Might it be worth it to try "Baquacil Line Clean"? I just don't understand why my starting pressure is so high....

anthonypool89

Gold Supporter
Aug 26, 2016
548
Berks County, PA
Let's look at this problem from a different angle other than the idea of simply converting to chlorine (which I am strongly considering.) Given that, even after I've put in a chemically cleaned filter, the starting pressure is considerably higher than what it always used to be (today was close to 14 - typically over the years has been no more than 11), COULD that account for the short filter cycles I've been experiencing? If the range of operating pressure is only from around 14 to 20 - at which point it's time to backwash again because of hardly having any flow - this could be a big part of the problem. The water is absolutely clear, and has usually been over the past several years, but I seem to get an unusually quick accumulation of mold along the walls and bottom. This, along with the unusually high starting pressure, leads me to wonder if the lines are severely clogged.

So, I've been looking at this "Baquacil Line Clean". I know some of these products require vacuuming to waste, which is something I can't do. I don't believe this product calls for that but am doing further research on it. The MSDS shows the following: Potassium Peroxymonosulfate 43%, Potassium Peroxydisulfate 3%, Potassium Bisulfate 23%, and Potassium Sulfate 29%. For some reason, peroxymonosulfate sounds very familiar so I want to look through everything I use and see if this same ingredient shows up.

Thanks for any suggestions - thought this might be worth a shot.
 

Teald024

TFP Guide
The water is absolutely clear, and has usually been over the past several years, but I seem to get an unusually quick accumulation of mold along the walls and bottom.

Clear except for mold.... 🤮. Your lines aren’t clogged, the filter is doing its job filtering out the crud and mold from the water. As the grids fill up, the pressure goes up.
the chemicals listed above are MPS, a non-chlorine shock. Nothing new, but not recommended.
 
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anthonypool89

Gold Supporter
Aug 26, 2016
548
Berks County, PA
"Clear except for mold"...ha ha...I'm laughing hysterically ☹ The thing is - the pressure has never been this high to start. I'm going to try the line cleaner - nothing to lose. If no change, at least it rules out that possibility of it being at least partly due to whatever may be in the lines and constantly accumulating. One of my theories is that the two additional products I use -Aqua Finesse and Ahhsome - both of which are designed to free the lines of these organic contaminants - are perhaps helping to clear stuff out of the lines and, if so, it winds up in the filter nearly immediately. When I add the aqua finesse tablets, the pressure goes up within an hour - as much as 2 lbs. Then, sometimes, in a day or two, it temporarily drops back down.

All I know is - something is different this season. I've had issues with occasional cloudy water over the many years I've been using biguanide but then, I'd say over the past 3-4 years the water has generally been clear. Only towards the end of last season and now all of this season am I seeing this rapid filter pressure increase. Anyway, it's worth a shot. I still say that no product out there has taken the place of Soft Swim Assist for users of baquacil in helping to control any growth of mold and slime. Another factor is that, as the water warms, the problem is generally increased. My water temp is getting close to 90 at this point. I should probably experiment with using the chill feature on the heat pump just to see if that might have any effect.

If the season continues as is, then I need to decide to either convert to chlorine with my existing DE filter, or continue with biguanide but switch to sand.
 
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anthonypool89

Gold Supporter
Aug 26, 2016
548
Berks County, PA

This also refers to mold being in the lines. Makes sense to me.
 

YippeeSkippy

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 17, 2012
14,408
Evans, Georgia
Whats that saying about the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing that fails over and over expecting different response?

Yeah....that's all I see here. Bacqua is failing you and you're afraid to change. Isn't it tiresome? Or not yet after all these years?
 

Newdude

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2019
4,347
NY
If the season continues as is, then I need to decide to either convert to chlorine with my existing DE filter, or continue with biguanide but switch to sand
All 3 filters can handle both pools. The crud clogging the filter means the filter is doing its job properly. The Baquacil is the problem.

You are experiencing what most people who exclusively use the pool store end up with. A bunch of potions that you didn't need made things worse. Now its so bad a few years in, your only real choice is to drain and start over. Doing so will fool you again for the next 3-4 years thinking that the potions are working until they build up too much and you have to drain again.
 

Teald024

TFP Guide
This also refers to mold being in the lines. Makes sense to me.
the original poster of that thread came back 5 years later and stated the results were only temporary and the solution that worked was chlorine.... As has everyone else who switched from bacqua to chlorine.
you keep trying to band-aid the symptoms but refuse to use the cure to your problems. I don’t understand why you are still willing to throw your time and money away with no real chance to succeed. Especially when the solution is so obvious to everyone else, including those who have been in your exact predicament before.
 

anthonypool89

Gold Supporter
Aug 26, 2016
548
Berks County, PA
OK...I get it already. At least the line cleaner option is something I've never tried before, and so worth it. WWM is typically associated with cloudy water - and often has been for me, but that's not really the case since using the two extra products. This is what's driving me crazy - crystal clear water but still having build-up of mold. I think it'd be easier to accept the idea of converting back to chlorine if the water didn't look so good.
 

anthonypool89

Gold Supporter
Aug 26, 2016
548
Berks County, PA
the original poster of that thread came back 5 years later and stated the results were only temporary and the solution that worked was chlorine.... As has everyone else who switched from bacqua to chlorine.
you keep trying to band-aid the symptoms but refuse to use the cure to your problems. I don’t understand why you are still willing to throw your time and money away with no real chance to succeed. Especially when the solution is so obvious to everyone else, including those who have been in your exact predicament before.
I was wondering if this poster ever reported a follow-up. I see that what I quoted was, at the time anyway, the only message he ever posted. Do you have a link to what you're referring to?
 

anthonypool89

Gold Supporter
Aug 26, 2016
548
Berks County, PA
You are swimming in mold water!
Well, can't be any worse than what's in a lake or the ocean. Nicest looking mold water around, I'll bet. 😃 If it wasn't for the short filter cycles that are developing, I'd probably just continue, but I know I can't keep doing all this work every 7 days or so. Still considering the sand / baqua option. Awaiting a return call from a friend of mine who has been using biguanide as long as I have, and reports virtually NO issues with mold. The pool store claims they've been telling me "for years that I have to switch to sand if I want to keep using baqua.". I recall occasional discussion but they're exaggerating a bit.
 
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Newdude

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2019
4,347
NY
Well, can't be any worse than what's in the ocean
So this is a great point and it made me wonder how many gallons are in the Atlantic ocean by us to dillute whatever is in it. Per google its 82 billion billion gallons. That is rather dilluted. Your 12.5k is not so much.
 

Leebo

Admin
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 21, 2011
9,934
Eastern Ohio
I am willing to help any user out as it’s my total goal to help point users into the direction of an amazing pool experience. Users here on TFP have drove for hours to deliver test supplies to strangers, they’ve made phone calls at 1am to strangers across the country who needed some extra hand holding, they’ve spent countless hours diving over every hurdle that can be tossed their way to help pool owners maintain an amazing pool in a simple manner.

Everybody here is trying to do that for you. Every problem you’re describing is a side effect of Baquacil. We’ve seen it over and over. I personally have experienced it over and over. Tossing “new chemicals” has failed you at every step. While your water does look amazing, it’s causing you massive amounts of headaches and I’d hate to see your chemical bills each month.

Let me toss this comment out as if my memory serves correct you’re on a well. Your filter will clog up regardless if you have sand or DE. Yes sand may take an extra day or two, but it’s gonna clog up. Then you’ll need to backflush using your pool water. You’ll refill taxing your well. This is going to happen rather frequently, I promise.

The reason your friend (assuming he’s using sand) isn’t seeing mold is because he’s replacing his water frequently. Save yourself a few hundred bucks on a new filter if you wanna take the Baqua/Sand approach. Just drain the pool yearly and you’ll avoid mold.

@anthonypool89
I know I sound very harsh in this post, I greatly hate seeing you put yourself in such a poor position. While Baqua is an acceptable chemical in certain conditions it’s just not a realistic product for the huge majority of users. Every issue you’re mentioning is one we’ve seen countless times before. I personally have experienced them before.

I suspect you know how to fix so many of your problems, I just haven’t learned what’s holding you back. I’d love to hear why there’s such a wall you’ve put up against TFPC. You’ve shown you’re willing to try new products, even some you’ve used in the past in hope that you’ll get a different result. Why the fear of a product called chlorine?
 
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pookiesunshine

Gold Supporter
May 12, 2016
580
Cincinnati, OH
@anthony, several more comments in no direct order:
1. Switching to sand filter will likely be a short term improvement. i had mold/slime after switching to sand.
2. Have you chemically cleaned your DE filter grids? I had the old style tentacles/fingers and after multiple power washes they would still clog more quickly. it became too much for me, which is why i went to sand.
3. Line Clean worked for me to clear up mold/slime problem---temporarily. It always came back. Since you are already using finesse/ahhsome, i'm not sure it will do much more for you. When i was using line clean, i was not aware of those products.

good luck
 
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anthonypool89

Gold Supporter
Aug 26, 2016
548
Berks County, PA
The reason your friend (assuming he’s using sand) isn’t seeing mold is because he’s replacing his water frequently. Save yourself a few hundred bucks on a new filter if you wanna take the Baqua/Sand approach. Just drain the pool yearly and you’ll avoid mold.
To the best of my knowledge he's never replaced the water other than having to replace the liner one time in the 30 years he's had the pool. And, he just said this season is the first he's ever actually seen any WWM.

I know everyone is trying to help, and please know how much I appreciate that. It's a comforting thought that if I do decide to go back to chlorine, so many here will be willing to help! I would never refill the pool from the well. The water was last drained in '14 at which time the pool was completely renovated. Problems with mold showed up two years later, so I don't quite buy into changing the water as being a panacea. My friend just indicated that he is backwashing more frequently than usual and having the sand replaced this week, but did claim that other than this season has typically had clear water and, as I said, has never seen this mold until just recently.

I don't think of it so much as a "wall" that I've put up in the way of resistance TO chlorine and using household products instead of poolstore -packaged ones, but moreso that the idea of using chlorine just doesn't appeal to me. Neither my wife nor I really like the idea of swimming in it. My friend and I just shared this same concern in our conversation an hour ago (said HIS wife would probably divorce him if he went back to using chlorine LOL) . He feels the same way relative to past experience with chlorine, which was, for both of us, primarily negative- the main one being the seemingly endless "chlorine demand" situation that we were told we were in by the pool store. Both of us got tired of being told we'd now need to add some outrageously increasing amount in order to hold a reading (as in like 80 pounds towards the end, and before we both gave up on it). I assume that today's chlorine is NOT what it was back in '99 - it was the old Bio Guard "Stingy Sticks" (smell practically killed you - in my case the correct dosage called to cut them in half even!! When I used to cut those things...wow...overwhelmingly strong smell!) Then it was the endless bags of "burnout". Had to keep readings and couldn't swim in the pool until the chlorine came back down to a certain level. That is, probably unfairly, mentally where I'm still "at" with regards to it. I guess I'm probably unfairly basing my current thoughts (on going back to it) on what it was like back then.

Yet another factor is that I still think we're suffering from a problem that is, in part at least, environmental rather than solely taking place as a consequence of water chemistry. I refer to being very close to these farm fields. In a climate change environment, and moister conditions, isn't it more likely that this saprolegnia (which causes WWM), and who knows whatever else, is increasingly likely to become airborne and wind up in the water? That's just a theory I have. A mere 24 hours after the cutting, raking, and hay-baling a few weeks ago, the pool was suddenly so mold-infested (or something else?) that I couldn't even see the 2nd step. Then, a few days later, clear. Same exact thing happened last year - I checked back and have it recorded in my notes.

So if I do convert back to chlorine, it'll be considered an experiment initially.
 
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anthonypool89

Gold Supporter
Aug 26, 2016
548
Berks County, PA
2. Have you chemically cleaned your DE filter grids?
Yes...frequently. This is why I bought an extra set of grids two years ago so that I could alternate them - keeping one that has always been cleaned available. That way I don't have to take the pool out of service for the 24+ hours that it takes (I remove the grids from the tank and soak them in a large plastic bucket). I always figured it does no good to have the pool not running (or at least not filtering) for the length of time that it takes to accomplish the chemical cleaning.
 

anthonypool89

Gold Supporter
Aug 26, 2016
548
Berks County, PA
No problem! He's had sand since he had the pool installed - about the same time we did - '89 He just told me in our talk this afternoon that, as a total novice, he had no idea as to DE or Sand. The local pool told him this is what he should go with (sand) so he's had it ever since. You'll be happy to know that just as your post showed up I've been reading the "how to convert" section and also about "liquid chlorine". Don't lose faith in me just yet 😉 I also want to know what the substitute products are for the usual pH increaser and decreases. If I'm correct, one of them is baking soda? If I'd do this, how much of these household products is needed in comparison to, for instance, adding a pound of pool store pH decreaser or increaser?