Mesh versus single bond wire under new deck

[Sharelick]

We are gut renovating our ~25 year old deck and poo, but I’m getting conflicting advice on how to bond the pool and equipment.
We have a 20’ x 40’ IG vinyl liner pool that sits in a polymer shell, with plastic stairs and swim outs. Within 5’ of the pool there will be new steel handrails, a diving board, grommets for the winter cover and a natural stone deck with a stone coping that overlaps the pool. There is an existing pool pad with Hayward SWG, cartridge filter, VSP, and gas heater.
Previously the old concrete “cool” deck was removed and we had all our lines, skimmers, eyelets and the two lights replaced. Next they are due to dig then place 6-8” of new stone gravel. But they are waiting for the electrician to finish with the bonding before they plan to start (electrician is not supplied by the decking company).
The deck company said we need to install a wire mesh around the pool for bonding if using pavers or stone instead of stamped concrete (I know that’s the case for Gunite pools) but I believe I only need a standard bond wire with my setup since it’s non-conductive. Is that right, or does having natural stone change this?
I’m also questioning if there should be poured concrete under the coping stones instead of packed gravel but maybe that’s a question for another thread.

 

[ajw22]

First of all you should check what your local codes and inspectors require.

The NEC says a bonding wire, properly installed, is around the deck perimeter is adequate.

Wire mesh provides a better deck bonding then a bonding wire.

Do you have a water bond?

 

[Bperry]

We are gut renovating our ~25 year old deck and poo, but I’m getting conflicting advice on how to bond the pool and equipment.
We have a 20’ x 40’ IG vinyl liner pool that sits in a polymer shell, with plastic stairs and swim outs. Within 5’ of the pool there will be new steel handrails, a diving board, grommets for the winter cover and a natural stone deck with a stone coping that overlaps the pool. There is an existing pool pad with Hayward SWG, cartridge filter, VSP, and gas heater.
Previously the old concrete “cool” deck was removed and we had all our lines, skimmers, eyelets and the two lights replaced. Next they are due to dig then place 6-8” of new stone gravel. But they are waiting for the electrician to finish with the bonding before they plan to start (electrician is not supplied by the decking company).
The deck company said we need to install a wire mesh around the pool for bonding if using pavers or stone instead of stamped concrete (I know that’s the case for Gunite pools) but I believe I only need a standard bond wire with my setup since it’s non-conductive. Is that right, or does having natural stone change this?
I’m also questioning if there should be poured concrete under the coping stones instead of packed gravel but maybe that’s a question for another thread.

It’s anecdotal, but lots of the weird “shock” issues seem to happen on vinyl liners rather than gunite. (Doesn’t mean they all do). My point is more that the non-conductive walls don’t seem to avoid the issue. I’d use whatever solution was better rather than trying to stay at the minimum requirement.

 

[Sharelick]

First of all you should check what your local codes and inspectors require.

The NEC says a bonding wire, properly installed, is around the deck perimeter is adequate.

Wire mesh provides a better deck bonding then a bonding wire.

Do you have a water bond?

The inspector told our pool remodeler we dont need mesh. (I’m not sure if that’s bc of the “non-conductive pool” or that we are grandfathered in.

We do have a 9” water bond in the light casings/housings.

Obviously I want what is best for my family and not to have to rip up a new deck to find a stray current. But how are people getting shocked on the deck? Is that from standing water in puddles, or is this just a lightning issue? My issue is my normal electrician wants to outsource the job to do the mesh and the last quote he got was for $16,000. (My friend had his mesh done last year for $2000, so obviously something is off there.) Plus it might delay the job a month or more.

 

[Bperry]

The inspector told our pool remodeler we dont need mesh. (I’m not sure if that’s bc of the “non-conductive pool” or that we are grandfathered in.

We do have a 9” water bond in the light casings/housings.

Obviously I want what is best for my family and not to have to rip up a new deck to find a stray current. But how are people getting shocked on the deck? Is that from standing water in puddles, or is this just a lightning issue? My issue is my normal electrician wants to outsource the job to do the mesh and the last quote he got was for $16,000. (My friend had his mesh done last year for $2000, so obviously something is off there.) Plus it might delay the job a month or more.

The friend I have with the issue is when they touch the deck while also touching the pool water or a metal hand railing. He has a cantilever deck

$16k is a ridiculous quote.

 

[ajw22]

Yeah, something is off with the $16K quote.

This is what is used…

 

[ajw22]

CBM310K 100' wire mesh roll is $900.

https://www.unitedelectric.com/buy/product/GRVCBM310K-GREAVES/316357

 

[Sharelick]

The friend I have with the issue is when they touch the deck while also touching the pool water or a metal hand railing. He has a cantilever deck

$16k is a ridiculous quote.

Did your friend figure out where the current is coming from? If it’s both the pool water and the hand rail that completes the circuit, I wonder if the bond wire itself that is carrying the charge. What happens if they’re in the pool and touch the handrail without touching the deck?

 

[Bperry]

Did your friend figure out where the current is coming from? If it’s both the pool water and the hand rail that completes the circuit, I wonder if the bond wire itself that is carrying the charge. What happens if they’re in the pool and touch the handrail without touching the deck?

I don’t know that he’s done much experimentation other than tell the kids not to do whatever it is they’re doing that makes it happen. He’s tried to feel it from outside the pool but didn’t feel anything.

 

[Sharelick]

CBM310K 100' wire mesh roll is $900.

https://www.unitedelectric.com/buy/product/GRVCBM310K-GREAVES/316357

I ended up going with a bond wire and ran it three times around the pool in case some of it got damaged.
I don’t know if that needs grounding rods also

 

[TKpoolOH]

I ended up going with a bond wire and ran it three times around the pool in case some of it got damaged.
I don’t know if that needs grounding rods also

We did not do grounding rods on the pool we just built. I never came across anything that said it was necessary for the pool, and my electrician who has wired a few hundred pools didn't say anything about potentially adding them. We did redo them for the house breaker panel though when we expanded that. As referenced above though, it all depends upon your local code and NEC 680.

Off topic, but curious, how deep is your 20x40 pool if it's 40K gallons? That's a lot!

 

[BMerrill]

The bonding wire should be tied to the pool water, metal around the pool, metal supports in the concrete for ladders and diving board, and the wire should terminate/include the pool pump and heater. Equipotential bonding is intended to reduce voltage gradients in the area around a permanently installed pool. Grounding is not the same as bonding. Bonding requires no grounding rods and is not tied directly to the grounding system of the dwelling.

Best and most reliable information on NEC requirements including bonding. See page 18 of Mike Holt on Swimming pools and spas