Looking For Help With Heat Pump Plumbing

[swimspaguyy11]

Hi, I just got a heat pump to replace my broken gas heater and I have the skill to do the electrical but not so much the plumbing. I was supposed to have a plumber do it but he cancelled until late next week and we are in the middle of a cold spell in my area so I would love to use it. It looks simple enough but I need some guidance.

I bought a new check valve as this one is old and there is no pipe to put a coupler on. The 3 way valve is about 7 years old, should I replace it? It has enough pipe on all 3 sides I could reuse it with couplers.

Unfortunately I dont think there is enough clearance to cut at the blue lines and then build the bypass manifold and connect to the heat pump. I could move the heat pump to the right in the photo more but then it wouldnt have as good of clearance on all sides.

I was thinking I should cut at the red lines, then attach right angles to raise it up to the height of the heat pump unions and then build the manifold horitzontally and then connect.

I think my biggest issue doing this kind of plumbing and what I had an issue with when it came to the SWG install (it ended up a little crooked but worked) is that a) the glue sets up so fast that i have no time to get it all straight, and obviously this bypass manifold needs to be straight.

Any guidance or tips would be appreciated, especially the order I should build and glue things. Like should I make the manifold seperate first or start from the left and work my way right?

I figure one thing that helps is that thhe pipes appear to be the correct width for the unions on the heat pump and also i can move the heat pump around if needed to get it to fit.

Thanks

 

[PoolGate]

Plumbing is somewhat of an art. You don't need the one-way valve with a SWG so you can remove that for good. Really it is just getting the plumbing to line up and fit properly without stressing it due to poor fitment.

 

[1poolman1]

CircuPool recommends a check valve after the heater before the cell in their manual. Likely, you wouldn't need a bypass either, but you could definitely reuse that valve and save the cost if you put it in, its not one that gets used much and is probably like new internally.

 

[swimspaguyy11]

Well this project is a lot easier if I can throw out the bypass, then I dont need to build the manifold and its just a straight shot with a couple of elbows into the heater.

I know at the moment the bypass came in handy. It let me disconnect the heater and still have the pool function. Although, its not something I will need often hopefully!

You guys kind of contradicted each other though about the check valve I could easily add the check valve without the bypass, but tbh i thought the entire point of the check valve was for the bypass.

 

[1poolman1]

Well this project is a lot easier if I can throw out the bypass, then I dont need to build the manifold and its just a straight shot with a couple of elbows into the heater.

I know at the moment the bypass came in handy. It let me disconnect the heater and still have the pool function. Although, its not something I will need often hopefully!

You guys kind of contradicted each other though about the check valve I could easily add the check valve without the bypass, but tbh i thought the entire point of the check valve was for the bypass.

For your installation the check valve was, most likely, for the bypass and allowed you to continue circulation without a heater in place (one of the only reasons I can see the need, but that's just my experience). The contradiction on it for an SWG is from page 13 of the CircuPool manual, not me.

 

[swimspaguyy11]

For your installation the check valve was, most likely, for the bypass and allowed you to continue circulation without a heater in place (one of the only reasons I can see the need, but that's just my experience). The contradiction on it for an SWG is from page 13 of the CircuPool manual, not me.

Thanks 1Poolman1, I also checked the full manual I have, I do see it in the picture but it doesnt say it's required. That picture seems to show a lot of options, I asssumed so that every likely scenario was covered. In that picture it appears the check valve is for a bypass.

In your opinion, is there any real reason to have the check valve without the bypass? If i can eliminate the bypass I can plumb this up quite easily as I can just cut from the rising pipes and connect via that short distance. It allows me to avoid having to cut further back. The only reason I was going to do that was to fit the check valve and bypass.

My heat pump manual says a bypass is not required btw.

If I ever have to disconnect the heater I can buy a couple unions and make a simple loop with them I guess.

Thanks

 

[PoolGate]

It is more clear if you understand the reason for the check valve. They are used to prevent acidic water from chlorine puck feeders from backing up into your heater when the pump is turned off which can damage the heat exchanger. Puck feeders always are dissolving chlorine pucks even when there is no flow. They are not needed with a SWG since the SWG only generates chlorine when the pump is running. They should not really be trusted to prevent water from leaking when a bypass valve is in use. Although I can see in your setup how this reacts. Your manual covers all bases so they may say simply to use one. It doesn't hurt, it just isn't necessary. As far as bypasses are concerned, keep in mind if you use one, while the heater is bypassed, the water in the heater is getting stagnant. I am not a fan at all of using heater bypasses for any reason. Correctly balanced water will prevent your heater from being damaged by your pool water.

 

[swimspaguyy11]

It is more clear if you understand the reason for the check valve. They are used to prevent acidic water from chlorine puck feeders from backing up into your heater when the pump is turned off which can damage the heat exchanger. Puck feeders always are dissolving chlorine pucks even when there is no flow. They are not needed with a SWG since the SWG only generates chlorine when the pump is running. They should not really be trusted to prevent water from leaking when a bypass valve is in use. Although I can see in your setup how this reacts. Your manual covers all bases so they may say simply to use one. It doesn't hurt, it just isn't necessary. As far as bypasses are concerned, keep in mind if you use one, while the heater is bypassed, the water in the heater is getting stagnant. I am not a fan at all of using heater bypasses for any reason. Correctly balanced water will prevent your heater from being damaged by your pool water.

Thanks much, that insight is very helpful. That makes a lot of sense. You just saved me a lot of work, without the bypass or the check valve it makes this so much easier. I think I am going to return the check valve and get my $25 back rather than just throwing it in because I already have it. If there is no point, it's just one more thing to possibly fail down the road plus it appears it definitely adds a flow restriction.

 

[pjt]

Amongst other reasons, I would definitely recommend an external bypass for the efficiency gained while the heat pump isn't being used.

 

[PoolGate]

Amongst other reasons, I would definitely recommend an external bypass for the efficiency gained while the heat pump isn't being used.

This may sound good in theory, but what efficiencies do you think are to be gained? A heat pump is typically set and forget. So during the season, it maintains its set point, cycling on and off as needed. Unless you have an automated valve somehow inserted into the heater circuit (perhaps a macro?) you'd have to manually switch the bypass to enable the heater to run when called upon (every time). Sorry I am just not seeing any benefit at all for the bypass.

 

[pjt]

what efficiencies do you think are to be gained?

If not using the heat pump, more water is moved using less electricity when the bypass is active.

A heat pump is typically set and forget. So during the season, it maintains its set point, cycling on and off as needed.

In Maryland, that may be the case. In my area, I use the heat pump occasionally to heat in the spring and fall. I also use it to chill the water for a few days in the peak heat of summer. Other than that, the heat pump is off and the bypass is active the vast majority of the time.

you'd have to manually switch the bypass to enable the heater to run when called upon (every time).

The bypass is continuously closed when heating/chilling is enabled.

 

[1poolman1]

Thanks 1Poolman1, I also checked the full manual I have, I do see it in the picture but it doesnt say it's required. That picture seems to show a lot of options, I asssumed so that every likely scenario was covered. In that picture it appears the check valve is for a bypass.

In your opinion, is there any real reason to have the check valve without the bypass? If i can eliminate the bypass I can plumb this up quite easily as I can just cut from the rising pipes and connect via that short distance. It allows me to avoid having to cut further back. The only reason I was going to do that was to fit the check valve and bypass.

My heat pump manual says a bypass is not required btw.

If I ever have to disconnect the heater I can buy a couple unions and make a simple loop with them I guess.

Thanks

CircuPool (with which I am not very familiar as they are not available through distribution here) and CMP PowerClean (formerly SGS Breeze) systems are the only ones I have seen that show a check valve in their suggested plumbing. I have installed many Hayward systems without them, but I have installed several CMP systems and always use a check valve. That way if there is an issue they can't blame it on an improper installation. Being in business makes that a necessity. Just like all the 2- and variable-speed laws that went into effect here 16 years ago, the homeowner can do whatever they wish, I can't.

Having a heater bypass appears to be an "East of the Rockies" thing that is virtually never done here (only seen it once in 30+ years and the owner was very happy when I removed it so he could truly use his automation). May have started with winterizing, which also isn't done here.
My system has never had one. For a while I had no heater, but when I finally replaced mine it had no bypass and there was no difference in water quality through the slightly less circulation caused by the new heater.

Heater schools here always recommended that they not be used, unless the heater is completely drained when bypassed, as what water that is left in the heat exchanger will evaporate and leave deposits inside that will, eventually, reduce the heating capacity and waterflow. Scoop up a glass of pool water (in a glass you don't really want), let it evaporate and you will see the amount of "stuff" that is left. Imagine a few years of that accumulating in the heat exchanger. It works as an insulator, not able to transfer heat well.

 

[proavia]

The other benefits of the by-pass:

• There is less restriction when by-passing the heater/heat pump. Less restriction means better flow at a given pump rpm. With a VS pump, you can lower the rpm and still have the same flow rate when by-passing the heater/heat pump rather than running the water only thru the heater/heat pump. Lower rpm on a VS pump equates to lower electric usage/cost.
• The SWG flow switch requires a certain flow for the flow switch to activate. Again, better flow at a lower rpm when by-passing the heater/heat pump.

 

[swimspaguyy11]

Well too late for the bypass debate, I successfully installed the heat pump yesterday and didnt use one. It made the job a lot easier (and was still challenging to get everything lined up perfectly). I had to raise the heat pump up another inch or two using 4 paver stones on top of the pad. The line coming from the filter going into the heater is a lot higher than the one coming out of the heater and just adding a 90 made it too tall. I sat there for a while trying to figure out how I could plumb it to lower it in such a short linear space and then realized it was going to be a lot easier to just raise the heater up a couple inches on pavers.

I don't think the bypass would be very helpful for winterizing in my case, or at least I cant see how.

In my case, at the moment I dont think the heater is adding much restriction because its a 2in heat exchanger and all my pool plumbing is 1.5in. I had to use reducer bushings. Plus the brand says in the manual an external bypass isnt required. Perhaps when I eventually redo all the plumbing (I hope to add a 2nd skimmer and change all the lines to 2in when I redo the pool decking) I will add a bypass for the reasons mentioned. There are times of the year where I dont need the heater for a full month or so.

Also really good point about the stale water in the heater. I actually was worried when I enabled my bypass after I changed the pool to salt water, that the salt water is just sitting in the old gas heater leaving behind all sorts of salt deposits.\

I did the electrical last night and it's running great. So far I am pretty happy with it, it's a Gulf Stream HE150. It's way way lighter than the Rheem 8250 and seems to be just as powerful. It seems well made, lots of made in USA parts inside and an LG compressor.

PS. Yes I had a brain fart and primed the outside of the union, oops.

 

[PoolGate]

Great job! Now get some heat in that pool!

 

[swimspaguyy11]

Great job! Now get some heat in that pool!

Already done! went from 77F to 82F over night

It helped that it was a warm night in the 70s.