more pool leaks

jlhaz

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 18, 2007
99
#1
Hello everyone,

I'm pretty sure thepool is leaking again :( I thought it may have been evaporation but after being away for a few days with much cooler temps the water level dropped about 5.5 inches in the 3 days I was away.

Also yesterday I filled it up and at mid afternoon and by 9pm it was down about 1/4 and this morning down to about 1/2.

I left the pump off before I left just in case something like this happened and I'm glad I did!

The leak company already jackhammered a part of the deck and repaired a line there and regrouted the skimmer tile, the 2 places they found leaks before.

what else could be leaking? does it ever end?? :)

Thanks!
 

JasonLion

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
May 7, 2007
37,879
Silver Spring, MD
#2
Once it is finally completely fixed it will probably last for years. Untill then it can be annoying.

There are lots of possibilities. The first thing I would check is the work done recently. There is always the possibility that the repair was done incorrectly or broke something near where they were working. After that it could be just about anywhere. Look for an area of ground around the pool that is wetter than it should be or drips from a pipe, etc.
 

jlhaz

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 18, 2007
99
#3
There is actually a part of the yard that the grass grows more lately. I don't know if its from a pool problem or runoff rom the flower bed next to the pool. I guess we'll soon see.
 

waste

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Mar 29, 2007
4,160
Coastalish 'down easter'
#4
One other ? - are you heating the water? With the cooler temps, evaporation can 'possibly' take that amount (we had a pool a few years ago that was loosing ~1'/ day in April, we pressure tested the lines, did 'bucket tests' and all was fine until the pool was running -- turns out that they were heating the pool to ~ 90 deg when the air temps were still in the 40's at night :roll: )
 

jlhaz

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 18, 2007
99
#5
waste said:
One other ? - are you heating the water? With the cooler temps, evaporation can 'possibly' take that amount (we had a pool a few years ago that was loosing ~1'/ day in April, we pressure tested the lines, did 'bucket tests' and all was fine until the pool was running -- turns out that they were heating the pool to ~ 90 deg when the air temps were still in the 40's at night :roll: )
No, unfortunately the pool doesn't have a heater.

I noticed some loss with the bucket test, but was assuming is was because I had rocks in the bucket to hold it down, that was the reason the water level was higher in the bucket. Wishful thinking i'm sure :)
 

jlhaz

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 18, 2007
99
#6
I'm still investigating the source of the leak, but have a question in the meantime:

Can a Suction Side Leak cause water loss?

I'm still learning & still trying to understand! :)

Thanks!
 
Jul 3, 2007
69
Australia
#7
jlhaz said:
I'm still investigating the source of the leak, but have a question in the meantime:

Can a Suction Side Leak cause water loss?

I'm still learning & still trying to understand! :)

Thanks!
Hi,

You'll know if you have a suction side
leak...because your pump wont prime
properly and you will probably have
air bubbles coming out of where your
water return back to the pool through
the jets.

It is very unlikely that you'll have
a leak there.

Take Care,

Michael Silvester
 

JasonLion

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
May 7, 2007
37,879
Silver Spring, MD
#8
Yes, some suction side leaks can cause water loss when the pump is off. If a suction side leak is below water level it will leak when the pump is off and let air in when the pump is on.
 

jlhaz

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 18, 2007
99
#9
I do get a lot of bubbles coming out of the returns. Sometimes it seems like the water is "boiling" when the pump is on. It seemed to happen all of a sudden.

Also, the weekly pool guy told me that the pipe leading into the pump needed to be sealed again, but I'm getting a new filter installed in a few weeks so we are leaving it alone until then.

In trying to add all of the events up, I was wondering if that's what was causing the leak. I ran the pump all day & night last night and looked out this morning and saw that i am down about 1".

the leak company can't come out for another 3 weeks so I'm trying to gather all the clues I can :)
 

waste

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Mar 29, 2007
4,160
Coastalish 'down easter'
#10
The pool guy already identified a suction leak going into the pump - as a 'bandaid' you can use some silicone caulk to seal it until the guys come out to replace the filter - make sure that the area is completely dry before applying the caulk and let it set up before starting the pump (though turning on the pump for a couple of seconds would help suck the caulk into the leak, then let it cure)

The 'boiling' is the water cavitating, you've gotta get that stopped before it does real damage to the basket, influent and effluent fittings, and the seals - the water is ~boiling and the heat can warp all these parts!

If you're feeling energetic, you can dig up the greener area of the yard to expose the pipes and check for the leak (if you've had as little rain as we have, you may be reluctant to dig up the only section of green grass in the yard :p ) If you can find the leak, we will help you fix it yourself without having to pay the pro$
 
G
#11
waste said:
The pool guy already identified a suction leak going into the pump - as a 'bandaid' you can use some silicone caulk to seal it until the guys come out to replace the filter - make sure that the area is completely dry before applying the caulk and let it set up before starting the pump (though turning on the pump for a couple of seconds would help suck the caulk into the leak, then let it cure)

The 'boiling' is the water cavitating, you've gotta get that stopped before it does real damage to the basket, influent and effluent fittings, and the seals - the water is ~boiling and the heat can warp all these parts!

If you're feeling energetic, you can dig up the greener area of the yard to expose the pipes and check for the leak (if you've had as little rain as we have, you may be reluctant to dig up the only section of green grass in the yard :p ) If you can find the leak, we will help you fix it yourself without having to pay the pro$
i dont think he means HOT boiling, i think he meant if bubbles alot. which would happen if you had a suction air leak. :!:
 

jlhaz

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 18, 2007
99
#12
Right, thats what I mean...not heat wise but the water motion...

Just so I understand, since there is a suction side leak that was identified by the pool guy, I should try to seal that with some silicone caulk to stop the air leaking in and the water leaking out? The point where he told me it's leaking is where it connects to the pump.

BTW: Waste, i'm originally from Fairfield County, I just moved to AZ earlier this year :)
 

waste

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Mar 29, 2007
4,160
Coastalish 'down easter'
#13
Gentlemen, you support what I say whilst trying to refute it :!: (perhaps this should be moved to POOL SCHOOL, 'cause Professor Waste has entered the building :lol: )

The leak at the influent port was most probably caused by the existing suction leak and the cavitation it caused! Air being drawn into the pump from the line leak caused cavitation in the pump which generated A LOT of heat, enough to warp the male adapter screwed into the influent port which exacerbated the problem, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there is a leak at the effluent fitting and possibly some water dripping from the pump housing. We had a small collection of 'slagged' superpump baskets at the place I worked in Va, some were just slightly deformed, others has holes melted on the backside, and 1 was reduced to a 3" high lump of plastic! - all caused by the pump running too long with a bunch of air in it. (end of lecture :wink: )

J - I recommend the silicon caulk as a temp fix, to reduce the amt of air being entrained into the pump and thereby lessening the cavitation. Finding and fixing the leak will further protect the 'vulnerable' parts of the pump, hence the suggestion of digging in the most likely place to fix it. I think doing the caulk will let you 'limp on' until the pros can come.

Good luck with this and if you need more help, you know where to turn!

BTW you've probably had more rain the last couple of months than we have :shock: Hope all is good in AZ, though you probably don't have the foliage that we're starting to get - if you want a pic of changing trees, I'll post you one :angel:
 

jlhaz

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 18, 2007
99
#14
waste said:
Gentlemen, you support what I say whilst trying to refute it :!: (perhaps this should be moved to POOL SCHOOL, 'cause Professor Waste has entered the building :lol: )

The leak at the influent port was most probably caused by the existing suction leak and the cavitation it caused! Air being drawn into the pump from the line leak caused cavitation in the pump which generated A LOT of heat, enough to warp the male adapter screwed into the influent port which exacerbated the problem, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there is a leak at the effluent fitting and possibly some water dripping from the pump housing. We had a small collection of 'slagged' superpump baskets at the place I worked in Va, some were just slightly deformed, others has holes melted on the backside, and 1 was reduced to a 3" high lump of plastic! - all caused by the pump running too long with a bunch of air in it. (end of lecture :wink: )

J - I recommend the silicon caulk as a temp fix, to reduce the amt of air being entrained into the pump and thereby lessening the cavitation. Finding and fixing the leak will further protect the 'vulnerable' parts of the pump, hence the suggestion of digging in the most likely place to fix it. I think doing the caulk will let you 'limp on' until the pros can come.

Good luck with this and if you need more help, you know where to turn!

BTW you've probably had more rain the last couple of months than we have :shock: Hope all is good in AZ, though you probably don't have the foliage that we're starting to get - if you want a pic of changing trees, I'll post you one :angel:
Thanks for the info...I'm going to take a look at all of this!

Sure, if you have pictures I wouldn't mind seeing them for old times sake :)
 

jlhaz

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 18, 2007
99
#15
Update - I think i found the leak

Hey Everybody,

I think I located the leak. There is a return that seems to be pulled away from the concrete. It seemed to "pass" the food coloring test. After the water leaks down it seems to stop near the level of the returns

I've included a picture, let me know what you all think. Also, is it a pretty easy repair?

Thanks!

P.S. Ignore the horrible paint starting to bubble & peel...that project is coming up soon LOL
 

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waste

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Mar 29, 2007
4,160
Coastalish 'down easter'
#16
Said I'd post some pictures and I am, this is from Sunday's outing on Lake Zoar. The trees aren't really changing yet but it gives the idea (and if this works, I'll post some more pictures as the foliage 'develops' ) <center> [img]http://i219.photobuck...207/ProffesorDTC/ted1-1.jpg[/img] </center>

Do you see that lunker I caught?? (yeah, that's me with the little fish :party: ) I hope all is well with you
 

jlhaz

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 18, 2007
99
#18
Hey Everybody,

Just an update. I called another leak company. they came out and at first tried resealing the tile. that didn't work.

They sent a diver, and they are saying that they think the pool needs to be replastered because the shell of the pool doesn't look well (it was painted and is now peeling)

What is still strange is that the water leaks pretty quickly until just below the tile and then it slows dramatically.

Any suggestions? I'd bang my head against a wall but I know it would hurt too much! :) LOL
 

jlhaz

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 18, 2007
99
#19
Pool Finally fixed!

Hey Everyobdy,

Just wanted to say thanks so much for ALL the help. I FINALLY got the pool fixed. The light has been repaired, so there are no more leaks!

I also got my sand filter refilled with good sand and a new pressure guage. Now i'm ready to start using the BBB method! :)

Thanks again!