnt happening) When can we swim?

this is what I was planning to do

Turn the pump on the low setting
pb gave me dry acid
Im going to dissolve 67 ounces of dry acid into a 5 gallon bucket of water and slowly pour it in front of the returns
Im going to put 95 oz of stabilizer into a mesh bag and hang in front of a return
Im going to pour 185oz of 6% bleach slowly in front of a return.

Im going to measure my chemistry in the morning and early evening.

Im using the taylor 2006 kit
 

TomTinNC

Well-known member
Apr 13, 2012
67
Wilmington, NC
I don't know that I'd add acid or anything to adjust pH until the pool is filled. Once the pool is completely filled, run the numbers then. Whatever pool calculator says you need to add to get your CYA's to the desired amount you can add. Instead of putting it in a mesh bag in front of an outlet, I believe the advice here has been to put it into a sock in the skimmer. They CYA will slowly dissolve and take awhile to show up in your tests, so wait a week after you add to test those CYA levels, and make sure you do it in indirect sunlight. I have found the CYA testing to be very subjective, and particularly different results in differing amounts of sunlight. I have decided to only check CYA levels at noonish with my back to the sun holding the thing near my waist. I have finally arrived at consistent measurements there. Probably wouldn't hurt to add the bleach to get the Free Chlorine Levels up while the pool is filling. Once the pool is filled put up your numbers. This stuff works, it is truly amazing how bad my pool was in February compared to how good it looks now. I am a believer.
 

march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
TomTinNC said:
I don't know that I'd add acid or anything to adjust pH until the pool is filled. Once the pool is completely filled, run the numbers then. Whatever pool calculator says you need to add to get your CYA's to the desired amount you can add. Instead of putting it in a mesh bag in front of an outlet, I believe the advice here has been to put it into a sock in the skimmer. They CYA will slowly dissolve and take awhile to show up in your tests, so wait a week after you add to test those CYA levels, and make sure you do it in indirect sunlight. I have found the CYA testing to be very subjective, and particularly different results in differing amounts of sunlight. I have decided to only check CYA levels at noonish with my back to the sun holding the thing near my waist. I have finally arrived at consistent measurements there. Probably wouldn't hurt to add the bleach to get the Free Chlorine Levels up while the pool is filling. Once the pool is filled put up your numbers. This stuff works, it is truly amazing how bad my pool was in February compared to how good it looks now. I am a believer.

Yeah not adding any chemicals until pool is filled.

I reread the cya section and you are right I should put the CYA in a sock in the skimmer. I just thought a mesh bag was nicer than a sock. I have lots of different kinds with very fine mesh bags.

Ill rerun my numbers, just a few more hours until the pool is full. I think it will have taken 36 hours as we started at 4 pm yesterday and it looks like maybe 6 more hours, so 4am tomorrow.

Looks like PB gave me liquid muriatic acid, not solid. but I have all the needed chemicals now. I just wanted to confirm, do I need to get to shock levels?

Also should I start adding chemicals once it is full and the pump is running?

pool school says not to change filter after adding cya for a week, but because of brushing the plaster the filter will probably get full right away. What should I do in that case?
 

TomTinNC

Well-known member
Apr 13, 2012
67
Wilmington, NC
As soon as you are able, I'd start running the pumps, that is major. Personally, it has been my experience that circulating water through filters is secondary only to maintaining chlorine levels to keep the pool clean. I don't know about taking the pool to shock. I'd just put it at proper FC levels to match your calculations for what your CYA will arrive at once it dissolves in the water. If you don't see any combined chlorine in the drop test....then I doubt you'd need to shock the pool. Just get the FC's up to where the pool calculator says they need to be at. Then adjust the pH, and life should be golden. I use liquid Muriatic Acid from the hardware store to drop the pH. I used to use Baking Soda to raise it, but think I'll stay with Borax for the most part from now on. If you overdid the chlorine and went to shock levels, I don't think you'd be hurting anything, but if you have no CCs.....and the water is clear (which I'm assuming a fresh fill is looking clear), then there would be no reason to shock. Bleach, Baking Soda, Borax. I'm sold. You'll be swimming in no time.
 

jblizzle

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 19, 2010
43,238
Tucson, AZ
There is nothing wrong with hanging the CYA in front of a return. In fact doing that will allow you to backwashing without loosing as much.

Get the pH to where the builder recommends for the new finish ... that and CH can affect the curing I think.

You should not need to shock since it is new water. Just bring the FC level into the recommended range for the amount of CYA you are adding.

Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone :)
 

march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
jblizzle said:
There is nothing wrong with hanging the CYA in front of a return. In fact doing that will allow you to backwashing without loosing as much.

Get the pH to where the builder recommends for the new finish ... that and CH can affect the curing I think.

You should not need to shock since it is new water. Just bring the FC level into the recommended range for the amount of CYA you are adding.

Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone :)

I have a cartridge filter, so no backwashing is necessary. Does it still apply? I do think it makes more sense to put it in front of a return so it just gets pushed into the pool
 

jblizzle

Mod Squad
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May 19, 2010
43,238
Tucson, AZ
Sorry. Thought I had read something about backwashing here ... must have been a different thread. You would need to avoid cleaning the cartridge for awhile if you dumped it into the skimmer. A sock in the skimmer might be ok too. I just think putting it in front of the return makes loosing any due to filter work less likely.
 

march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
jblizzle said:
Sorry. Thought I had read something about backwashing here ... must have been a different thread. You would need to avoid cleaning the cartridge for awhile if you dumped it into the skimmer. A sock in the skimmer might be ok too. I just think putting it in front of the return makes loosing any due to filter work less likely.
pool is full now so im ready for startup. the system has no power so i couldnt turn anything on, i guess I have to wait for the pb
 

mcoonan

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 1, 2008
292
Mendota Heights, MN
Never put anything in the skimmer unless you are running the pump 24/7. You do not want the concetrated chemical sitting in the basket and pipe.
I would make sure that your chems meet the PB recomendations and also the manufacturer of the plaster recomendations so it does not void the warrenty. Some of them are very picky. Make sure to document all your test results and post them here also.
 

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march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
so I figured out how to turn it on and have everyhting running. I figured out what all the pipes are. I have a couple of questions

1) how much suction should the skimmers have? It doesnt seem like there is much if any flow
2) there is a pipe for the spa that has two small holes (1/8 inch?) that spray out water. My neighbors said they had that too and it is some kind of relief?
3) I have added 64 oz of muriatic to the pool and the pH is still reading above 8. this seems weird, I tested the kit with 50% regular vinegar mixed with tap water and was able to get the bright yellow so Im sure Im doing the test right. Should I keep adding acid?

I accidentally added too much chlorine, - about 272 fl oz because I thought the bottles were 128, not 182. FC is measuring 7ppm
 

Bama Rambler

Mod Squad
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Jun 22, 2009
24,208
SouthWest Alabama
1) the skimmers should have enough flow that they pull the surface of the water about 1 foot out toward the mouth. Are the weirs in place and working correctly?
2) No idea on this. :(
3) You should test and add acid about every hour until it comes into range.

Don't worry about it it'll go down pretty quickly.
 

march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
Bama Rambler said:
1) the skimmers should have enough flow that they pull the surface of the water about 1 foot out toward the mouth. Are the weirs in place and working correctly?
2) No idea on this. :(
3) You should test and add acid about every hour until it comes into range.

Don't worry about it it'll go down pretty quickly.

taylor kit took 5 drops for acid demand. On the chart for a 20K pool that is ~2.5 quarts which is 2.5 times what the pool calculator said. Is it because my ph was so off initially?
 

march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
Bama Rambler said:
1) the skimmers should have enough flow that they pull the surface of the water about 1 foot out toward the mouth. Are the weirs in place and working correctly?
2) No idea on this. :(
3) You should test and add acid about every hour until it comes into range.

Don't worry about it it'll go down pretty quickly.

The weirs are in place, not sure if they are working correctly. Even with the pump on high speed they arent laying flat they are almost fully closed. I guess surges of water would push them down. But should the skimmer actually suck water so the weir is wide open?

I have my cya sitting in a skimmer and Im worried that the skimmer isnt really drawing any water.
 

Bama Rambler

Mod Squad
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Jun 22, 2009
24,208
SouthWest Alabama
The acid demand is because your pH is so far off.

They should 'ride' just under the surface of the water. That improves surface flow.

Do you have your main drains wide open?
Are the main drains plumbed independant from the skimmers? If so you may need to close them off a bit.
 

march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
Bama Rambler said:
The acid demand is because your pH is so far off.

They should 'ride' just under the surface of the water. That improves surface flow.

Do you have your main drains wide open?
Are the main drains plumbed independant from the skimmers? If so you may need to close them off a bit.

it turns out the skimmers still had the square head plugs in them. The PB came out this afternoon and removed them and now the skimmers are now skimming. CYA got sucked in and is starting to go up now. Measured CYA and it is measuring a bit more than zero. Doesnt help the two bottles of bleach I put in :) But by tomorrow I should be able to add bleach to get the FC up.

There was water coming out of the spa plumbing embedded but exposed in the side of the spa. Apparently the stone contractors had nailed pieces of wood to it to support some stonework. PB drained the spa and is fixing the piping with epoxy in the holes. Is that going to be ok?

One of the valves has a leak, PB wants to just patch the valve. Plumber said it was the valve itself and it leaked in the pressure test. I think PB should remove the valve.

Plumber hooked up the input for the booster pump for polaris 280 to the spa bubbler instead of the main return.

electrician wired up the pump wrong

Seems like good contractors are hard to find.
 

supertune

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LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2011
447
Clearwater, FL.
Hi march2012,
No way I would settle for patch work on a brand new in ground 18,000 gallon pool build! :evil:
And with having for work years to pay off!
Make the PB, make it a brand new pool, that's what you paid for. :hammer:
Epoxy? Are you joking?, NO ******* way! :rant:
If your lucky that might last 2 years, then what are you going to do when it leaks again? :roll:

Chuck
 

Bama Rambler

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Jun 22, 2009
24,208
SouthWest Alabama
I'd have them replace the valve unless it's a Jandy style valve and can be rebuilt. If the body is leaking it has to be replaced.

Are the holes in the pipes embedded in the shell or outside the shell? If they're outside the shell I'd want the sections replaced. Inside the shell I'd have to take a good look at it to see if epoxy is a good option.
 

march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
Bama Rambler said:
I'd have them replace the valve unless it's a Jandy style valve and can be rebuilt. If the body is leaking it has to be replaced.

Are the holes in the pipes embedded in the shell or outside the shell? If they're outside the shell I'd want the sections replaced. Inside the shell I'd have to take a good look at it to see if epoxy is a good option.

They did a bad job on the gunite for the exterior of the spa and the piping is in the shell but partially exposed. The nail holes are in the exposed portions.

I feel like they should be patching over the exposed piping anyway so digging it out fixing it properly then patching seems like a reasonable request. The leak in the valve was discovered by the PB and I dont think they were planning on telling me, but I discovered it myself.
 

march2012

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 21, 2012
472
TX
here are my numbers from this morning -

FC 9.5 after adding 182 oz of 6% clorox (only waited 15 minutes for it to circulate)
Ph 7 - is this bad? I overshot the acid a bit yesterday, I am running the bubbler continuously because I thought it would make pH go up
base demand 1 drop. I feel like this is pretty close, but please tell me if this is an emergency

TA 80
CC .5 (or less)
 

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