Minimum VSP Flow or RPM Setting for Pentair Master Temp 400 Heater

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
23,108
Bedford, TX
Rich,

I've been working with others and my brain has jet lag, so tell me again what is it we are trying to do.. :mrgreen:

If I remember correctly, you want to be able to turn on your heater and have it heat your pool. Are you wanting to schedule this to be done, or just turn in on when you feel like it??

I am not sure that 1600 RPM is fast enough to turn on your heater.. It may be, but it is right on the edge depending on your plumbing.

Look at the following "Spa" page.. In theory when the Heater icon is red and the red temperature (set point) is higher than the white temperature (water temperature) the gas heater contacts should be closed. Once the water temp gets up to the set point the contacts will open. The "SPA" icon must be green for the Spa to heat and/or the "POOL" icon must be green for the pool to heat.

What does you Pool page look like???




The EasyTouch does not have a clue if the speed of the pump is fast enough to turn on the heater.. If the pump is running too slowly, the EasyTouch will never know.

Show me the above page when you are trying to heat your pool.

If the two wire control is already removed from the gas heater connection, you can just measure the two pins on the gas heater connection.. You should get an open between the two pins when the EasyTouch is not calling for heat, and a short (zero ohms) when the EasyTouch is calling for heat. If you can toggle between an open and a short by adjusting the set point temperature then the EasyTouch is working fine.

Let me know what you can and we can go from there.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Rich807

Bronze Supporter
Jun 21, 2020
125
Las Vegas, NV
This stuff is ‘whenever’ to me, no need for thoughts / reply today!

At this point just trying to get some rational thought on how my stuff is set up in the automation. Not sure if when I reconfigured everything in the software if I did stupid things in labeling / assigning circuits that wouldn’t make sense to someone like yourself. & - if I should change them.

The heater only works when the Pump Low circuit is energized. Pump low was formally Filter Pump from the builder install. If we have any other circuits going heater won’t work. We now know that but I’m pretty sure what I did in regard to setting up the automation may be the wrong way to go about things.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
23,108
Bedford, TX
Rich,

You want the system to be in the Pool mode anytime the pump is running.. This should mean you can turn the heater on at any time...
Since you don't have a Spa, there should not be anytime that you should turn the pool mode off..

I suggest that you do a couple of things...

Unless you have a pressure or suction cleaner, I would change the Circuit Function of Pool-High from Master Cleaner to Generic..

Then, (This is just an example.. to show you how it works)

1. Schedule the Pool Circuit, (now Pool-Low) 1600 RPM to be on for the entire time you want the pump to run that day, no matter at what speed you want. Let's say 8 am until 8 pm

2. Schedule any speeds you want to automatically run "inside" the Pool-Low schedule.. Let's say Vac-Pool (2150 RPM) 12 pm until 1 pm

3. If you want, schedule Pool-High to run at 3 pm until 4 pm at 2450 RPM...

Here is what will happen...

At 8 am the pump will come on and run at 1600 RPM until 12 pm when the speed will increase to 2150.. At 1 pm the speed will drop back to 1600 until 3 pm when the speed will increase to 2450. At 4 pm the speed will drop back to 1600. The pump will then shut off at 8 pm.. The pump will come back on at 8 am..

This means the system was in the Pool mode for the entire time.

NEVER use the Pool icon to shut off the pump.. you also should never need to use the Pool icon to turn on the pump. If you want the shut off the pump to do maintenance put the system in the Service mode. You should NEVER have to use the "F" button on the main panel to turn the pump on or off.

You should be able to manually turn on your waterfall at anytime and the system should stay in the Pool mode.

You could if you want schedule the waterfall to run for a few minute each day to keep the water fresh.. You would do this "inside" the schedule for Pool-low.

Please see if this makes any sense.. If not we can talk about it tomorrow..

I am not sure how your Pump-High button works, as you have an EasyTouch 4, so the Aux4 button should not do anything.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Rich807

Bronze Supporter
Jun 21, 2020
125
Las Vegas, NV
Was trying to do 2 things when I started to play w/the programming...

- Get varied pump speed settings to run on a schedule
- Assign buttons on the panel to help the Mrs, friends etc that may need to operate basic pool equipment/features wi/out having much knowledge about the pool stuff &/or having app access.

Labeling the aux4 button on the panel was just a visual reminder out at the panel that I had added/assigned a high pump run speed option to that circuit—even though it could only be activated via ‘button’ on the app

Whats the issue with pressing selections at the panel outside of being in ‘service mode’ first?
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
23,108
Bedford, TX
Rich,

My post number #45 shows just what you need to do to run a set of schedules that change the pump speeds at different times. The two main things to remember are that slowest speed needs to run the entire time the pump will be running. Normally this would be the Pool Circuit no matter what you named it. And that when the pump sees two schedules at the same time it will always run the fastest one.

If you turn any scheduled item on or off manually, depending on when you do it, it will screw up the schedule and will often skip the next schedule. It will then catch up the next day. I did not invent it, I am just reporting how it works.

The main item that I don't recommend turning on or off is the Pool mode icon or the pump/filter ("F") button on the panel..

Since you can run an IntelliFlo at a low RPM for about $20 bucks a month, there is just no reason to not allow the pump to run all day or more. This also gives you better skimming..

That said, it is your pool and you can run it anyway you see fit. :)

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Rich807

Bronze Supporter
Jun 21, 2020
125
Las Vegas, NV
Rich,

My post number #45 shows just what you need to do to run a set of schedules that change the pump speeds at different times. The two main things to remember are that slowest speed needs to run the entire time the pump will be running. Normally this would be the Pool Circuit no matter what you named it. And that when the pump sees two schedules at the same time it will always run the fastest one.

If you turn any scheduled item on or off manually, depending on when you do it, it will screw up the schedule and will often skip the next schedule. It will then catch up the next day. I did not invent it, I am just reporting how it works.

The main item that I don't recommend turning on or off is the Pool mode icon or the pump/filter ("F") button on the panel..

Since you can run an IntelliFlo at a low RPM for about $20 bucks a month, there is just no reason to not allow the pump to run all day or more. This also gives you better skimming..

That said, it is your pool and you can run it anyway you see fit. :)

Thanks,

Jim R.
Think I got things more straightened out in the programming dept now. Big thanks.

Not adversed to running pump 24/7 but seems like the min speed I need to run my setup in order to get a tad of continuous water flowing over the weir door is around 1,450rpms @ 148 watts indicated. That seems like a high rpm compared to a lot of other folks’ listed min speed for flowage over their weir doors.

Solar blanket continuously on pool all Spring, early summer, & late summer. Not much vegetation around my hood so debris like leaves is a very small issue the majority of the time = skimming not a big deal most of the year for us.

150w consumption 22+hrs a day a biggie or no would you guys say? I’d like to find a good balance between pump life & power consumption.
 
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Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
23,108
Bedford, TX
Rich,

As a ballpark estimate, pools without a heater can usually run at about 1100 or 1200 RPM and still skim well..

Identical pools that have heaters tend to need to run at 1500 to 1800 RPM..

I don't see your 1450 RPM as being out of line at all.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

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Rich807

Bronze Supporter
Jun 21, 2020
125
Las Vegas, NV
Curious if the higher rpm requirement for setups with heaters is due to longer runs of plumbing or something restrictive in the heaters themselves that necessitates more spin to get water over a typical weir door?
 
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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,066
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
something restrictive in the heaters themselves that necessitates more spin to get water over a typical weir door?

This, sort of.

The heater heat exchanger restricts the flow and you need more RPMs to push thew ater through the heater to the returns. Also heaters require 30-40 gpm of flow. Without the heater you have little flow requriements.
 
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