Need help with re-plaster start-up chemistry

[agodshal]

Plaster contractor acid washed and began fill. Doing start-up ourselves. Have the NPC start-up procedures.
Municipal water supply. Fill water test results:
FC & Total C=.09 ppm
pH=>8.6
Calcium Hardness=67
TA=79
CYA=2 ppm
Phosphate=181
Saturation index=0.33
Iron=0.2
Copper=0.1

Sequestering agent added.

We are at the end of Day 5, after filling, of the 31K gal white plaster pool.
We have added 10 qts of muriatic acid over 5 days. 9lbs . pH is consistently >8.6 per Taylor K-1000 Basic Test Kit (OT). (oops-R-0014 says expired 5/17.)
TA fell to 60 on Day 2. 9 lbs. Sodium Bicarbonate added on Day 2 and rose to 80. Day 5 TA=70.

No chlorine added yet. Nervous for algae. Anxious for chlorine, but want it to be added correctly. UltraPure Ozonator is on now. Last season's Frog Mineral Pack is still installed. After start-up is complete, we will add a new one. ARE THESE affecting the pH balance now?

Unheated water temp is 75, with mid-90's to 100+ degrees forecast for Sacramento region.

Some plaster dust evident.

1. Should I be seeing a pH drop yet?
2. Can I add chlorine before TA and pH are balanced? I have seen various start-up procedures that insist those two be in balance before proceeding with chlorine, CYA and calcium chloride.
3. What's the next step, and, roughly, how long until balanced and able to swim?

After start-up, I anticipate going back to the original builders successful process of an ozonator and Frog Mineral Pack, adding chlorine sticks to just maintain the sanitized water without harsh chlorine levels. (Unless there are concerns you are aware of)

I have been visiting TFP for 2 years and have found it to be most helpful and excellent, especially after I would get 2 different sets of test results from the same water sample at 2 different pool stores, with differing expensive products prescribed. Per TFP, I purchased the TF-100 test kit and became liberated from the local pool store.

Thanks for your help!

 

[kimkats]

Hi and welcome! Good job using the NPC card for the start up! That is my go to for a good start up.

pH-You are in a battle with the pH is winning. You need to get it down. Here is how you do it:

-Use Pool Math (we have an app for that if you interested. Let me know and I can send you the link.)
-Test and dose every 30 mins until you see the pH get down to 7.8. Put in 8.2 as the now and 7.5 as the target. That way you will not go too low. It is going to take a LOT of m.a. so be ready and use great care as you know those fumes are not fun. Make sure the pump is running on high to mix it in good.

New plaster will push the pH up as it cures. Some pools level off on the pH rise in 3 months. Some take as long as a year. That is where keeping a good log come in handy.

As soon as you have the pH in the 7s then you should get everything else in and jump in the pool!!

I have some reading for you about those mineral packs They do more harm than good in the long run. I would not buy a new one and I would be taking the old out out asap: Alternative sanitizers and pools--The Truth!!

The chlorine sticks have either CYA (stabilizer) or calcium hardness in them. The only way to get rid of these when they get too high is to drain and replace some of the water

Here is what we use: Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals and we don't even us all of it! I only use chlorine and muriatic acid in my pool so................you could save a LOT of money if you decide to go the whole TFP way!

Kim

 

[ManiacalMama]

I'm sorry I have zero advice to give for the start up process, I'm very new myself. I actually have a question agodshal -

I'm in the same area as you (Antelope) and have started to try and research pool re-plastering companies, but honestly have no idea where to start. Who did you use? Were you happy with them? And what kind of costs can I expect?

Good luck with your start up, hope you can get swimming soon, it's gonna be hot!

 

[agodshal]

ManiacalMama-Here in Roseville, I was in the same boat, not knowing who to go with and how much re-plastering can run. I received quotes from $6,100 to $7,800 for an 18'x36' rectangular pool, for only a basic white plaster, no tile cleaning or replacement. (We weren't looking for remodeling.) They measure perimeter when quoting. Roseville and Folsom require city permits to re-plaster. You must have a final inspection with door alarms, your gate and fence to code, with new pool splash alarms. Roseville wants to check your pool water if you want to dump down a storm drain. (no chlorinated pool water down to creeks, etc.) If you don't want to wait for their person to show up to certify no chlorine and you don't want buy chemicals to neutralize it, you can pay a $40 fee to drain into the city sewer. Plaster contractors ALL have at least a 4-8 week waiting line just before and during swim season. I used a new, less experienced general contractor that didn't have long wait, but encountered delays (because his subs overbooked) and other lesser issues, so I can't recommend them. The white plaster is beautiful again. The blue sky reflection in the pool is startling. I did receive a straight forward $6,100 quote from C&R Pool Plastering, which I think I would have gone with had there not been a wait. Burkett's would have been $7,495 (includes $350 permit fees) and Adams Pool Specialties was $7,790 (includes $400 permit fees). They do more plaster demo / removal, which I feel was overkill for the good construction of our pool that didn't have leaks or any issues. For some contractors, beware that your pool returns, if adjustable eyeballs, will be replaced with worthless straight returns if you don't insist otherwise. Some do a basic, one-time, included chemical start-up. Sac Valley Pool Service (a good pool service company with great reviews) will do a month-long start-up for $400, but I am not sure how much you still have to do. Tile cleaning companies run about $400. If you have a diving board, your pool diving envelope depth has to meet law, or the contractor will not be able to re-install it. The solution is to remove your board yourself (leave the stand there) and reinstall the board yourself when you are done. Hope this helps. I am a chemistry checkin' lady that needs a refreshing swim!

 

[ManiacalMama]

Wow, thank you so much. That is a lot of great information! We have a fairly simple pool, but the plaster is pretty deteriorated. It's not leaking just super ugly. No diving board, no adjustable eyeballs (just 3 returns), and our pool is a bit smaller than yours (approx 13.5 x 30) and we would go with white plaster more than likely.

I really hope you can get it all up and running soon! Would love to see pictures!

Thanks again for your detailed reply!

 

[agodshal]

Thank you for the help. Got dialed in and back in swimming. The article on Alternative sanitizers and pools--The Truth!! was informative.

 

[kimkats]

Happy heart here! Glad to hear it is going good! Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns.

Kim

 

[Dirk]

For some contractors, beware that your pool returns, if adjustable eyeballs, will be replaced with worthless straight returns if you don't insist otherwise.

Huh, I had the opposite experience. I didn't even think to ask about my straight returns, but my plaster company dug out the plaster and necessary gunite and added my new eyeballs. They even put one on my autofill port. When asked why for that one, the said it looks better that all the ports match! Now that's good service!!

Point is, even though you have no eyeballs now (oh, that sounds funny), they can be added during the replaster process. I also had my drains deleted (for looks, safety, and to solve a few other issues), so that is an option, too.